Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[LoungeLizard]

No.
I sent it to his farm not long after the decision was made public. I wasnt rude or personal.

All of the AFL admin live in Melbourne, say no more. Why would they want any event not held in Melbourne.

Christ almighty, does anything go into your head?

It's a Vic comp, why would admin be in another state?

 

[Kwality]

Christ almighty, does anything go into your head?

It's a Vic comp, why would admin be in another state?

Richard is Chairman of the AFL Commission & it is the Commissioners who are abdicating their responsibility. I can understand the self interest of the Admin, the cricket club & the State Govt/taxpayer (I'm one).

 

[Del28562]

Where is the US masters played? Augusta. Why? Tradition. Where does every professional golfer want to play the US masters? Augusta.

Where is the England Tennis major held? Wimbledon. Why? Tradition. Where do players want it played? Wimbledon.

Where is the AFL Grand Final played? MCG. Why? Tradition. Where do the actual players want the GF to be played? MCG.

Non-Vic teams more regularly get lead in finals advantage as it’s almost never neutral. Vic teams most often play lead in finals against co-tenants so get no advantage.

Vic clubs have to suck-up the neutral finals, and non-Vic teams have to suck up the GF at the MCG.

And let’s look at MCG GF performance by interstate teams:

1992 Eagles: Win
1994 Eagles: Win
1996 Swans: loss
1997 Adelaide: Win
1998 Adelaide: Win
2001: brisbane: win
2002: Brisbane : Win
2003 Brisbane: win
2007 Port: Loss
2012 Sydney : Win

So interstate teams against Vic teams won 8 of the first 10 MCG grand finals (Sydney and Port were big outsiders in each losing GF) So was there something they put into the water that magically introduced a disadvantage? Or maybe, just maybe, in a GF the best team wins.


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That's when the game wasnt a full on zoned game, where guys held their position on the ground, where home ground advantage wasn't as pronounced as today

 

[LoungeLizard]

Richard is Chairman of the AFL Commission & it is the Commissioners who are abdicating their responsibility. I can understand the self interest of the Admin, the cricket club & the State Govt/taxpayer (I'm one).

You say you understand, but your posting history says you have no idea, in 3 months time you will ask the same questions, get told the same answers and you will go on the same tangents.

You even tried to compare the MCC with the WACA, that tells me, you have no idea.

 

[Del28562]

I'm fine with it moving around now, wouldn't worry me one iota.

I am just laughing at the sooks who come running to every one of these threads, same sook, same arguments.

And they will answer with, "well if we don't say nothin, nothin will be done"
LMAO, yep, the powers that be are all here reading this.

You don't imagine that the interstate club powerbrokers are saying the same thing in commission and club meetings, fancy thinking this is a big footy issue, nah no one cares where it's played,

Do you understand petitions hold the same weight as just someone writing into the AFL, as anyone will sign it

 

[LoungeLizard]

You don't imagine that the interstate club powerbrokers are saying the same thing in commission and club meetings, fancy thinking this is a big footy issue, nah no one cares where it's played,

Do you understand petitions hold the same weight as just someone writing into the AFL, as anyone will sign it

Mate how many supporters are boycotting the game?

AFL viewing is increasing, do you know what that means?


The AFL could'nt give a rats what you think of them, you mean nothing to them, but 1 million of you will get them to sit up and start listening.

 

[doppleganger]

Agree, however the post i was replying to headined with a statement that the MCG is the clear standout stadium in the country..

Your individual preference is just that....run a poll across Austrlia as to which is the standout stadium in the country and see what the majority think.

Which you are now agreeing is not correct. The Perth & Adelaide stadiums hold 60k, not the 40k you quote

Adelaide holds 60k....I guess they are standing on shoulders on the hill are they?

and I suspect if they had the carrot of hosting a GF every 5 years or so they would have expanded closer to 70k.

That is way too frequent if doing it equitably. 2 of 18 teams, so it would be once every 9 years.

Good luck with the SA govt spending more than it did to upgrade.

Atmosphere for prelims regardless of if they are in Western Sydney, Melbourne, Adealide, Perth etc are always far superior to that of the GF..
Anzac Day meh.. Last post is moving, opening bounce roar is good then it fizzes out fairly quickly.

That is the same for any game that is a blowout...PF are flat if the game is over at Qtime like they were this year.
A GF like 2010, 2012, 2018 where it goes down to the wire is electric

Just ridiculous to want to put a GF on at Metricon Stadium just to make it "equitable" but in the process stop 75k people getting the chance to go.

It isnt an improvement.

 

[doppleganger]

That's when the game wasnt a full on zoned game, where guys held their position on the ground, where home ground advantage wasn't as pronounced as today

LoL
Home ground advantage is reducing in most sports, plenty of studies and articles flagging that

Seasonal Home Advantage in English Professional Football; 1974–2018 - De Economist

We study seasonal home advantage in English professional football over the period 1974 to 2018. We distinguish between absolute home advantage, enjoyed equally by all teams in a division, and relative home advantage, which differs among teams in the division. We find that absolute home advantage...

link.springer.com

What really causes home field advantage – and why it’s on the decline

A data scholar explains why playing at home doesn't provide the boost that it once did.

www.pbs.org

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Id not bother with canberra - theres more league heads there - tassie is heartland and will over acheive compared to its size.

