Bluemour Discussion Thread III

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

what did u expect? the guy is 25 and a Brownlow medallist, i doubt theres anyone on our list enticing enough apart from our 'untouchables'

Judd was 24, a Brownlow medalist and a premiership captain. I expected them to be a little hard-headed and have some ridiculous suggestions. It's natural to overrate your own players and not want them gone, but they can't even hold a normal converstaion. Thought I might have had at least a couple of reasonable responses.
Can't expect much from supporters of a club that just sits on its haunches every year and expects to get better. Never sign any free agents, never trade anyone in or out and just take their standard picks to the draft each year. It took a massive fall from grace for them to start doing anything.

 

[F_therest]

I don't agree. we should have Murphy back, there is the like for like replacement. Essendon had half their list out this year and you watch, it wont hurt them next year. It's worth the wait. This is where we have fallen over in the past. Premiership teams get there by using their draft picks, not throwing them away at quick fix situations. Two top picks for ONE season from a player. I've seen crazy before but this is going too far.

You are not looking at the situation in context.

We are going a youth path, but after this years trades we will have brought in a huge influx of young guys already...you dont want to have TOO many at one time.

It's not like we are sacrificing youth to get Fyfe...we will still have top picks this year and our first and second next year...
We would be trading Gibbs for Fyfe...that in no way is compromising the list strategy or going for a 'quick fix'.

Also Hawthorn traded 2 first round draft picks for Shaun Burgoyne years back...worked out pretty well for them.
The problem with Judd is we sold the farm and didn't have the depth, coach, recruiting team and hierachy to see it through properly.

In this case we are not selling the farm and we can trust the hierachy now to do it right.
We have plenty of young talent coming through now to support Fyfe.

 

[Aphrodite]

Not sure if it's been posted or discussed but..

http://www.zerohanger.com/reports-giants-mid-likely-to-join-carlton-8176/

Also reported here:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...s/news-story/0501ef063304eb12744389df3fe5163d

Pretty sure those articles are from yesterday afternoon.

It was reported on CH7 news last night that the Club wasn't interested in Palmer.

 

[Matty411]

Pretty sure those articles are from yesterday afternoon.

It was reported on CH7 news last night that the Club wasn't interested in Palmer.

To be fair it was Stevo, which carries about as much weight as GuesSEN these days... He categorically said Lewis won't be leaving 5 days ago.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's interesting the Fyfe 2017 vs Fyfe 2018 debate. Obviously there are the issues of, if we can get him now or wait and SEE if we can get him next year is a big debate but the one i want to bring up is the "for free" vs "trading picks part"

What those in the "for free" boat don't realise, I think, is that if we wait for Fyfe to be a free agent next year, not only do we have to hope he still wants to come here. But we have to put in an offer so big as to scare Freo away from matching or we'd have to trade picks anyway. Plus we'd have to outbid other clubs.

Say we end up offering Ffyfe 1.1million over four years as a free agent. We get him for "FREE" right? What if it's not right though. Looking at Sydney, and how Buddy Franklin's huge salary is hemorrhaging their salary cap. Players like Tom Mitchell are walking out and likely so. If they weren't such a strong club pre Buddy Franklin i think you'd have a lot of the Kennedy's, Parkers and Hannebery's walking out as well.

So the argument is, we can have Fyfe and two first round picks playing for us in 2018. Or we can have Fyfe and two less first round picks in 2017. What if our pick leaves the club in 2019 because we've paid Fyfe over the top to get him across. Signing him now and paying him less, like 800k a season, may be better in the long term

I think there are clearly two sides to this debate and one is not the clear cut answer.

 

[IronMan29]

Is Fyfe our new Pavlich???????

 

[Jorge]

What those in the "for free" boat don't realise, I think, is that if we wait for Fyfe to be a free agent next year, not only do we have to hope he still wants to come here. But we have to put in an offer so big as to scare Freo away from matching or we'd have to trade picks anyway. Plus we'd have to outbid other clubs.

I liked the way you approached the argument with an open mind, but if he really is going to cost that much more money next year then why would he make the move now?

 

[F_therest]

It's interesting the Fyfe 2017 vs Fyfe 2018 debate. Obviously there are the issues of, if we can get him now or wait and SEE if we can get him next year is a big debate but the one i want to bring up is the "for free" vs "trading picks part"

What those in the "for free" boat don't realise, I think, is that if we wait for Fyfe to be a free agent next year, not only do we have to hope he still wants to come here. But we have to put in an offer so big as to scare Freo away from matching or we'd have to trade picks anyway. Plus we'd have to outbid other clubs.

Say we end up offering Ffyfe 1.1million over four years as a free agent. We get him for "FREE" right? What if it's not right though. Looking at Sydney, and how Buddy Franklin's huge salary is hemorrhaging their salary cap. Players like Tom Mitchell are walking out and likely so. If they weren't such a strong club pre Buddy Franklin i think you'd have a lot of the Kennedy's, Parkers and Hannebery's walking out as well.

So the argument is, we can have Fyfe and two first round picks playing for us in 2018. Or we can have Fyfe and two less first round picks in 2017. What if our pick leaves the club in 2019 because we've paid Fyfe over the top to get him across. Signing him now and paying him less, like 800k a season, may be better in the long term

I think there are clearly two sides to this debate and one is not the clear cut answer.

