Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread - The sequel - I know what SOS did last Sumner

[luke livingston seagull]

Buckley has more upside than Graham/Tutt/Jones/Whiley/jacksh/and all the other cloggers poncing around collecting their earn for just being there and making up the numbers on the worst list in AFL.

But... none of them even play for Richmond?

 

[Arr0w]

I think Lyon is a good footballer, but it is easier to play in that Adelaide side, given the talent. Question you have to ask, is what impact could he have in our side.

Personally, with our current list, he would be in our best 22 in the short term

If Gibbs was traded and Lyon was the only current best 22 at Adelaide with their first round, I would rather we obtain more or upgrade current picks


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[Soapy V]

We would be crazy to trade him we only have 3 A Grade midfielders Cripps, Gibbs and Murphy and people want to get rid of 1.

depends on the deal. if it gets us an a grade that is younger or a gun draft pick or both its worth consideration. also taking gibbs pay out of our salary cap may allow us to get another gun player in in 12 months time. its never that simple

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

My overall point is we are now run by a competant coach and list manager and they will only trade Gibbs for 13 if they think it advantages us.

#13 and #15 back from GWS traded to GCS for #4. Throw in Everitt if they still want him.

 

[Blue and Silver]

It's an old chicken-egg proposition:

Is Lyons good because he plays in a good side or is the side good because it has players like Lyons?

 

[agro]

Got 4 right other one is from left field can't give no more

Left field better not be a salary dump favour - otherwise we are reaming ourselves just like we did last year.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Would be happy with Hopper as well.

No way Hopper! Boy I would love him at Carlton though!

 

[TheHunterCripps]

My overall point is we are now run by a competant coach and list manager and they will only trade Gibbs for 13 if they think it advantages us.

That's not what you said.

And yes, when you have competant people in charge, every trade we do is advantageous to us.

List managers sometimes think a trade is advantageous, and it is not. Every trade the new administration do is not by definition advantageous to us.

You have to judge the individual trade on its merits. Gibbs for 13 is a joke, coloured by your unique view that Gibbs provided conditional effort when Murph went down despite not being able to show any evidence for it. The whole team suffered without Murph. Gibbs was not alone. For reference there are not many posters on the AFC board who think pick 13 alone is enough. Check it out. Most realise it's not enough.

 

[Das2Blue]

Marchbank, Pickett, McKenna and Stewart.

Barrett will be the other one.
Corr is unwilling to move and the club is unwilling to trade him.
Pitty that we couldn't somehow get Kelly in there.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-14/delisted-whos-on-the-chopping-block-at-your-club
go back a few weeks and this article thinks both Pat Mckenna and Jack Barrett are likely to be delisted at year end...i really hope these are not the 5 players as there seems a little to much hope involved on our part ,

 

[Ruckus]

The '5 for 5' deal would sit a lot easier with me if it included Steele; barring some sort of pleasant surprise with the fifth name, on face value it really looks like Marchbank + four sets of steak knives.

Those steak knives are likely to be handy and in and out of our 22 for the next couple of years, but along with a couple of the GWS discards of last year, I have my doubts that they're likely to figure long-term - and if they're not going to be list-worthy in 4-5 years, when we're likely to be aiming to 'peak' from this rebuild, then why trade them in at all? A lot of ifs and maybes, but the bloke we could snare with pick 5 might be really hitting his straps by then.

Far more enthused by Hrovat than any of these fringe GWS types - Pickett in particular I see as a stretch. Will be very happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think he's made of the right stuff to make it long-term.

Still, happy to reserve overall judgement of Silvagni's strategy until the end of 2018 - let's hope he gets lucky with some of these guys he's going to recruit for a second time.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Interestingly, I have a bet going with a mate of mine that Hopper will turn out a better player than Mills


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I think he will! Kid is class!

 

[Just Kreuzing]

No way Hopper! Boy I would love him at Carlton though!

Agree, if not I will settle for Tobey Greene though.

 

[BobP]

I never wanted to trade pick 5, but I think we have to be a bit measured here.

As some have already mentioned, maybe SOS finds this draft class unimpressive or very even, meaning we can afford to neglect the draft or trade down and still pick up talent equivalent to that of the top 10

If pick 5 was being shafted for Marchbank and a talent such as Hopper as well as the extras, I would be quite happy with that. We see an increase in depth and quality, as well as an injection of quality through the midfield.

