Bigfooty and the new sports media

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btdg

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 7, 2005
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The article in todays newspaper about players got me thinking a bit, and apologies for the length of this post. I don't believe for a second that players concern themselves at all about what gets posted on Bigfooty. They might read it to stoke their egos, but they'll beat themselves up much more about what the coach says about their kicking than what houlihan_is_a_girl_33 says on bigfooty. I mean, seriously - they're professional footballers, are we really expected to believe they're suffering depression as a result of what anonymous posters write on an internet website?

What I saw and read in that article, though, was the latest in a series of attacks or jibes by the print media, particularly the Herald Sun, on the new football media. Barely a week goes by now that there isn't a newspaper article talking about football blogs and websites (with Bigfooty prominently mentioned along with a couple of others), and these articles are generally negative. My take on this is that it is a response by journalists who are struggling to come to terms with modern football journalism, who resent the new media and long for the good old days.

15 years ago, newspapers were king when it came to sport, and football in particular. The action took place on Saturday, and we could go to see our team, then watch the highlights of the rest, and relied heavily on the newspaper reporters to tell us what happened. Even the commentators generally only saw 1-2 games a week. For news, we might hear about it on the radio, but for full reports on the games, and everything that happened in between, we turned to newspapers and print media the following day, and got a full report. And the newspapers made journalists into stars. The Big 3 - Caroline Wilson, Mike Sheehan and Patrick Smith - built up great reputations with clubs, coaches and players, and parlayed this into 'breaking stories'. They always had the inside word, and prided themselves on having the freshest and most comprehensive stories - and got paid pretty damn well for it. To be honest, though, the journalists were pretty lazy (and not just the big 3). Stories were handed to them by media managers anxious to put a positive spin on things, and they never really analysed things anyway - because a negative story would risk jeapordising the relationship. Mostly, they wrote puff-pieces, 2-page spreads on a player detailing his rise from bush footy player to AFL star, or other formulaic rubbish. When they did write a negative story, they went all out on the attack; timing their run just when a club was facing a leadership challenge or coaching change, so that at the least there would be a new administration or coach to deal with - the precious locker-room relationship wasn't at risk. When they wrote about games, they only really had to provide a recap - goal-kickers, best players (didn't really matter how accurate they were), who punched who. Most people didn't actually see the game, so they weren't really held to account all that much. They could get away with repeating a lot of tired old cliches - teams could be too old, player x was the best, etc, without ever justifying it.

But the rise of the internet - blogs, forums, websites, changes all that. Now, for breaking news, we go to Bigfooty. If something happens, it'll be up there within minutes, and if its significant within an hour we'll have a 30-page thread on it. Every game is on tv now too, and we have SEN providing instant radio analysis. We've got draft experts who are respected and provide us with running commentaries during the year, people who go to training and report on what happens, people who attended games who provide respected opinions. There's also a whole lot of muppets, but mostly we just enjoy the banter they provide.

Better than that, we get multiple perspectives on events; every angle is covered, debated, and discussed. By the time Sunday morning comes around, we've already forgotten about last night, and we're starting threads on next weeks game. Not only that, but the perspectives come from people who don't have to worry about building locker-room relationships in order to get the next 'scoop' handed to them on a platter. Posters on bigfooty don't care at all whether Jordan Russell is pissed off about the thread they started on him, so they can freely express their opinions. Sometimes those opinions boil over, sometimes they are coloured by bias, but often those make for the most interesting posts; they at least add a flavour you don't get in the newspaper. Compare headings:
'Blues lose thriller to Lions at Gabba: Brown kicks 5"; with
'Bloody pissweak effort by Blues last night'
Which story do you want to read? An emotionless report of a game you already saw and know everything about, or a rant from an emotional poster you can engage with (and respond to if you wish)? Of course its the latter. Even better, we can openly disagree with the opinions of the self-proclaimed footy gods. Disagree with Mike Sheehan's votes? Call him on it by starting your own thread. Others might have a different view, but it certainly cuts into his ego...

