Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[Shane Heard]

You sure do think about Adelaide a lot Shane.

Not really

 

[JimmyBC]

Not really

For a place you think is irrelevant you prattle on m7.

 

[Astro35]

Complaining about not being able to go to physically to the Grand Final is different to having the Grand Final always played at one venue. They are not the same thing. If the Grand Final was at the Adelaide Oval every year, I could still go every year. All I need to do is buy a ticket and get on a plane.



It's not "locked away" from people like you being able to attend. If you try to get tickets through the normal channels (which is difficult, admittedly, whether the Grand Final is at the MCG or Adelaide Oval) you are able to attend the Grand Final at the MCG every single year. All you need to do is buy a ticket and get on a plane or drive over. Outside of Covid, there are no border restrictions and no reason (if you can get a ticket) to not be able to go to the game.

You act like the game at the MCG being a one hour flight away from where you live somehow stops you being able to go. As if Melbourne is located in a separate Universe, that, under normal circumstances, no one else can travel to.

This just shows so little understanding of the reality of the situation. Idk why anyone is trying to explain just how unfair and parochial it is - people like this are so entitled they will never see anyones point of view, other than their own.

 

[theyellowsash]

It never ceases to amaze me how non victorians don't actually understand the term corruption

 

[Purple Suit]

It never ceases to amaze me how non victorians don't actually understand the term corruption

“dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.”

So, exactly what took place by extending the contract without tendering it. The AFL needs to look after it’s members, not just Victoria.

 

[Ricketz]

Come back when you have a 100,000 seat stadium that you can fill every year for it.

Or, by the way, a stadium that can take those numbers you’re listing for the big games. Because right now Richmond have 100k members, Collingwood have around that, Carlton have 80k.

The benefits of having a huge supporter base for the code in Melbourne.

Its a ridiculous deal and it can't last. It will either split the game, or lose interest in other states.

Victorians need to get over their sense of entitlement and realise this is bad for the long term interests of the game.

 

[theyellowsash]

“dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.”

So, exactly what took place by extending the contract without tendering it. The AFL needs to look after it’s members, not just Victoria.

lol, the deal is neither of dishonest or fraudulent. the afl have been entirely upfront about it, just because you dont like it doesnt make it dishonest. nice own goal there.

a private business choosing to run an event at a particular location is not corruption, unless you're suggesting gil and the other people involved are getting personal under the table kickbacks in order to sign the contract, when they know it is definitively bad for the business as a whole. even then, being a private business, its arguable whether that is corruption either, as the afl has no obligations except to themselves.

poor business decision because it ostracises a portion of the customer base? perhaps. but poor business decisions alone arent corruption.

 

[Ricketz]

There is no doubt it isn't.

The Grand Final MUST be at the MCG for it to count as a real Grand Final. Last year did not feel like a Grand Final at all, nor will this year. Non-Vics need to remember they are guests in this league.

Lol, what a wank comment. We were playing footy in the Riverina in 1881.

 

[kickazz]

Lot's here crying how the league should be ran.

Here's an idea, go to your club, tell them you ain't buying a membership any more until something is done.


Who wants to bet it will be crickets, none of you will do a thing.

False dilemma. You are allowed to support your team, and the competition, whilst being critical of some aspects.

It's footy, not a religious cult.

 

[Ricketz]

lol, the deal is neither of dishonest or fraudulent. the afl have been entirely upfront about it, just because you dont like it doesnt make it dishonest. nice own goal there.

a private business choosing to run an event at a particular location is not corruption, unless you're suggesting gil and the other people involved are getting personal under the table kickbacks in order to sign the contract, when they know it is definitively bad for the business as a whole. even then, being a private business, its arguable whether that is corruption either, as the afl has no obligations except to themselves.

poor business decision because it ostracises a portion of the customer base? perhaps. but poor business decisions alone arent corruption.

The AFL isn't a private business. It's a member owned, unlisted public company.

The first card in your house topples.

 

[Papa G]

...... Forms of corruption vary, but can include bribery, lobbying, extortion, cronyism, collusion, nepotism, parochialism, patronage, influence peddling, graft, and embezzlement......

Sure, it doesn't fit all the categories, but it does tick a fair few of them.

 

[theyellowsash]

...... Forms of corruption vary, but can include bribery, lobbying, extortion, cronyism, collusion, nepotism, parochialism, patronage, influence peddling, graft, and embezzlement......

Sure, it doesn't fit all the categories, but it does tick a fair few of them.

lol, half of those aren't corruption. you dont just get to call things corruption because you feel/dont like it.

im not defending the deal. im just saying its not corruption.

The AFL isn't a private business. It's a member owned, unlisted public company.

