Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[Toddski]

In the last few years it could have meant.
T. Kelly
Tom Stewart
Luke Ryan

I wonder how this priority access would pan out.

 

[blue healer]

I have it on fairly strong advice, Ratten to Saints is a done deal - he will initially work with Richardson, but will be the man in waiting.

If I were Ratts that's where I'd go. Probably not a long way from the top job either.

 

[Soapy V]

For those unsure about Teague given how our forward line has functioned this year I don't blame you, I myself probably sat in the same camp.

However, I recently found out that Teague is constantly in touch with the players. Phone calls at all hours to see how they're going, if they need any further instructions on a message that was give out at training etc.

The players absolutely love him and think he's been fantastic this year.

Have to remember just how often the ball is coming into the fwd 50 and the quality of those entries. Could be the best forwards coach in the land but you can't do much with what our midfield/half back line dishes up each week in terms of delivery.

Hopefully this can help put a few at ease, as it did for me. Another preseason into Charlie, Harry, TDK etc and hopefully some quality midfield inclusions over the off season, not to mention Doc and Willo and I think we'll hopefully start to see more consistent signs of a much improved forward half next year.

Go Blues.

The contact between the coaches and players is first class. Can’t question efforts or communication.

Are they good coaches? I don’t know but there is a good relationship between players and coaches

As for blaming people blaming Teague for forward line IMO that is ridiculous. Poor midfield and a bunch of raw youngsters is the reason. Like we did against GCS win the midfield and things works so much better

 

[passmark]

I wonder how this priority access would pan out.

I've no idea.

father son type thing maybe, first dibs but can be outbid? Extra list spots or a special categoury like rookie or Cat B.

Don't worry though you can guarantee it will be complicated, convoluted and, if it gives CFC any advantage at all, widely criticised.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

No coach on Earth could get that forward line functioning. Charlie and Harry are the only 2 in there with elite/A grade talent and they're only into their 3rd season.

Once we get rid of Lamb, Wright, Thomas, Garlett and add some decent medium and smalls in there, I'd be very surprised if things didn't turn around.

This is why I'm still in the draft Rankine camp. He's a rare talent and to add someone with those abilities would really start to make it dangerous forward line in a couple of years.

 

[katmanblue]

I agree to a point but there's been a few pack up and go home pretty quick who've turned out pretty well.

Current pies coach and one of our captains in waiting among them .
I was also chatting to a bloke with strong Freo connections yesterday and he says there's a core group of players who simply can't stand Lyon and are demotivated.

Sounds about right.

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[katmanblue]

IMO Cerra won’t be far off Dow as a player. Kids a gun

Agree and I also think he just LOOKS like a Carlton player.

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[katmanblue]

And Lyon may not be there next year. Everyone happy.

Buckley didn't break his contract. I don't think it would be a wise move for Fremantle to let go of their 2017 #5, unless of course someone was desperate to prise him out. What's the worst that can happen? Cerra plays another year and they still get a good compensation for him?

Docherty also didn't break his contract. He played out his two years with The Lions and along with others requested a trade. It's different.

And Cerra hasnt broken his contract either. Just hasnt re-signed. There is also nothing forcing Cerra to stay on past next year.

If Freo make him available this year its their decision.

If Cerra has been upfront and honest with them, whats the issue? Its not like he has cracked the sads and is refusing to play.

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[HARKER]

It is rumoured that Cerra made it clear in his draft interviews that he was keen to stay in Melbourne. This rumour has been around since the day he was drafted. Freo as able to do so, still took the risk to draft him.
And I would say Cerra is every bit in the same conversation as Walsh and Smith. The benefit is he has also shown he can perform to a decent level in the AFL. I think it was the game against Adelaide this year, in approx his 5th game, he had close to 30 touches and was best on ground. I watched that game and was amazed by his cleaness and skills.

What about since? These are stats from subsequent games.
Nothing particularly special in those stats and his average stats are lower than Dows.



Like I said, I'm likely wrong but Cerra just doesn't do it for me. Something worried me about him beforehand and now more so for wanting out before he's really even come in. Big 'no thanks' from me.

