- Oct 4, 2013
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I wouldn't be giving pick 3 for those two. I'd expect us to keep pick 3 and use what we get for Gibbs and Casboult for them.
Having said that. I'd much rather Kelly.
Bluemour Discussion Thread IV
- Thread starter Mr_Plow
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I wouldn't be giving pick 3 for those two. I'd expect us to keep pick 3 and use what we get for Gibbs and Casboult for them.
Having said that. I'd much rather Kelly.
Dramoth
Premium Platinum
If the rumour I posted about the potential Gibbs trade comes about... I could see us sending the picks from Gibbs plus the Cas compo (if we get any) to GWS for Kelly and Hopper... with maybe taking Griffen as the salary dump. If we can somehow work Whitfield into the deal, that would be great.
- Mar 19, 2014
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GWS arent paying much of Deledios contract, not enough to try to salary dump him anyway.
I have a feeling Hopper will stay at GWS, not demanding too much $$$ and came through their academy.
IF, theyre into Martin, their salary dump would be someone like Griffin. Would be on very decent coin and they have gotten very little in return out of him. Even when he was playing, Griffin looked like a shadow of himself.
To fit martin in their cap, realistically they would have to trade Griffin, Kelly, Whitfield/Hopper. As good as Martin is, he's not worth that much.
If Kelly wants to go, thats only ~350-400k, martin will get over 1mil. They would still have to clear at east 400k and this allowing for a increased cap of 20% next year all in Martins wallet. They still have alot of young talent, they would want to keep together. I think they would rather keep Hopper, Whitfield and let Kelly go if he wants. If Stevie J finishes up as expected, wouldnt be surprised if they tried to get someone like Pulopilo from the Hawks.
If people think we could get both Hopper and Kelly with pick 3, theyre dreaming. We will need to sweaten the deal to get Kelly alone.
Pick 3 and swap of 2nd rounders (or maybe a 3rd) for Kelly and Griffin is the going rate imo.
I have a feeling Hopper will stay at GWS, not demanding too much $$$ and came through their academy.
IF, theyre into Martin, their salary dump would be someone like Griffin. Would be on very decent coin and they have gotten very little in return out of him. Even when he was playing, Griffin looked like a shadow of himself.
To fit martin in their cap, realistically they would have to trade Griffin, Kelly, Whitfield/Hopper. As good as Martin is, he's not worth that much.
If Kelly wants to go, thats only ~350-400k, martin will get over 1mil. They would still have to clear at east 400k and this allowing for a increased cap of 20% next year all in Martins wallet. They still have alot of young talent, they would want to keep together. I think they would rather keep Hopper, Whitfield and let Kelly go if he wants. If Stevie J finishes up as expected, wouldnt be surprised if they tried to get someone like Pulopilo from the Hawks.
If people think we could get both Hopper and Kelly with pick 3, theyre dreaming. We will need to sweaten the deal to get Kelly alone.
Pick 3 and swap of 2nd rounders (or maybe a 3rd) for Kelly and Griffin is the going rate imo.
If he wanted to be a one club player he would have taken the deal on the table. He didn't, 'untenable' is based on his own monetary stance which provides no real insight without knowing the difference.
Edit Wrong thread, so let's just say I heard this from my Irish hairdresser who knows a guy who knows a guy that had a guinness with a chap whose own hairdresser went to school with a mutal friend of a friend of Bryne who claimed that he relayed that Zack is only in it for the money, but then he also thought they still played gaelic football so take it with a grain of salt I guess. As an aside the hairdresser isn't the best, the chap's hairdresser that is, not mine, but again just going off third party info. Mine is alright but not worth going out of your way to see if you know what I mean.
Edit Wrong thread, so let's just say I heard this from my Irish hairdresser who knows a guy who knows a guy that had a guinness with a chap whose own hairdresser went to school with a mutal friend of a friend of Bryne who claimed that he relayed that Zack is only in it for the money, but then he also thought they still played gaelic football so take it with a grain of salt I guess. As an aside the hairdresser isn't the best, the chap's hairdresser that is, not mine, but again just going off third party info. Mine is alright but not worth going out of your way to see if you know what I mean.
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ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
There were rumours (from reliable posters) well before the end of the season that we had put a mediocre deal in front of Tuohy. I think SOS identified him early on as an asset to cash in.
And SOS is not dumb enough to push a guy half out the door, make him disillusioned and THEN walk around and check if anyone is interested in trading for him. That's almost as bad as what we did with Robinson and Garlett.
I reckon SOS went to Geelong FIRST, asked them if they were interested, they worked out some kind of ballpark trade. Then we low-balled Zac, knowing he would reject it and then sometime soon after Geelong 'conveniently' calls up Zac's management and asks if he's interested moving across for significantly more money.
Even if it didn't happen exactly like that, I think it's clear Zac was pushed out the door as a sacrifice to secure Marchbank.
I understand why the club might have chosen such a strategy, and as a result I don't resent Zac for leaving.
And SOS is not dumb enough to push a guy half out the door, make him disillusioned and THEN walk around and check if anyone is interested in trading for him. That's almost as bad as what we did with Robinson and Garlett.
I reckon SOS went to Geelong FIRST, asked them if they were interested, they worked out some kind of ballpark trade. Then we low-balled Zac, knowing he would reject it and then sometime soon after Geelong 'conveniently' calls up Zac's management and asks if he's interested moving across for significantly more money.
Even if it didn't happen exactly like that, I think it's clear Zac was pushed out the door as a sacrifice to secure Marchbank.
I understand why the club might have chosen such a strategy, and as a result I don't resent Zac for leaving.
