Injury Blue Healers Discussion - 2024

[Aphrodite]

Injury Update 4th June …


Latest

Injury news: Tests for three

The injury news leading into Round 13.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Player​	Injury​	Update​
Dom Akuei	Illness	Was a late withdrawal from the VFL side on Sunday. Availability: test. (Update: 4 June)
Matt Carroll	Groin	Remains on a modified program for at least another month due to groin soreness.(Update: 30 April)
Adam Cerra	Hamstring	Availability: to be assessed following the Club's Round 14 bye. (Update: 28 May)
Matthew Cottrell	Foot	Underwent scans which revealed navicular stress reaction. Club will work through rehabilitation plan in coming weeks. Availability: to be reassessed following the Club's Round 14 bye. (Update: 14 May)
David Cuningham	Calf	Availability: to be assessed following the Club's Round 14 bye. (Update: 28 May)
Sam Docherty	Knee	Suffered a ruptured ACL and torn meniscus in his right knee. (Update: 9 March)
Sam Durdin	Soreness	Was a late withdrawal from the VFL side on Sunday. Availability: test. (Update: 4 June)
Jack Martin	Calf	Availability: to be assessed following the Club's Round 14 bye. (Update: 28 May)
Hudson O'Keeffe	Hamstring	Experienced a high-grade hamstring strain at training on Sunday. Availability: 8-12 weeks. (Update: 14 May)
Marc Pittonet	Finger	Availability: test. (Update: 4 June)
Jack Silvagni	Knee	Has begun initial stages of rehab following surgery. (Update: 21 February)

 

[RPCB]

My take - there's just too many unknowns from the outside to be able to form a concrete conclusion. We don't have the data to draw valid opinions.

The obvious - terrible list management under SOS, who constantly went for the injury-prone players at a discount. Even Cerra was questionable at the time. Glad we didn't go hard after the likes of Gresham last year.

The not-so-obvious:

• Do we have personalised programs for injury prone individuals
• Are we following best practice wrt to load management, and regularly assessing players' risk before sessions
• Are we following best practice wrt injury prevention in how we strengthen and correct issues with injury-prone players
• Are we resourced well enough to dedicate sufficient S&C time to all 38 players on the list, and not just those in the recovery group
• Training standards - are the players too competitive, and the less resilient types can't keep up with the likes of Walsh and Hollands on the track
• Are we doing too much load on the track as a whole, and if so, is that being driven by S&C or the football department
• Is our game style too taxing? Are players being asked to do too much with the way we play and structure?
• Does the surface at PP contribute?

A lot of those questions are impossible to answer from the outside but are exactly the sort of data points we'd need to correctly assess what actions we need to take.

I'm generally not a fan of wholesale change - find competent people and adjust if necessary. If there are issues, can they be identified and addressed without having to move on AR?

I remember asking a Carlton supporting mate are we training the players the wrong way and this was why we were getting so many injuries. This was 20+ years ago.

The injury issues has been an issue for a very long time. The surface at PP could very well be a big culprit.

 

[RAPPA]

Are the tools to blame or the tradesperson using them? Hard to tell. But whether it’s a change in processes or personnel in that department, I can’t see the status quo remaining in place for next year.

 

[skadoosh]

My 2 cents:
The injury prone players remain prone to injuries
To my knowledge we have the right people in the right positions ie. Cook, Sayers, Voss
Calls will be made, reviews completed, hard questions will be asked. That is the job of the above-mentioned people.

 

[myblueroan]

Have been told by a High-Performance Specialist who has previously been employed at multiple AFL clubs that the general consensus among their peers is that AR is archaic in his practices. He only believes in the old-fashioned flogging of his players in order to build fitness.

The club began implementing personalised training programs last year for particular players - I am not sure whether they remain in place.

HPS's are lining up for the job.

How do we know for sure what is going on?

 

[myblueroan]

Are the tools to blame or the tradesperson using them? Hard to tell. But whether it’s a change in processes or personnel in that department, I can’t see the status quo remaining in place for next year.

Yep. Seems to have come to this

 

[Soapy V]

My take - there's just too many unknowns from the outside to be able to form a concrete conclusion. We don't have the data to draw valid opinions.