 

[HARKER]

And Cerra hasnt broken his contract either. Just hasnt re-signed. There is also nothing forcing Cerra to stay on past next year.
If Freo make him available this year its their decision.
If Cerra has been upfront and honest with them, whats the issue? Its not like he has cracked the sads and is refusing to play.
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Do you really think Freo want to make him available though?
You don't select someone at #5 and want to move them on the next year, unless there's a real issue and if there is.....buyer beware.

 

[Stamos]

And Lyon may not be there next year. Everyone happy.

Buckley didn't break his contract. I don't think it would be a wise move for Fremantle to let go of their 2017 #5, unless of course someone was desperate to prise him out. What's the worst that can happen? Cerra plays another year and they still get a good compensation for him?

Docherty also didn't break his contract. He played out his two years with The Lions and along with others requested a trade. It's different.

There hasn't been a suggestion of Cerra breaking his contract though, only that he won't sign a new one, so Freo may be better trading him a year earlier.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

I don't disagree with anything beyond the lack of pertinence NBA has on the AFL. Richmond aren't the club that I'd be using as an example of what you're talking about either; I'd be talking about Geelong circa 2006-2011. That was a group of mates, who grew up together, choosing to play for less money to stay together. Funny thing, though; they won 2 flags and had the most dominant run purely on the basis of wins vs losses in the AFL history, yet that's 5 years and five years alone that it lasted, and they weren't 4 flags in 5 years kind of dominant.

Canyouhearthedrums posted a comment before, about weak-link vs strong-link sports, as a means of explaining the difference between basketball and AFL, and it's rather pertinent. You're not going to forge a dynasty from five blokes deciding they like each other, not without the rest of the 22 to 35 players (which is the usual norm with regards to how many players you need to win a flag) playing at the level required to keep their team above the rest. Richmond are an anomaly in that they have had the most amazing run with injuries over a period of 18-20 months that I've ever seen when compared to how most of their key opposition in the flag hunt have suffered crucial injuries, often while playing the Tigers.

I'm pretty sure that we can agree that FA as it works in the AFL is not a good system for the bottom clubs, although I'd be interested in examining that fact with regards to the actual data (proving who goes where, who leaves who, and if there is genuinely a bias from players towards the clubs at the top of the ladder). But AFL players - even the best ones - cannot earn enough to make it worth their while to take a pay cut of the kinds you're suggesting, not when the average AFL career is 3 years at about $375 thousand dollars a year.

I get basketball and I think the dynamics of the NBA are vastly changing and it’s not pretty.

We are far from them of course, in all aspects. Our cap is going up though. More players will enter free agency and the eligibility will be brought forward IMO. We certainly aren’t following the NFL model.

I think if you asked Lord Dangerfield he’d admit what he’s angling for.

You make very good points about Geelong but FA was only just about to be a thing then, The next few years will tell a bit I think.

I can’t dispute the list depth argument though, you’ve got me there. If 2 or 3 mates joined one team in the one off-season though, where a gun team already existed, that’d test it I think.

Hard to pull off $$$ wise but it’s an ever changing landscape, you never know. Commercial deals might start getting bigger for players, these Eddie and Max Gawn Google ads go ok. Think it’s just something to keep an eye on.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Do you really think Freo want to make him available though?
You don't select someone at #5 and want to move them on the next year, unless there's a real issue and if there is.....buyer beware.

Is it only down to Cerra if he wants out a year earlier?

Maybe Freo have done something to cause him to want out...

 

[blue healer]

There hasn't been a suggestion of Cerra breaking his contract though, only that he won't sign a new one, so Freo may be better trading him a year earlier.

I don't understand this developing view that it's better to trade a player when he is contracted.

If the player is highly sought after and at the beginning of his career why is he worth more this year than next?

I reckon there will be just as many lining up for Cerra next year as there is this year. Just silly if Freo blink here unless, as Harks points out, there's something about him that Freo don't like.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

I’m a big fan of Cerra but I also think that a player should at least have to hold up his first 2 year contract.

I’d be pretty annoyed if Zac Fisher or SPS wanted WA after 12 months having spent our first 2 draft picks on them that year.