Victorians continually underestimate other heartland states love for footy.

They think they have some kind of monopoly on loving the game

I've never questioned the passion of other heartland states or cities for their footy - you're trying to extrapolate something I never claimed to denigrate my other points. Very politician of you.

I'm sure many Wollongong people have a great love for tennis or cricket, probably more so than many in Melbourne, but it doesn't mean they would be able to host the Australian Open or the Boxing Day Test.

I said pretty clearly - I would really like a Tassie and an NT AFL franchise. But the fact of the matter is they would struggle to create the revenue required to support such a club.

So if every state had a 100k seat stadium would you be fine with the GF moving around?

Yes. If the current contract could be resolved adequately, and the payout to the MCC for breaching this contract doesn't undermine the future of the comp.

& unsurprisingly, the same old privileged types run the same old ... 25,000 GF tickets to the cricket club leaving 75k for the footy fans.

What you don't realise is that of those 25k MCC members attending the GF, the vast majority are also club members who would otherwise be occupying seats within the club-allocated 17k. I've been one of them in both 2017 and 2019, and was surrounded by many others in the same boat on both occasions. It actually inflates the 17k allowance quite considerably.

It's a massive myth that most of MCC members who attend the GF do so as theatre-goers. From my experience, it's actually very few compared to those with a vested interest in the outcome.

 

[kranky al]

It's a massive myth that most of MCC members who attend the GF do so as theatre-goers. From my experience, it's actually very few compared to those with a vested interest in the outcome.

yes we saw that in 2017 - huge home crowd advantage there.

 

[doppleganger]

yes we saw that in 2017 - huge home crowd advantage there.

The question is, what advantage (if any) is provided by having circa 50% of crowd support?

A normal "home advantage" normally sees the home side have 90%+ of the crowd support.

Then go the other factors, ie routine isnt normal for GF week....you start seeing that components that are meant to contribute to the advantage part of "home advantage" are not the same in a GF as they are in a regular home game.

 

[kranky al]

The question is, what advantage (if any) is provided by having circa 50% of crowd support?

A normal "home advantage" normally sees the home side have 90%+ of the crowd support.

Then go the other factors, ie routine isnt normal for GF week....you start seeing that components that are meant to contribute to the advantage part of "home advantage" are not the same in a GF as they are in a regular home game.

If you think an mcg team vs an interstate team has anything like 50/50 support you are sucking yourself off and kudos to ya yoga teacher…..

 

[Del28562]

LoL
Home ground advantage is reducing in most sports, plenty of studies and articles flagging that

Seasonal Home Advantage in English Professional Football; 1974–2018 - De Economist

We study seasonal home advantage in English professional football over the period 1974 to 2018. We distinguish between absolute home advantage, enjoyed equally by all teams in a division, and relative home advantage, which differs among teams in the division. We find that absolute home advantage...

link.springer.com

What really causes home field advantage – and why it’s on the decline

A data scholar explains why playing at home doesn't provide the boost that it once did.

www.pbs.org

Except in the AFL it's played the majority of the time in an open area, Geelong is windier than the g and most importantly the dimensions of every AFL ground bar the g and domain are completely different, where if you play a full ground zone it's a completely different kettle of fish to defend

 

[Underarm]

So if every state had a 100k seat stadium would you be fine with the GF moving around?

I'd be happy with anywhere that provided more than 35,000 tickets to Club members.

 

[Hippster]

No one in the world builds a 100k stadium, the money is made via tv and could easily be made by being open for cities to tender. The AFL didn't need to extend the contracts to 2057, it's disgraceful, as a "charity" non for profit organisation that doesn't pay tax, they need to be fully transparent before they even sign these deals, all of their tenders should be open for everyone to see instead of the old boys club, where they scratch each other's backs.

The commetry on here stating its a Victorian league are stuck in the 90s, its a national comp, will be interesting what the next ceo does, let's hope it's an outsider appointed, where there's the likelihood the contract will be ripped up, for the benefit of AFL footy not the vfl

It can’t be ripped up. Need to worry about 2058 onwards. Can’t happen.

 

[kranky al]

Except in the AFL it's played the majority of the time in an open area, Geelong is windier than the g and most importantly the dimensions of every AFL ground bar the g and domain are completely different, where if you play a full ground zone it's a completely different kettle of fish to defend

No surprise that when we moved from subi to optus our ability to play the mcg well went up.

 

[Kwality]

No surprise that when we moved from subi to optus our ability to play the mcg well went up.

when the Bombers went to Tulla they put in two ovals, one to MCG dimensions. The Eagles have a similar set up at Lathlain.

 

[doppleganger]

If you think an mcg team vs an interstate team has anything like 50/50 support you are sucking yourself off and kudos to ya yoga teacher…..

No not 50/50 as there are a shitload of neutrals.

