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List Mgmt. Big key forward

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loki04 said:
Of course if the gap is stupid and evident, but you cant tell me over the last 10 years all the KPF taken in the first rounds have been B grade and below standard of the mids in first rounds?


And then also you become an imbalanced team through having too many of same types. This may build a side capable of a one off flag but not a dominant team that will have multiple years success'.


Outside Moore all our tall fwds have come from rookie drafts, cat b/internationals, or very late draft picks.
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Usually the key types that are really strong go earlier draft time.

I’d have to go back through the drafts to see who we “missed” v who we got.

But I’m happy with De Goey over Wright which would be the classic case (and people argued for the 2 meter bloke) key player v midfielder.

Overall we’ve done ok in earlier key position types. Moore, Reid, Brown N, Cloke T, seems ok.

Might be fascinating who we could have got instead over say the last 15 years or so.
Caveat: who were regarded then as the top key position types at draft time.
 
Scodog10 said:
Mate this is up there with knightmare’s trade scenarios for the 16 yo Lukosius in 2017! Cameron is someone I rate, make no bones about that, but he’s borderline best 5 at GWS. I would 100% not take him ahead of Kelly, Coniglio, Whitfield or Greene (in any order) and would flip a coin over him and Davis. At best if you were doing a deal on him which involved JDG or Grundy steak knives like Sier or Phillips might be needed, but that’s it.

The type of deal 76 put forward is the Richmond offer to GWS on Treloar where you know the player isn’t keen, but your attitude is “**** it” let’s shit the bed on a deal for him anyway!
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I'd go a step further. JDG or Grundy for Cameron and I'd want the steak knives coming in our direction.
 
loki04 said:
He isn't coming anyway, he is GWS through and through, also very very doubtful Grundy goes anywhere either. Both are likely 1 club types.
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Definitely. This is right up there with tooth fairy discussion until it happens, but Scully was Giants to the core this time last year and if they manage to keep Coniglio and Kelly who knows. I think if we’re going to have the discussion on it we still need to maintain a modicum of reality.
 
Scodog10 said:
Definitely. This is right up there with tooth fairy discussion until it happens, but Scully was Giants to the core this time last year and if they manage to keep Coniglio and Kelly who knows. I think if we’re going to have the discussion on it we still need to maintain a modicum of reality.
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I have no idea how loyal Cameron is to GWS, but I do know that he loves the relative anonymity that playing AFL in Sydney brings, which is the polar opposite of playing for Collingwood. The only thing I could think of that could lure him to is is his lifelong love for the Pies (still marks his games against us in his calendar), but that only goes so far once you’re at a different club, as we’ve seen with Lynch, and today Naughton, signing a 5 year deal at the Dogs earlier than neccessary.
 

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Scodog10 said:
Definitely. This is right up there with tooth fairy discussion until it happens, but Scully was Giants to the core this time last year and if they manage to keep Coniglio and Kelly who knows. I think if we’re going to have the discussion on it we still need to maintain a modicum of reality.
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GWS instigated that as they thought Scully was physically shot, also Scully has history moving for coin. Cameron has already knocked back deals to go.
 
Saintly Viewed said:
Usually the key types that are really strong go earlier draft time.

I’d have to go back through the drafts to see who we “missed” v who we got.

But I’m happy with De Goey over Wright which would be the classic case (and people argued for the 2 meter bloke) key player v midfielder.

Overall we’ve done ok in earlier key position types. Moore, Reid, Brown N, Cloke T, seems ok.

Might be fascinating who we could have got instead over say the last 15 years or so.
Caveat: who were regarded then as the top key position types at draft time.
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There was a belief at the pies that its better to poach rucks or take with rookie picks then draft earlier and develop your own under Malthouse with Dekka, this finally swung back when we went for Grundy (after years of failing with poached/rookie types).

I can't help wonder if they tried the same approach with KPF, looking to poach them and makeshift in the meantime. There was a lot riding on Lynch and many at the club thought we were front runners.
 
loki04 said:
GWS instigated that as they thought Scully was physically shot, also Scully has history moving for coin. Cameron has already knocked back deals to go.
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True, but iirc GWS were forced to pay him waaay more than what they wanted to for his last contract too, and that was forced by us. I’m certain we got him thinking last time. At a minimum we should still be in his ear.
 