 

[Gavstar]

I don't understand this developing view that it's better to trade a player when he is contracted.

If the player is highly sought after and at the beginning of his career why is he worth more this year than next?

I reckon there will be just as many lining up for Cerra next year as there is this year. Just silly if Freo blink here unless, as Harks points out, there's something about him that Freo don't like.

Player can take nuclear option and walk to draft once his contract expires and his ex-team gets nothing. Can't do that in contract.

Pity he's not out of contract this year given our ladder position!

 

[slashin_velvet]

I don't understand this developing view that it's better to trade a player when he is contracted.

If the player is highly sought after and at the beginning of his career why is he worth more this year than next?

I reckon there will be just as many lining up for Cerra next year as there is this year. Just silly if Freo blink here unless, as Harks points out, there's something about him that Freo don't like.

The prevailing view is because an uncontracted player can go into the preseason draft where the team then gets nothing.

It doesn't happen often, but a team with contracted player might get better value when they aren't "forced" to trade a player. Not too dissimilar to GWS with Shiel. If they get the right trade, they might be willing to let him go this year, rather than wait and gamble on free agency compensation.

 

[Boy with chook]

Re GWS - exactly. Once that initial flag has been won the ties for some of their players will loosen.
I’m really riding them in this year finals. Get it done Giants!

 

[Soapy V]

I’m a big fan of Cerra but I also think that a player should at least have to hold up his first 2 year contract.

I’d be pretty annoyed if Zac Fisher or SPS wanted WA after 12 months having spent our first 2 draft picks on them that year.

What if the player says I’ll be going home next year anyway? Does the club want to develop him for another year or let him sit in the reserves where his value drops?

Club may well be happy to move him on, get some value now and replace with a player that wants to be at the club

 

[Arr0w]

What if the player says I’ll be going home next year anyway? Does the club want to develop him for another year or let him sit in the reserves where his value drops?

Club may well be happy to move him on, get some value now and replace with a player that wants to be at the club

Think Buckley made it clear he was going to Victoria as soon as he was drafted, so while not common, does happen

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

What if the player says I’ll be going home next year anyway? Does the club want to develop him for another year or let him sit in the reserves where his value drops?

Club may well be happy to move him on, get some value now and replace with a player that wants to be at the club

It’s a fair point mate but I’d throw back at you what happens if the same scenario comes up 12 months later? Freo trade again? It’d be a never ending cycle.

I’ll clarify by saying I mean trading him for a draft pick. If it was for another player they deemed worthy and wanted to be there it’d be a different story.

 

[katmanblue]

Do you really think Freo want to make him available though?
You don't select someone at #5 and want to move them on the next year, unless there's a real issue and if there is.....buyer beware.

Ok.

You can make up your mind about a kid based on something he HASN'T done but might, just might.
This is all because he hasn't signed an extension (yet) and some wild speculation on BF.

I won't.

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[CrippasHeavyLoad]

Agree. And iirc, he actually did crack the 30 possessions. Would love to get Cerra over here.

Shiel via FA + Cerra via trade (our 2019 1st should do it).

Beats drafting another kid next year. Of course Kelly would be the prime target and we'd happily offer up our 2019 and 2020 1st's for him, but not sure we can get both Shiel and Kelly off GWS...

If Kelly leaves GWS it will be for North with his family connection.

Why do so many think we’d have any chance of luring Kelly to Carlton???

 

[slashin_velvet]

What if the player says I’ll be going home next year anyway? Does the club want to develop him for another year or let him sit in the reserves where his value drops?

Club may well be happy to move him on, get some value now and replace with a player that wants to be at the club

And as long as the we aren't trying to screw freo over, then everyone can get what they want. As opposed to freo waiting a year until he's out of contract where the recieving club offers nothing for him.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If Kelly leaves GWS it will be for North with his family connection.

Why do so many think we’d have any chance of luring Kelly to Carlton???

Why rule out any chance even if it is unlikely?

If Kelly says he wants to go home to Vic, I'd be very surprised if we didn't throw our hat in the ring.