The obvious - terrible list management under SOS, who constantly went for the injury-prone players at a discount. Even Cerra was questionable at the time. Glad we didn't go hard after the likes of Gresham last year.

The not-so-obvious:

• Do we have personalised programs for injury prone individuals
• Are we following best practice wrt to load management, and regularly assessing players' risk before sessions
• Are we following best practice wrt injury prevention in how we strengthen and correct issues with injury-prone players
• Are we resourced well enough to dedicate sufficient S&C time to all 38 players on the list, and not just those in the recovery group
• Training standards - are the players too competitive, and the less resilient types can't keep up with the likes of Walsh and Hollands on the track
• Are we doing too much load on the track as a whole, and if so, is that being driven by S&C or the football department
• Is our game style too taxing? Are players being asked to do too much with the way we play and structure?
• Does the surface at PP contribute?

A lot of those questions are impossible to answer from the outside but are exactly the sort of data points we'd need to correctly assess what actions we need to take.

I'm generally not a fan of wholesale change - find competent people and adjust if necessary. If there are issues, can they be identified and addressed without having to move on AR?

In Cook I trust

 

[ArseClown]

I remember asking a Carlton supporting mate are we training the players the wrong way and this was why we were getting so many injuries. This was 20+ years ago.

The injury issues has been an issue for a very long time. The surface at PP could very well be a big culprit.

I'm heading over to PP tonight with a penetrometer and I'm prepared to halt training if its anything harder than a slow 6.

 

[Blue By Blood]

I’m of the opinion the majority of our poor injury run is due to some players who’s bodies simply won’t hold up regardless of the strength and conditioning routine in place and that Russell shouldn’t cop all the blame here. I do have some question marks around stress reactions and repeat foot injuries though. That being said, as someone with an exercise and sports science background, I know first hand that many in the industry are pretty rigid with their beliefs and approach. They’ll continue to do what has worked for them in the past without adapting to what is now facing them or jumping on new trends and new science. It’s like a game plan, you have to adapt and work with the skills of the group you have and customise a plan around that. There is no one size fits all approach and there are pros and cons to each methodology. Some like to hammer the players to condition the body to resilience, some like taking a more conservative approach. Some like having the players all on the same program and some like creating individualised programs.

I think regardless of who, if anyone, is to blame for our injury run, we should be trying something new and a fresh approach. Russell has had a long time to stamp his methods now and it’s probably time to move on from that. It’s obvious that Voss has chosen to smash the players even harder in pre-season, I remember him saying as much during an interview. Jury is out if that’s a smart move given the durability of our players and our heavy contested game style . Either way though, regardless of whether they bring in new ideas with strength and conditioning, we need to let go some (not all) of the injury prone players and rejuvenate the list.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I’m of the opinion the majority of our poor injury run is due to some players who’s bodies simply won’t hold up regardless of the strength and conditioning routine in place and that Russell shouldn’t cop all the blame here. I do have some question marks around stress reactions and repeat foot injuries though. That being said, as someone with an exercise and sports science background, I know first hand that many in the industry are pretty rigid with their beliefs and approach. They’ll continue to do what has worked for them in the past without adapting to what is now facing them or jumping on new trends and new science. It’s like a game plan, you have to adapt and work with the skills of the group you have and customise a plan around that. There is no one size fits all approach and there are pros and cons to each methodology. Some like to hammer the players to condition the body to resilience, some like taking a more conservative approach. Some like having the players all on the same program and some like creating individualised programs.

I think regardless of who, if anyone, is to blame for our injury run, we should be trying something new and a fresh approach. Russell has had a long time to stamp his methods now and it’s probably time to move on from that. It’s obvious that Voss has chosen to smash the players even harder in pre-season, I remember him saying as much during an interview. Jury is out if that’s a smart move given the durability of our players and our heavy contested game style . Either way though, regardless of whether they bring in new ideas with strength and conditioning, we need to let go some (not all) of the injury prone players and rejuvenate the list.

The same blokes were getting the same injuries when they weren’t getting flogged too. Ironically the more it happens the more I’m inclined to believe the players are the issue rather than Russell.