The USA has already gone down this path. Blog sites are king. Arguably the most prominent sports reporter in the USA is Bill Simmons on ESPN; popular because he rejects the idea that to write about sports you have to maintain good locker room relations, and instead writes what he thinks and feels. Columns teeming with emotion, sometimes overdone, but always interesting, humerous and enjoyable rather than bland reports handscripted by the clubs themselves. Essentially, he is just a really, really good blog writer/message board poster.

Bascially, the footy journalists see the writing on the wall. We don't want bland reports and 'scoops' that are really just a puff piece about how player x is tearing it up in the preseason. We want insightful analysis and commentary. We want entertaining articles that highlight aspects of the game that we and everyone on Bigfooty missed - if that means emulating the Simmons' and drawing links to pop culture or going somewhat off topic, the so be it. Some columnists do this - the Leaping Larry L's and Richard Hinds' of the journalist world. But right now, those guys are the minority, and the head guys, the Caroline Wilson's and Patrick Smiths, are fighting back. So every week, they're criticising the blogosphere. Apparently, we're hurting the feelings of players. Apparently, you can post anonymously and just make stuff up?

I say bring it on. Every one of those articles makes them look a little bit more foolish, and hastens the day when we get some high quality, entertaining footy journalism that enhances our enjoyment of the game, instead of the muckraking/pandering/bland tripe that we get in the newspapers currently. Anyway, food for thought, I'd be interested in others responses.
 
Good post btdg.

Some people prefer colourful opinions to the incredibly bland articles produced by AFL mouthpieces such as afl.com and the Record.
 

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Good post btdg.

Some people prefer colourful opinions to the incredibly bland articles produced by AFL mouthpieces such as afl.com and the Record.

Cheers - I hadn't even thought about those disgraces to 'journalism'. The record is useful for the teams and numbers, a few stats, and thats about it. They don't even provide interesting match previews and reviews - even though they generally have totally partisan crowds.

I should add to the above; there's something really cheap about the latest attempt to discredit the new media: "Players told not to ready bigfooty" or whatever it was. Like its all somehow beneath contemplation, that implicitly the only thing worth reading is written by the professionals in the newspaper.
 
Top post, one of the best i've read on here.

Sports journos (most of them are sports reporters) are vastly overpaid and overrated (with just a few exceptions). Any dedicated fan with a half decent grasp of the English language could do just as good a job.

Very much a case of who you know rather than what you know. Nepotism runs rife e.g Samantha Lane, Christi Malthouse, Jim Wilson, Rohan Connolly , Caroline Wilson , Robbo (??? I'm pretty sure).

Everyone of these reporters/journos should watch virtually every match. Too many (as evidenced on radio) don't and really there's no excuse for it.
Compared to some top overseas journos, there analysis is crap. Some still write like they're in the 70s.

As for sites like this harming players/coaches, you've got to be joking!! Journos criticisms in wide circulation newspapers would do far more harm than some anonymous thread on here. To say otherwise is ridiculous, much like today's article.
 
Great post. Mate, i haven't bought a newspaper (for the sole purpose of reading the footy section) in years. They are far too many egos in footy. With more accredited journalists reporting on footy than there are players, some look to sites like this to find their next scoop. Its lazy journalism, but unfortunately lazy journalists are in the majority. They have to fill their quotas afterall!

Must have been a slow news day.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the good old AFL is really behind all this.
They like to control the media , so they have very good 'friends' in the major media working for them. For example this is obvious from today's puff piece about AA in the Age. There are very very few hard hitting critical stories on the AFL in the commercial media. I suppose you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.
This is where the internet and forums like BigFooty have made huge inroads.
 
Post of the year IMO :thumbsu:

The more 'journalists' like Patrick Smith and Caroline Wilson complain about sites like bigfooty.com, the more it shows how truely unimaginative, uninsightful and passionless they are about what they do.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the good old AFL is really behind all this.
They like to control the media , so they have very good 'friends' in the major media working for them. For example this is obvious from today's puff piece about AA in the Age. There are very very few hard hitting critical stories on the AFL in the commercial media. I suppose you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.
This is where the internet and forums like BigFooty have made huge inroads.