The first card in your house topples.

the technical term for the afl might not be privately owned, but it is no different to any business which has shareholders. its not a taxpayer funded public service, is the point. they dont have a legal obligation to provide equal access. the deal might not be particularly fair, but the afl has no obligation to be fair. it's only corruption if gil et al are receiving personal gain (money, kickbacks etc) and have made a decision which is clearly detrimental to the business. keep in mind that a 'not the best' decision is still not necessarily detrimental. i deal with tenders in my job, the financially best is rarely the best in actuality for a variety of reasons.

in the end, apart from gil not getting personal gain from the decision, the main factor that makes this not corruption, is that it is an entertainment business that you have chosen to buy a membership in, that has been nothing but upfront about the fact that the grand final will always be at the mcg. had they sold you a membership while promising that you might see grand finals held outside victoria, then youd have an argument. but they never have.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

As a Victorian who moved to WA 15 years ago, I can say that 99% of born and bred Western Australians here never mention SA ever. It’s all most like the state doesn’t exist in their eyes.
Adelaide is the city you fly over to get to Melbourne and drive through stopping 2 or 3 times for fuel.

The “ eastern state” thing in WA only refers to Vic and NSW. Queensland is just a holiday destination like bali.

SA is the wastelands.

It's funny, because as you get older you realise how much people appreciate places like Adelaide. If they wanted another Sydney or Melbourne, they wouldn't leave, they wouldn't holiday, etc. Anyone over 30 who isn't a total dropkick bogan actually likes coming to Adelaide because they can rent a car and find their way around themselves because of the design of the city, they can drive 45 mins in any direction and hit up a world leading winery. They can go to any bakery or local business and get amazing food instead of some multinational that serves garbage. They actually know what the ****ing weather is going to do. Basically, they can go and have a good time.

The only people that rag on Adelaide are under 30s who don't know any better and bogans who think a cities' culture is dictated by the number of places they can get drunk at. People will say Adelaide is backward, and yet SA is the most progressive state and has been since before federation. Indigenous rights, women's rights, renewable energy, whatever you want to talk about, it's the other states who are dinosaurs and play catch up. We're not a city of convicts. It's why SA has a liberal government right now and is still not completely ****ed for Covid. We vote in little L liberals, not bible thumpers and conservatives.

I have also flown the coup. I live in Qld for work. I used to think it was an everyone against SA thing. What I have noticed is it's a 'Sydney and Melbourne people are so arrogant they would clones themselves and **** themselves if they could' thing. Brisbane and the GC are such amazing cities. They shit on Melbourne and Sydney. Qlders are by and large good people, no different from others, despite the redneck claims. So while I could live in expensive run down cities like Melbourne and Sydney that reek like piss where everyone lives on top of one another, I would rather live in Brisbane, a genuinely beautiful city full of people that aren't as up themselves than Melbourne and Sydney.

 

[Ricketz]

lol, half of those aren't corruption. you dont just get to call things corruption because you feel/dont like it.

im not defending the deal. im just saying its not corruption.


the technical term for the afl might not be privately owned, but it is no different to any business which has shareholders. its not a taxpayer funded public service, is the point. they dont have a legal obligation to provide equal access. the deal might not be particularly fair, but the afl has no obligation to be fair. it's only corruption if gil et al are receiving personal gain (money, kickbacks etc) and have made a decision which is clearly detrimental to the business. keep in mind that a 'not the best' decision is still not necessarily detrimental. i deal with tenders in my job, the financially best is rarely the best in actuality for a variety of reasons.

in the end, apart from gil not getting personal gain from the decision, the main factor that makes this not corruption, is that it is an entertainment business that you have chosen to buy a membership in, that has been nothing but upfront about the fact that the grand final will always be at the mcg. had they sold you a membership while promising that you might see grand finals held outside victoria, then youd have an argument. but they never have.

You deal with tenders. How does that give you any insight into the macabre MCG deal. It wasn't a tender process. I have also dealt with multi-million dollar tenders in private and public organisations. This deal stinks by comparison. Any honest person would admit that - zero transparency, locked in for a ridiculous amount of time and no evidence of ROI.

 

[LoungeLizard]

False dilemma. You are allowed to support your team, and the competition, whilst being critical of some aspects.

It's footy, not a religious cult.

LMAO
Didn't you read the OP?

 

[Neale4brownlow]

I still don't quite understand the upside for the AFL in such a long term and unders deal. They've sold the future of the sport for a dime all for what? Short term security? Was the game struggling that much?

I wouldn't be surprised to hear a barcelona scenario in 10 years that the league is bankrupt having been steered by a bunch of morons through this past decade.

The 100k capacity crowd argument is getting tiresome. Why does that matter? Millions watch at home and miss out even with 100k sold. Most are corporates.

We'll get more than 100k at the Optus Grand final of that I can assure you. 55k inside the stadium. Another 50k in the surrounds at Camfield/on rivers edge soaking in the atmosphere. This is what the Grand final should be. Take the greatest game in the country on tour and turn it into a full day event at a different city each year. Set up big screens outside the stadium, popup bars etc.

AFL have sold the goose laying the golden egg.

They should be selling the golden egg every year to a highest bidder in similar fashion to the Olympics or the FIFA world cup.

If that happens to be the MCG every year then so be it. But I can assure you they'd be paying alot more than the ~$6M/year they're currently paying (or less than really if you account for inflation over that time).

There is no other argument. It was a shit deal. Plain and simple. Will that change anything? No.