I think it is clear cut.
Assuming Fyfe is agreeing to move to us now, and the price is what we get for Gibbs, it's a no brainer.

You brought up some counters to the 'get him for free next year' argument.

Another one im seeing a lot is 'don't want Fyfe because we're sacrificing our future and another 'quick fix' when will Carlton learn'.
This is false. We are not selling our future because essentially we are trading Gibbs for Fyfe...if Gibbs was staying and we were trading pick 5 and 2017 1st rounder for Fyfe, THAT would be selling our future.

We will still have pick 5 and our 1st rounder next year to bring in quality kids.

People seem to want to just stack the team with young guys...i thought we all agreed we don't want to do a Melbourne?
Without Gibbs or an equal replacement what good is stacking the team with young players when we get beat up every week and they dont develop?

We have plenty of young talent on the list now after this draft...we can afford to trade some picks for Fyfe.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I liked the way you approached the argument with an open mind, but if he really is going to cost that much more money next year then why would he make the move now?

Get to Melbourne quicker; get out of Freo quicker.

 

[Jorge]

Get to Melbourne quicker; get out of Freo quicker.

Sure, but is that a good enough reason to forfeit $500k over the term of his contract? I guess only NF can answer that but I would say definitely not.

 

[Gavstar]

Anyone hear what Andy Maher said re: Gibbs on SEN? Just missed it apart from Atkins and Lyons being rejected.

 

[Nori]

Pretty sure those articles are from yesterday afternoon.

It was reported on CH7 news last night that the Club wasn't interested in Palmer.

That's the best news I've heard all day. Thanks for the update Aph.

 

[gbatman]

We will have more cash than anyone next year.

We could offer Fyfe a 1 year 3.5 million deal so it won't be matched. Then just pay him 700k a year after that.

Which could be really good for us because it means we don't have to over pay blokes to reach the minimum TPPs. Might actually be a good thing to have a guy on a heavily front loaded massive contract. Surely we wouldn't lose a bidding war, not in 2017.

 

[Jabba73]

Sure, but is that a good enough reason to forfeit $500k over the term of his contract? I guess only NF can answer that but I would say definitely not.

Get him a gig on TFS, nothing wrong with that apparently.

 

[Kleenex Crew]

Anyone hear what Andy Maher said re: Gibbs on SEN? Just missed it apart from Atkins and Lyons being rejected.

95% chance he stays and that he's heard from a good Carlton source that AFC offered Gibbs a 5 year contract.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think it is clear cut.
Assuming Fyfe is agreeing to move to us now, and the price is what we get for Gibbs, it's a no brainer.

You brought up some counters to the 'get him for free next year' argument.

Another one im seeing a lot is 'don't want Fyfe because we're sacrificing our future and another 'quick fix' when will Carlton learn'.
This is false. We are not selling our future because essentially we are trading Gibbs for Fyfe...if Gibbs was staying and we were trading pick 5 and 2017 1st rounder for Fyfe, THAT would be selling our future.

We will still have pick 5 and our 1st rounder next year to bring in quality kids.

People seem to want to just stack the team with young guys...i thought we all agreed we don't want to do a Melbourne?
Without Gibbs or an equal replacement what good is stacking the team with young players when we get beat up every week and they dont develop?

We have plenty of young talent on the list now after this draft...we can afford to trade some picks for Fyfe.

That's not going to happen but. They would want 5,13 and out first next season

 

[Zlatan]

Heard a strong rumour, source is impeccable...

Apparently it's ODN's Birthday today...

Adelaide offering 3rd rounder + Lyons for this.

 

[HBF]

you're all dickheads. Every last one of you.

Classic potty mouth behavior.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We will have more cash than anyone next year.

We could offer Fyfe a 1 year 3.5 million deal so it won't be matched. Then just pay him 700k a year after that.

I think that's what we should be aiming at even if we have to delist a few depth players. I think we also have to have a back up plan if Freo do match. We should be happy to walk away and chase someone else.

 

[ShanDog]

OK IM DONE JUST TRADE SOMETHING FFS

 

[Coops93]

Why have we been so quiet this trade period?

Has the Gibbs trade request really thrown us off this much?

 

[Marc Shmurf 3]

As mentioned a few weeks ago, Fyfe is the big fish we are after. We are waiting on Freo to respond & the door has not been closed shut on it just yet. We were hoping we could get him next year via FA, but Freo would likely match any offer. Now we have 2 first rounders, Freo are just considering if that satisfies or not. My gut feel is that it won't happen, but it's also a real possibility.

 

[bluemahogany]

As mentioned a few weeks ago, Fyfe is the big fish we are after. We are waiting on Freo to respond & the door has not been closed shut on it just yet. We were hoping we could get him next year via FA, but Freo would likely match any offer. Now we have 2 first rounders, Freo are just considering if that satisfies or not. My gut feel is that it won't happen, but it's also a real possibility.

Oh my god

 

[LanceRomance]

As mentioned a few weeks ago, Fyfe is the big fish we are after. We are waiting on Freo to respond & the door has not been closed shut on it just yet. We were hoping we could get him next year via FA, but Freo would likely match any offer. Now we have 2 first rounders, Freo are just considering if that satisfies or not. My gut feel is that it won't happen, but it's also a real possibility.

very interesting.

What is going on with Tuohy?

 

[perthblue]

shit just got slightly more real