Exactly, you wonder if the Journalists are really behind these articles (in todays case I do). Print Media and TV would definitely be worried about the internet and the ramifications it will have on their business. Though, there will most likely remain one constant amongst old and new media which is the Journalist itself. There will always be a need for a good one no matter which medium is used.

On a side note assuming the AFL is attempting to police these sites in some way, surely they have stumbled across the thousands of posts highlighting the frustration humour from the official AFL website
 
I wonder how many people really read the crap that Mike Sheahan and co. write in the papers when the article isn't about their own team. I'm guessing that it isn't as many as those 'journos' would like to think.

Don't get me wrong. They write some good stuff sometimes. I read an article by Sam Lane about Akermanis the other week that I thought was well written and interesting. Unfortunately, such articles are few and far between.

Let's be honest - if you are a professional who gets paid to analyse footy, you should be watching 8 games a week and tipping at least 6 winners every round. You should also be predicting who will go well and why. What our current crop of 'journos' actually do is tell who went well and why they think this happened. There's a big difference.
 

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It's hardly suprising. From the mid-90's for 5 - 10 years we had the TV networks running their 'If your child hops on the internet for 5 minutes, a pedophile will abuse them, so stick to tv' stories with regular monotomy. Until the TV networks realised no matter how much they tried to portray it as evil people were going to use the net and they switched to increasing their own online presences.

The print media, at least in this country, beyond sticking online versions of their printed pages on their websites are woeful. The TV networks are more then willing to have the 'printed' word on their websites without fear of people abandoning tv for newspapers, yet papers are too lazy (or stupid) to leverage their built up contacts and access to provide a real presence online worth something - don't just go and do an interview and write it down for tomorrows edition, put the video online when the return to the studio. There's real potential for the journo's to sit down and do serious lengthy discussions of tactics and the game with people from clubs that aren't 10 second news bites or shoe horn us into having to watch a footy show at a particular time, yet they'd rather heap abuse on the internet and drag everyone down to their level.

If the likes of the Age, Advertiser, Herald Sun or West Aus. provided regular online interviews with players/coaches where people could log on and ask their own questions (moderated to remove the plain abusive), would people be here discussing the match or be there asking the coach themselves about it?

Of course the AFL could do the same thing, and make the internet rights really useful. For all providing interviews and like online, is there no organisation here willing or able to actually involve the fans instead of just providing another medium to dribble their own s**t? Until there is as much as they bleat and moan sites like Bigfooty will flourish.
 
Top post.

I pretty much never buy the paper anymore. Why bother for sports news when you can log onto the various sites and get the info then and there.

Some journos and commentators dont even watch every game. You can tell when they start misnaming players during calls, or talking the biggest crap. No excuse for guys in that position to not watch every game every week and learn every player from each side.

Some of those guys have obviously lost the passion for the game and are only doing it for the easy fat pay cheque at the end of the week. Some peoples opinions on bigfooty are much more accurate than some in the media.
 
Great post mate. That is exactly how we all feel about the spin the journos are in. The question now is where to next? As mentioned, the newspapers are attempting to create an online presence, but when the standard of some of the threads on bigfooty far outweigh that of the journo's work, is there really a place for them? The Footyshow is a prime example of where AFL media is heading. They know that they can't come out with all the latest scoops - although they try hard, and have resorted to almost pure entertainment with a few tips chucked in for good measure. The days where Patrick Smith and Caroline Wilson had much of interest to share with their readers is long gone.
 
yep great post :thumbsu:

it blows me away how many journos/sports commentators don't watch every game every week. Without fail every week i will hear on radio / see on tv a commentator or journo asked about something and they will reply with "i didn't see that game" or "i haven't seen enough of team x to comment accurately".

WTF???? It's your job. Half the posters on BF would be able to answer the question better than you. Robert Walls is a shocker for it. Gets paid to do a round wrap up on 5AA every Monday and nearly every week one of the questions asked by KG and Cornsey can't be answered coz he didn't watch the game. He's commentating at 2-3 games a weekend. By Monday night he should have watched the rest. It's his bloody job.
 
bloody brilliant post mate.

the level of journalism has fallen away dramatically and that's saying something because it was never that great anyway.

these fellas have realised they can't get away with what they used to and have not adapted.
 