 

[Purple Suit]

lol, half of those aren't corruption. you dont just get to call things corruption because you feel/dont like it.

im not defending the deal. im just saying its not corruption.


the technical term for the afl might not be privately owned, but it is no different to any business which has shareholders. its not a taxpayer funded public service, is the point. they dont have a legal obligation to provide equal access. the deal might not be particularly fair, but the afl has no obligation to be fair. it's only corruption if gil et al are receiving personal gain (money, kickbacks etc) and have made a decision which is clearly detrimental to the business. keep in mind that a 'not the best' decision is still not necessarily detrimental. i deal with tenders in my job, the financially best is rarely the best in actuality for a variety of reasons.

in the end, apart from gil not getting personal gain from the decision, the main factor that makes this not corruption, is that it is an entertainment business that you have chosen to buy a membership in, that has been nothing but upfront about the fact that the grand final will always be at the mcg. had they sold you a membership while promising that you might see grand finals held outside victoria, then youd have an argument. but they never have.

Any business who did a deal this big without a tender process would be slammed by shareholders. Governments have policies that mean they have to tender.

It was a behind the scene's move when the existing contract had 20 years to run. Absolute disgrace that stinks of corruption because the process was not transparent to allow the entire organisation to have a say. You can't just make decision that advantage a certain percentage of your shareholders without voting. A normal contract would only run for a maximum of 10 years with an extension option so I'm not sure how they even achieve that or the point of it.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The last two seasons will be the only seasons in the leagues history that the GF will be neutral.

Well that's plainly not true.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well that's plainly not true.

Yes and I thought I had deleted that. You are correct. No idea what I was saying there.

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

lol, the deal is neither of dishonest or fraudulent. the afl have been entirely upfront about it, just because you dont like it doesnt make it dishonest. nice own goal there.

a private business choosing to run an event at a particular location is not corruption, unless you're suggesting gil and the other people involved are getting personal under the table kickbacks in order to sign the contract, when they know it is definitively bad for the business as a whole. even then, being a private business, its arguable whether that is corruption either, as the afl has no obligations except to themselves.

poor business decision because it ostracises a portion of the customer base? perhaps. but poor business decisions alone arent corruption.

Where do the rights of the member clubs sit in all that?
Would it be considered just a poor business decision if their profits (and even viability) as a going concern were jeopardised by such unilateral decisions clearly benefiting some and not others?

Just asking, I don't really know.

 

[Ricketz]

I still don't quite understand the upside for the AFL in such a long term and unders deal. They've sold the future of the sport for a dime all for what? Short term security? Was the game struggling that much?

I wouldn't be surprised to hear a barcelona scenario in 10 years that the league is bankrupt having been steered by a bunch of morons through this past decade.

The 100k capacity crowd argument is getting tiresome. Why does that matter? Millions watch at home and miss out even with 100k sold. Most are corporates.

We'll get more than 100k at the Optus Grand final of that I can assure you. 55k inside the stadium. Another 50k in the surrounds at Camfield/on rivers edge soaking in the atmosphere. This is what the Grand final should be. Take the greatest game in the country on tour and turn it into a full day event at a different city each year. Set up big screens outside the stadium, popup bars etc.

AFL have sold the goose laying the golden egg.

They should be selling the golden egg every year to a highest bidder in similar fashion to the Olympics or the FIFA world cup.

If that happens to be the MCG every year then so be it. But I can assure you they'd be paying alot more than the ~$6M/year they're currently paying (or less than really if you account for inflation over that time).

There is no other argument. It was a sh*t deal. Plain and simple. Will that change anything? No.

This is what I don't get - showcasing the game every year would undoubtedly attract interest from young kids in other states who would otherwise play something else.

My theory is the VIC government is also behind it to shore up the GF exclusively in Vic - it's worth a huge amount of money to the state every year.

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

This is what I don't get - showcasing the game every year would undoubtedly attract interest from young kids in other states who would otherwise play something else.

My theory is the VIC government is also behind it to shore up the GF exclusively in Vic - it's worth a huge amount of money to the state every year.

Some bright spark should put forward a $$$$ proposal to the AFL to rotate the Prelim Final weekend around the country.
Friday night and Saturday night extravaganza in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney (soon Hobart)
If the $$ make sense, why not?

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Some bright spark should put forward a $$$$ proposal to the AFL to rotate the Prelim Final weekend around the country.
Friday night and Saturday night extravaganza in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney (soon Hobart)
If the $$ make sense, why not?

That would probably be a reasonable compromise in the short term given there's no way to fix the GF issue now.

If nothing else it'll be amusing to hear the reasons from Victorians about why it's unfair for their clubs to play interstate for a Prelim when they earnt the right for it to be a home final ;-)

 

[HPKS]

It’s a shocking deal financially In anyone’s language. In say 2044 people will be asking “wtf were they thinking”. They failed every single club financially on that deal. Nothing to do where it is but on pure money terms it’s terrible.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Random question, have you ever been to Adelaide? lol

Have you tasted west end beer? lol

Unfortunately yes I have tasted it