Would not get much more than 50k Tigers when you consider there will be 20k+ "neutrals".

So if you have 50k supporters in a crowd of 100k, you have 50% support. Never said the crowd was split 50/50.

And as the AFL/MCC would be dominated by Vic fans, majority would be happy to see the big vic team get rolled...that was the case in 2018 with plenty of neutrals always happy to see the Pies wobble.

 

[doppleganger]

Except in the AFL it's played the majority of the time in an open area, Geelong is windier than the g and most importantly the dimensions of every AFL ground bar the g and domain are completely different, where if you play a full ground zone it's a completely different kettle of fish to defend

??? Has that changed recently?

Yes, everyone is aware Geelong has a huge HGA as nobody is used to playing or bothers preparing for their toy ground....hence the inflated H&A position.

What has changed recently is that teams are getting more professional, they are putting in multiple sized ovals to better prepare them for away games and especially games at the G.

Travel techniques and recovery methods are much more advanced.

Umpire coaching under more scrutiny with video replay to aid training, to help with some bias.

So just like majority of sports, where the data shows that home advantage is actually reducing, and all teams preparing for the G...you somehow think the advantage MCG tenants get playing at the G is increasing!?

 

[doppleganger]

when the Bombers went to Tulla they put in two ovals, one to MCG dimensions. The Eagles have a similar set up at Lathlain.

Yep, all measures that see away disadvantage at the G reduce as they are training and preparing on an MCG sized oval.

 

[Del28562]

??? Has that changed recently?

Yes, everyone is aware Geelong has a huge HGA as nobody is used to playing or bothers preparing for their toy ground....hence the inflated H&A position.

What has changed recently is that teams are getting more professional, they are putting in multiple sized ovals to better prepare them for away games and especially games at the G.

Travel techniques and recovery methods are much more advanced.

Umpire coaching under more scrutiny with video replay to aid training, to help with some bias.

So just like majority of sports, where the data shows that home advantage is actually reducing, and all teams preparing for the G...you somehow think the advantage MCG tenants get playing at the G is increasing!?

The tigers of 2017-2020 were a 6 goal better side at the g, their home ground, their gamestyle was suited to the g, compared to marvel

 

[greatwhiteshark]

No not 50/50 as there are a shitload of neutrals.

Would not get much more than 50k Tigers when you consider there will be 20k+ "neutrals".

So if you have 50k supporters in a crowd of 100k, you have 50% support. Never said the crowd was split 50/50.

And as the AFL/MCC would be dominated by Vic fans, majority would be happy to see the big vic team get rolled...that was the case in 2018 with plenty of neutrals always happy to see the Pies wobble.

I was at the GF in 18 and I reckon the crowd was a 65-35 split at best. We actually commented how in hell could these genuine Collingwood supporters even get tickets to the game?
Neutrals don’t generally wear a teams jumper,never seen so many Collingwood supporters in my life.
I actually did write to the AFL asking how it was possible that so many Collingwood supporters got tickets, of course I never got a reply. Still to this day dont understand how that happened? and if it’s possible why didn’t Eagles supporters get access to another 20-30k tickets?

 

[doppleganger]

The tigers of 2017-2020 were a 6 goal better side at the g, their home ground, their gamestyle was suited to the g, compared to marvel

Tigers had a better record at Metricon than at the G From 2017 - 2020

At the G

Avg points for 89.8
Avg points against 65.9

At Metricon

Avg points for 90.3
Avg points against 45.6

Perhaps the Tigers were just a fecking strong team?? The Cats are the team that gets the big leg up at KP

 

[Papa G]

I was at the GF in 18 and I reckon the crowd was a 65-35 split at best. We actually commented how in hell could these genuine Collingwood supporters even get tickets to the game?
Neutrals don’t generally wear a teams jumper,never seen so many Collingwood supporters in my life.
I actually did write to the AFL asking how it was possible that so many Collingwood supporters got tickets, of course I never got a reply. Still to this day dont understand how that happened? and if it’s possible why didn’t Eagles supporters get access to another 20-30k tickets?

MCC/AFL members. Government/Corporate.
What is the percentage of corporate packages are sold locally compared to elsewhere? The majority youd think.
If the game is in your home town, you clearly are going to have more connections to get tickets.

 

[doppleganger]

I was at the GF in 18 and I reckon the crowd was a 65-35 split at best. We actually commented how in hell could these genuine Collingwood supporters even get tickets to the game?
Neutrals don’t generally wear a teams jumper,never seen so many Collingwood supporters in my life.
I actually did write to the AFL asking how it was possible that so many Collingwood supporters got tickets, of course I never got a reply. Still to this day dont understand how that happened?

AFL members, Pies have the largest cohort by a mile.

Even in the 2018 PF Pies had similar dominance against a supposed big Melbourne club In Richmond.

and if it’s possible why didn’t Eagles supporters get access to another 20-30k tickets?

Capacity only 100k, if Pies pushing 60k then Eagles cant get 45-50k themselves!

But yeah, lets share it and you wont event get 30k tops when it is Metricon's turn to host.