It doesn't help when some of these Journo's are also paid by the AFL and are basically puppets... Mr Sheehan... thats you.
 
First class post btdg - terrific! :thumbsu:

If some of these AFL footballers are 'supposedly' suffering from depression at the hands of a few negative opinions from online posters then they would be too mentally fragile to be playing at the highest level, well at least thriving anyway, they'd be subjected to worse on the ground you'd think.
Either they don't read it, or give up all the money and advantages they receive as an AFL footballer and go back to the State leagues.
Personally, I believe that article to be an absolute steaming pile of bullshit regardless.
Next thing they'll be wanting watered down AFL-approved opinions only, I've seen similar things to this before.

God this country's sporting media shits me with it's outdated, passionless thinking and pious attitudes.
 
Excellent job. That was an entertaining read and you had a point that I'm sure 99% of the people on this site would agree with. It needed to be said.
 
The article in todays newspaper about players got me thinking a bit, and apologies for the length of this post. I don't believe for a second that players concern themselves at all about what gets posted on Bigfooty. They might read it to stoke their egos, but they'll beat themselves up much more about what the coach says about their kicking than what houlihan_is_a_girl_33 says on bigfooty. I mean, seriously - they're professional footballers, are we really expected to believe they're suffering depression as a result of what anonymous posters write on an internet website?

What I saw and read in that article, though, was the latest in a series of attacks or jibes by the print media, particularly the Herald Sun, on the new football media. Barely a week goes by now that there isn't a newspaper article talking about football blogs and websites (with Bigfooty prominently mentioned along with a couple of others), and these articles are generally negative. My take on this is that it is a response by journalists who are struggling to come to terms with modern football journalism, who resent the new media and long for the good old days.

15 years ago, newspapers were king when it came to sport, and football in particular. The action took place on Saturday, and we could go to see our team, then watch the highlights of the rest, and relied heavily on the newspaper reporters to tell us what happened. Even the commentators generally only saw 1-2 games a week. For news, we might hear about it on the radio, but for full reports on the games, and everything that happened in between, we turned to newspapers and print media the following day, and got a full report. And the newspapers made journalists into stars. The Big 3 - Caroline Wilson, Mike Sheehan and Patrick Smith - built up great reputations with clubs, coaches and players, and parlayed this into 'breaking stories'. They always had the inside word, and prided themselves on having the freshest and most comprehensive stories - and got paid pretty damn well for it. To be honest, though, the journalists were pretty lazy (and not just the big 3). Stories were handed to them by media managers anxious to put a positive spin on things, and they never really analysed things anyway - because a negative story would risk jeapordising the relationship. Mostly, they wrote puff-pieces, 2-page spreads on a player detailing his rise from bush footy player to AFL star, or other formulaic rubbish. When they did write a negative story, they went all out on the attack; timing their run just when a club was facing a leadership challenge or coaching change, so that at the least there would be a new administration or coach to deal with - the precious locker-room relationship wasn't at risk. When they wrote about games, they only really had to provide a recap - goal-kickers, best players (didn't really matter how accurate they were), who punched who. Most people didn't actually see the game, so they weren't really held to account all that much. They could get away with repeating a lot of tired old cliches - teams could be too old, player x was the best, etc, without ever justifying it.

But the rise of the internet - blogs, forums, websites, changes all that. Now, for breaking news, we go to Bigfooty. If something happens, it'll be up there within minutes, and if its significant within an hour we'll have a 30-page thread on it. Every game is on tv now too, and we have SEN providing instant radio analysis. We've got draft experts who are respected and provide us with running commentaries during the year, people who go to training and report on what happens, people who attended games who provide respected opinions. There's also a whole lot of muppets, but mostly we just enjoy the banter they provide.