For a 'salary dump' type trade to work, the player would have to agree to it. Can't see Griffen wanting to come to Carlton in that scenario.
Only possibility I could see would be Griffen & Gibbs both going to Adelaide whilst we pick up the bill.
Only possibility I could see would be Griffen & Gibbs both going to Adelaide whilst we pick up the bill.
I don't think Geelong was our preferred destination due to their lack of currency, but everything else sounds about right.
Thing is Kelly *may* be out the door. They would want to replace him with a fully developed out and out gun mid. Martin, IMO, is the second best player going around after dangerfield. They will want to improve their best 18. Losing Kelly (who may want to leave), Hopper (who isnt in their best 22 when their list is healthy, despite obvious potential), Griffen (who is in their 'please get him off the list anyway possible' basket), and Whitfield (who is the type of player that is decent in a very good team, and would possibly have his weaknesses come out a little more in a poorer team- i.e. cherry on top player, rather than a player you build a winning team around). I would think they are quite happy to lose these guys to get an elite game changer that can kick goals and add a bit of mongrel to an essentially soulless team.
IMO Kelly, Griffen and another player is entirely plausible for pick 3. Its more of an indictment on where our list is at, but Griffen would possibly be getting regular games for us in 2018. At worst he can play out his contract in the VFL while adding reasonable back up for injuries.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
Fair comment, John.
But if we could tie up an early, in-principle agreement with anyone, it would be Geelong. They are fair traders, don't muck around and pay what they need to. And we might have even owed them a favour after they 'overpaid' for Hendo. I think the Tuohy trade probably evened that out.
Plus I think we knew we would need a first rounder. If we managed to get a much better first rounder than Geelong's, it was only going to end up at GWS anyway. Like with Plowman, when I was underwhelmed by pick 28, considering we hung onto it for 3 secs, it didn't matter...
I guess technically Kelly isn't a moneyball type player because he is so highly rated, but his numbers for his age and experience suggest he is worth the attention he is receiving.
If Kelly is rated better than anyone in this draft by SOS (fair chance), I think recruiting him is a no-brainer (if we can lure him). Pick 3 and say 20 for Kelly would be well worth it for a player of his calibre.
I don't think this would be a move to fast track our rebuild and I don't see this as throwing all our eggs in one basket. We need quality, plain and simple, and if we can get a guy in the right age bracket with the guess work taken out about whether or not he is star material at AFL level then we should take it. Taking Kelly is smart recruiting and playing the percentages, not a "messiah" type deal, especially after we have already hit the draft so hard.
I really hope we can get Kelly and Hopper, it would be absolutely enormous for our club.
If Kelly is rated better than anyone in this draft by SOS (fair chance), I think recruiting him is a no-brainer (if we can lure him). Pick 3 and say 20 for Kelly would be well worth it for a player of his calibre.
I don't think this would be a move to fast track our rebuild and I don't see this as throwing all our eggs in one basket. We need quality, plain and simple, and if we can get a guy in the right age bracket with the guess work taken out about whether or not he is star material at AFL level then we should take it. Taking Kelly is smart recruiting and playing the percentages, not a "messiah" type deal, especially after we have already hit the draft so hard.
I really hope we can get Kelly and Hopper, it would be absolutely enormous for our club.
Pretty sure one of the guys in this article is actually SOS wearing a mask.
http://www.9news.com.au/good-news/2...e-friends-trade-an-egg-for-a-lotus-sports-car
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
Haha, Bluella and I were saying on the weekend that we thought SOS was actually this guy...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_red_paperclip
Kelly and Cripps gives us the best centre square midfield if Kruezer and Gibbs stay.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
The way the salary dump works is
Current contract has 1 year to go on $500K.
New club offers $600K over two years.
By leaving, you get an extra $100K (with some tax benefits by spreading your income) and you remain in the footy system for at least one year longer.
Simples.
I don't understand the supposed need to take on a "salary dump" when getting Kelly off their books will be a salary dump for them in itself.
Should Silvagni & Brodie somehow mange to trade in, Kelly,Hopper and Whitfield for says picks 10, 16 (Gibbo's value) & 20 Cas (at best) then that would be the trade of the ages we'd be celebrating for a long time .
It would set up our midfield at the elite level for a decade.
Go Baggers
- Mar 19, 2014
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They may want a replacement, the same as we want another 3 gun mids and a gun FF.
To get what everyone wants, you have to give up alot and i dont think GWS will be willing to give up Kelly/Whitfield/Hopper. Basically their midfield for the next 8 years for one player, no matter how good he is.
Theyre sitting top 4, maybe finish top 2 without Deledio, Griffin and Congilio for most of this year. Whitfield was a late starter as well due to his ban.
If all 4 of them were healthy, i think they would back them 4 to cover Kelly's absence.
Throw in natural progression of Congillio, Whitfiield, Hopper and Toranto. i think they can cover Kelly and im sure they will see it the same.
If we can, or another team, can convince Hopper/Whitfield/devon smith to leave along with Kelly, then of course this changes everything. They may then want to get ready made cover if they lose 2 or 3 young guns.
I expect only that only Kelly will leave and they wont target anyone of any significance, or there will be 3 or 4 players leaving and they will target Martin or some other big fish.
HBF
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RattAttack
Team Captain
Someone on the D&T board claiming that Casboult and his wife spent the bye weekend in WA house hunting.
There wouldn't really be a tax benefit once over the max level for tax.
Tigers would be a bad choice for Cas, supporters will get stuck into him pretty quickly if there is a regress in his goal kicking, which will impact his confidence around the ground. Money aside, think it'd be a bad choice for him to leave the club that has him finally performing well.
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