The players who we’ve heard aren’t great trainers have been the one’s who have struggled - Martin, Cunners, McGovern, Williams in particular - even individual programs have had mixed results.

Marchbank is a bit of an anomaly in that he looks after himself but his injuries have largely been specific incidents (neck, shoulder, knee, back) so he has been ridiculously unlucky.

 

[RPCB]

I'm heading over to PP tonight with a penetrometer and I'm prepared to halt training if it’s anything harder than a slow 6.

And that’s why the username checks out.

 

[Zlatan]

If these “extended training blocks” still result in the usual suspects getting injured, should we just bring them back a tad underdone, get them injured sooner and subsequently be back earlier

 

[RPCB]

If these “extended training blocks” still result in the usual suspects getting injured, should we just bring them back a tad underdone, get them injured sooner and subsequently be back earlier

I personally miss the VFL days when a player would lose a finger in a hunting accident on the Thursday and then play on Saturday.

 

[andyrogers80]

The same blokes were getting the same injuries when they weren’t getting flogged too. Ironically the more it happens the more I’m inclined to believe the players are the issue rather than Russell.

The players who we’ve heard aren’t great trainers have been the one’s who have struggled - Martin, Cunners, McGovern, Williams in particular - even individual programs have had mixed results.

Marchbank is a bit of an anomaly in that he looks after himself but his injuries have largely been specific incidents (neck, shoulder, knee, back) so he has been ridiculously unlucky.

Whilst I fully agree. Are you saying Cerra and Weitering are not great trainers? Are you saying the management of Walsh’s back is due to poor training standards?
I accept it could be a combination of the both. But I now feel it’s past just having some players with poor training standards or just injury cursed.
Add Motlop also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beyond Blue]

Whilst I fully agree. Are you saying Cerra and Weitering are not great trainers? Are you saying the management of Walsh’s back is due to poor training standards?
I accept it could be a combination of the both. But I now feel it’s past just having some players with poor training standards or just injury cursed.
Add Motlop also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Weitering and Walsh don’t have durability issues. They consistently play enough games each season and consistently deliver good performances.

Motlop is 3 years into his career and still learning what his body can and cannot do. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

Cerrra is a big concern. 5 times he has done the same injury and he is in the 7th year of his career. He should understand his body and its limitations better by now.

 

[athensblue]

D Hannebery has an opinion about Russell and our injured players?

 

[Aphrodite]

D Hannebery has an opinion about Russell and our injured players?

Que?

 

[athensblue]

Que?

Was on Sen half an hr ago and was asked abt our injury woes

Asking someone durable I could understand

 

[Prem17]

Rewind back to Round 1, (or is it round 2 with the new bs round 0?).....
Anyway.... pre-game with Voss before our second game he said that "we've deliberately trained really hard up to this point and we'll go into the break (bye) and reassess."

All teams train hard over the pre-season but I think the club needs to change what they are doing.
There are way too many hammy and calf issues for my liking.

 

[bigblueboy]

Weitering and Walsh don’t have durability issues. They consistently play enough games each season and consistently deliver good performances.

Motlop is 3 years into his career and still learning what his body can and cannot do. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

Cerrra is a big concern. 5 times he has done the same injury and he is in the 7th year of his career. He should understand his body and its limitations better by now.

Unpopular opinion … but Weitering isn’t as resilient as he should be.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Unpopular opinion … but Weitering isn’t as resilient as he should be.

He has won 2 of the last 4 best and fairest awards. He is literally the least of our problems.

 

[bigblueboy]

He has won 2 of the last 4 best and fairest awards. He is literally the least of our problems.

Goes off when others would play through.

 

[JJBagger]

Goes off when others would play through.

He looked like he couldn’t jump at the end of that second quarter

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Goes off when others would play through.

Unpopular I know but I sort of agree with that.

 

[My Hat]

Goes off when others would play through.

Possibly true in his first year or two. Not since then.

 

[bigblueboy]

Possibly true in his first year or two. Not since then.

He looked like he couldn’t jump at the end of that second quarter

I would argue not being able to jump doesn’t equal “must be subbed out”.