Better than that, we get multiple perspectives on events; every angle is covered, debated, and discussed. By the time Sunday morning comes around, we've already forgotten about last night, and we're starting threads on next weeks game. Not only that, but the perspectives come from people who don't have to worry about building locker-room relationships in order to get the next 'scoop' handed to them on a platter. Posters on bigfooty don't care at all whether Jordan Russell is pissed off about the thread they started on him, so they can freely express their opinions. Sometimes those opinions boil over, sometimes they are coloured by bias, but often those make for the most interesting posts; they at least add a flavour you don't get in the newspaper. Compare headings:
'Blues lose thriller to Lions at Gabba: Brown kicks 5"; with
'Bloody pissweak effort by Blues last night'
Which story do you want to read? An emotionless report of a game you already saw and know everything about, or a rant from an emotional poster you can engage with (and respond to if you wish)? Of course its the latter. Even better, we can openly disagree with the opinions of the self-proclaimed footy gods. Disagree with Mike Sheehan's votes? Call him on it by starting your own thread. Others might have a different view, but it certainly cuts into his ego...

The USA has already gone down this path. Blog sites are king. Arguably the most prominent sports reporter in the USA is Bill Simmons on ESPN; popular because he rejects the idea that to write about sports you have to maintain good locker room relations, and instead writes what he thinks and feels. Columns teeming with emotion, sometimes overdone, but always interesting, humerous and enjoyable rather than bland reports handscripted by the clubs themselves. Essentially, he is just a really, really good blog writer/message board poster.

Bascially, the footy journalists see the writing on the wall. We don't want bland reports and 'scoops' that are really just a puff piece about how player x is tearing it up in the preseason. We want insightful analysis and commentary. We want entertaining articles that highlight aspects of the game that we and everyone on Bigfooty missed - if that means emulating the Simmons' and drawing links to pop culture or going somewhat off topic, the so be it. Some columnists do this - the Leaping Larry L's and Richard Hinds' of the journalist world. But right now, those guys are the minority, and the head guys, the Caroline Wilson's and Patrick Smiths, are fighting back. So every week, they're criticising the blogosphere. Apparently, we're hurting the feelings of players. Apparently, you can post anonymously and just make stuff up?

I say bring it on. Every one of those articles makes them look a little bit more foolish, and hastens the day when we get some high quality, entertaining footy journalism that enhances our enjoyment of the game, instead of the muckraking/pandering/bland tripe that we get in the newspapers currently. Anyway, food for thought, I'd be interested in others responses.
This is a little bit cookie cutter.

Firstly, I think you over-state the quality of "the new media".

BigFooty doesn't break stories. When something happens - i.e. Cousins getting arrested - there's plenty of discussion. But to verify that it has actually happened, people will generally provide a link to a report in the traditional media. If those outlets are as devoid of credibility and relevance as you say, why does that still occur? Why bother with the link? Why don't we just rely on other posters to tell us what happened? And a lot of the comment on here is unbalanced and unreadable. So the traditional media, like newspapers, still have the blogosphere covered there.

Secondly, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms to be levelled at the traditional media, but to refer to what gets posted on BigFooty as "journalism" is ridiculous. To pretend there's some kind of parity is self-serving.

There's no doubt that traditional media have been spooked by the rise of online forums, but I think you're a little too keen to believe the hype. Do you really think BigFooty could properly usurp professional sports writers?

This delusion is at the heart of this tension between traditional and new media.

BigFooty posters are desperate to believe that they could do just as good a job as Mike Sheahan or Rohan Connolly. They're desperate to believe that they could step straight into their shoes and deliver. But they couldn't.

Those writers have more access to players and coaches and, quite frankly, are infinitely better writers than 99% of people who post on BigFooty. They will always be in a position to generate more readable, more incisive copy.

Also, I think it's interesting that you refer derisively to the "muck-raking" in the papers. You seem to be suggesting that the football public are force-fed that kind of coverage, but wouldn't otherwise consume it. But the reality is that BigFooty loves that kind of scandal/gossip. There is an enormous appetite for it on these boards. On BigFooty, where user-generated content is king, it's those kinds of stories that attract the most interest and the most passionate responses. If the blogger does in fact usurp the journalist, you'll see a million times more muck-raking.

You take umbrage with a lack of accountability in the traditional football media. Tell me how anonymous posters in cyberspace would be more accountable for what they write than Mike Sheahan.
 

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