I refuse to believe the Gibbs rumor though, I'd be skeptical about Gibbs for 13 and Lyon let alone the ridiculous suggestion that we'd trade Gibbs and 24 for Lyon and 13.

 

[No1Suspect]

More than likely 5 players will be involved in the deal but Steele won't be one of them

Instantly lost interest in the trade now you've dropped this....

 

[TerryWallet]

That's not what you said.



List managers sometimes think a trade is advantageous, and it is not. Every trade the new administration do is not by definition advantageous to us.

You have to judge the individual trade on its merits. Gibbs for 13 is a joke, coloured by your unique view that Gibbs provided conditional effort when Murph went down despite not being able to show any evidence for it. The whole team suffered without Murph. Gibbs was not alone. For reference there are not many posters on the AFC board who think pick 13 alone is enough. Check it out. Most realise it's not enough.

If we get Pick 13 for Gibbs, will you say that it is a terrible deal..or..that that is what the competant people who know him best value him at going forward?

You do what you think is advantageous at the time. Hindsight can bite anyone. Competant people usually get bitten far less though.

If we think exchanging Gibbs for as high a Pick as we can get for him is advantageous for the club, then we do it.

Adelaide is his suitor and only possible destination and they have Pick 13.

Which i am sure is about his industry rating.

 

[My name geoff]

We will have to disagree. One improved, one went backwards. On available information, Whiley reached his ceiling last year, Lyons hasn't even approached his. Crows had depth and Lyons kept them out.

What you and I call depth are two different things.

The crows weakness was their midfield, specifically because their 5th best midfielder was Jaryd Lyons as opposed to the side who beat them who had Isaac Heeney as their 5th best mid.

This is why they are looking at every other teams midfielders, because players like Lyons and CEY, can't cut it with better sides midfield's.

 

[LanceRomance]

Got 4 right other one is from left field can't give no more

hmmmm. Heath Shaw or Ryan Griffen..

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Got 4 right other one is from left field can't give no more

Which 4 are correct?

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Do rate

Gun.

 

[Heres Waite]

Left field better not be a salary dump favour - otherwise we are reaming ourselves just like we did last year.

Lol, no way we reamed ourselves last year ...

... we turned Menzel (0 games) into Kerridge (21 games), Plowman (19 games), Phillips (16 games), Sumner (16 games), and Lamb! (15 games).

The Crows trading in Menzel meant the squeezing out of Wright ... next minute 22 games and our leading goal scorer!!

Add to that the drafting of Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cuners, and SOSOS.

Our list is in a bad state, yes I agree, but it has nothing to do with what SOS did last year!

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Wilson is a jet & I strongly suspect he is the 5th #strongly

 

[Arr0w]

Gibbs's value is at its highest point this year, it won't get any better. Our premiership window will not open for at least 4 years. If Adelaide want him and Gibbs is open to returning home, start the negotiations


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[Stamos]

Mate, i've watched every Carlton game this century, and some of the last

Pick 13 is a bloody good pick for us in our situation.

And hell, without Gibbs we might tumble from say, 14th.....to 14th.

Take Gibbs out of the team this year and we would have won at most 3 games. If we trade him to genuinely improve our team so be it, but pick 13 is not doing that.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Premiership window is utter bollocks.

 

[JustaBattler]

This makes no sense.

You can be a competent list manager and still make mistakes. Agreed?

The competence of a list manager will be assessed on their body of work. Agreed?

The beneficial outcome of an individual trade should be assessed on that individual trade. Agreed?

Most posters on this forum are saying is that Gibbs is worth more than pick 13. Agreed?

Agree with all you say except for bolded point...where you are:

ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

A list manager is a portfolio manager - and should be assessed on the performance over time of the portfolio of players he (in SOS's case a male) put together. This is why mistakes ( inevitable) have to be significantly outnumbered by success. in the context of list performance against other lists.

As for Gibbs - dont worry aboput Gibbsy - his real talent is maximising whatever leverage he has - He is AA in that regard.

Any trade/draft scenario HAS to be seen as part of a strategy - which we aren't privy to in detail. Which is why thesse threads go on and on and on - pspeculation with little cost to reputation - a free ride on posting.