Key Forward types that are out of contract or free agents in 2020:

Eric Hipwood, BNE
Toby Wooller, BNE
Mitch McGovern, CAR
Joe Daniher, ESS (RFA)
Noah Gown, ESS
Shaun McKernan, ESS
Brennan Cox, FRE
Tom Hawkins, GEE (UFA)
Ben King, GC
Jack Lukosius, GC
Jeremy Cameron, GWS (RFA)
Jonathon Patton, GWS (RFA)
Ben Brown, NM
Charlie Dixon, PA
Josh Battle, STK
Josh Bruce, STK
Oscar Clavarino, STK
Paddy McCartin, STK
Jack Darling, WCE (RFA)
Josh Kennedy, WCE (UFA)
Josh Schache, WB
Timothy English, WB
 
Quicky said:
Key Forward types that are out of contract or free agents in 2020:

Eric Hipwood, BNE
Toby Wooller, BNE
Mitch McGovern, CAR
Joe Daniher, ESS (RFA)
Noah Gown, ESS
Shaun McKernan, ESS
Brennan Cox, FRE
Tom Hawkins, GEE (UFA)
Ben King, GC
Jack Lukosius, GC
Jeremy Cameron, GWS (RFA)
Jonathon Patton, GWS (RFA)
Ben Brown, NM
Charlie Dixon, PA
Josh Battle, STK
Josh Bruce, STK
Oscar Clavarino, STK
Paddy McCartin, STK
Jack Darling, WCE (RFA)
Josh Kennedy, WCE (UFA)
Josh Schache, WB
Timothy English, WB
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Out of all of those I like Hipwood but he wouldn't come cheap.
 
sirlothie said:
Out of all of those I like Hipwood but he wouldn't come cheap.
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He wouldn’t come at all, period. Something would have to break down drastically in the relationship between him and the club for him to leave his home state.
 
Why don't you start looking in the state leagues or U'18 comp? Why would anyone swap Grunds or JDG for anyone other than Buddy?

Cameron? seriously???
 

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Key forward types that are out of contract or free agents this year:

Connor Ballenden, BNE
Daniel McStay, BNE
Josh Walker, BNE
Levi Casboult, CAR (UFA)
Mitch Brown, ESS
Cam McCarthy, FRE
Shane Kersten, FRE
Wylie Buzza, GEE
Peter Wright, GC
Sam Day, GC
Jarryd Roughead, HAW (UFA)
Ryan Schoenmakers, HAW (UFA)
Sam Weideman, MEL
Jack Watts, PA
Justin Westhoff, PA (UFA)
Noah Balta, RCH
 
sirlothie said:
Can't be serious, no way I'd give either of them up for Cameron.
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I agree. That comment was in the context of a conversation about Cameron's trade cost. It was suggested that we'd have to pay significantly more than Grundy or JDG. I was suggesting that I'd want something back rather than offering something more. Frankly, I'd want a heap back.
 
loki04 said:
Im talking about actually dropping a 1st rounder on KPFs for once and developing our own.
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We don’t currently have a first round pick for the upcoming trade period (we gave it up in the Beams trade) and even if we did, it’d probably be (fingers crossed) a pick in the teens.

We’d have to trade out a player to get a first round pick - who have you got in mind?
 
76woodenspooners said:
We don’t currently have a first round pick for the upcoming trade period (we gave it up in the Beams trade) and even if we did, it’d probably be (fingers crossed) a pick in the teens.

We’d have to trade out a player to get a first round pick - who have you got in mind?
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I'm aware of that, painfully so.

And the following year is the Daicos draft hopefully he keeps his growth up an hits genuine KPP height and solves our issues.
 

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loki04 said:
I'm aware of that, painfully so.

And the following year is the Daicos draft hopefully he keeps his growth up an hits genuine KPP height and solves our issues.
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I think we have to wait until 2021 before Nick Daicos will be draft eligible, as his birthday (pretty definitely) comes in early January. He should be 16 now, and turn 18 in 2021. It's still a long wait for him!!
 
loki04 said:
I'm aware of that, painfully so.

And the following year is the Daicos draft hopefully he keeps his growth up an hits genuine KPP height and solves our issues.
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How tall is he meant to be now?
 
sirlothie said:
Can't be serious, no way I'd give either of them up for Cameron.
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Cameron is an equal talent to them arguably better when he is in form (2 x 60+ goal seasons, capable of bags and big possession numbers). If he played for pies and Degoey was at GWS you wouldn't want to do the deal either.

But you don't want to weaken the 22 to acquire him rather you look to trade in a Cameron through Draft picks.


I wouldn't trade Degoey or Grundy either as the net gain and loss isn't worth it. Similarly if it was the other way I wouldn't want to trade Cameron.
 
loki04 said:
Cameron is an equal talent to them arguably better when he is in form (2 x 60+ goal seasons, capable of bags and big possession numbers). If he played for pies and Degoey was at GWS you wouldn't want to do the deal either.

But you don't want to weaken the 22 to acquire him rather you look to trade in a Cameron through Draft picks.


I wouldn't trade Degoey or Grundy either as the net gain and loss isn't worth it. Similarly if it was the other way I wouldn't want to trade Cameron.
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Might be an equal talent, but not equal in character. Cameron often plays some pretty selfish footy and also appears to drop his head and become less competitive when things aren't going his way. Certainly not the case with Grundy or Degoey.
 

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