Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[The Flying Doormat]

I still think we are a fair chance to get pick 2 if he leaves. Obviously the AFL want Brisbane to be up and running, but their list is quite a bit better than ours and I think the AFL know this.

If we take the 'letter of the law' and based on previous compo arrangements, a 3 year $500,000+ / year contract for Kreuzer should give us pick #2.
However, this is the AFL, and the sting could well be in the final sentence...'materially anomalous result' aka 'The Carlton Clause'

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

 

[Heres Waite]

Background information - I am in full agreement (with those that think) that Garry Lyon is a flog

Was listening to the game today and GL said something that surprisingly was constructive about Carlton and that I think actually is a good idea (pending various pissings-off) - Menzel and Clem basically shadowing Ed Curnow around all of next season. In GL's words - when Ed runs, they run. Doesn't sound like much, but I think Ed and Crippa should run some kind of bootcamp for a few of the players who only bust a portion of their gut.

A few days ago there was an article where Walker was encouraging all the young guys to get on the same program Cripps started last off season. Ii don't know if this was an off the cuff comment, but I actually really hope this happens! Our fitness has been horrible this year (what is Buttifant doing down there). I think we have an awesome opportunity to change the culture around the club. I would love to see the young guys take the lead on this and push each other to get better, get fitter, and to hold each other accountable. Get some healthy and fun competition happening amongst the group. BTW, listening to the way Bolton talks, and with him having an education background, I think this is actually going to happen.

 

[HBF]

Weitering and shache is a good place to start the rebuild a chb and a full forward and maybe Carlisle pick 1 in psd our spine could be set up for a long time. Good building blocks for bolton to start

Was thinking the same thing on the way out of the ground. Hate finishing last, but we might as well use the system to our advantage.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Boy I feel sorry for Weitering. Carrying the weight of our expectations will be such a heavy burden. Remember what we did to Livingston not too long ago. If only it was as easy as picking big draft picks to get us back to being a successful footy club. We just aren't good at developing our youngsters. Despite a significant amount of money thrown into our football department in recent times, skills development is is bad as it was under the Pagan era.

 

[RedFury]

If we take the 'letter of the law' and based on previous compo arrangements, a 3 year $500,000+ / year contract for Kreuzer should give us pick #2.
However, this is the AFL, and the sting could well be in the final sentence...'materially anomalous result' aka 'The Carlton Clause'

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

I hadn't read that. I agree with you that, unfortunately, you've just highlighted why we won't get pick 2 if Kreuzer leaves.

 

[Mezzoculo]

Geez. Lighten up on the whole 'the AFL hate us and will find a way to rort us if a high pick' vibe, folks. Y'all are starting to sound like the delusional types over on the * board...

 

[Jabba73]

I heard that too. 99% of the list should be made to follow and keep up with Ed over pre season

Not even Ed Curnow could keep up with Ed Curnow, that guy is a running machine.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

The Herald Superfooty website is running with the story that we will farewell Kreuzer and definitely get band 1 compo for him.

The people at Commission level who hated us are long gone .. We are definitely getting picks 1 and 2 from the sounds of it.

 

[Heres Waite]

Not even Ed Curnow could keep up with Ed Curnow, that guy is a running machine.

Imagine Charlie (if we got him) and Ed at training. Brother rivalry. I can see them smashing the 3 k time trial record and then turning around and running it again just for kicks.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Geez. Lighten up on the whole 'the AFL hate us and will find a way to rort us if a high pick' vibe, folks. Y'all are starting to sound like the delusional types over on the * board...

I'm not delusional...materially anomalous perhaps

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The Herald Superfooty website is running with the story that we will farewell Kreuzer and definitely get band 1 compo for him.

The people at Commission level who hated us are long gone .. We are definitely getting picks 1 and 2 from the sounds of it.

http://www.news.com.au/national/car...r-a-draft-bounty/story-e6frfkp9-1227514452373

 

[Dramoth]

The Herald Superfooty website is running with the story that we will farewell Kreuzer and definitely get band 1 compo for him.

The people at Commission level who hated us are long gone .. We are definitely getting picks 1 and 2 from the sounds of it.

No name on the article. A lot of conjecture in there as well as to what is on offer.

If they are offering him, 450-500k, then we will match it because thats the next pay level up from what he is on now. It's not a massive upgrade in salary. The only thing that they don't mention is the length of the contracts on offer. Carlton apparently won't match anything more than 2 years, but the salary they are offering Kreuzer is the same that the other clubs apparently have on offer... if you believe that 450-500k total.

All the club needs to do is meet Kreuzer half way on the length of his desired contract with the option for a 4th year and he would sign in a flash I reckon.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

No name on the article. A lot of conjecture in there as well as to what is on offer.

If they are offering him, 450-500k, then we will match it because thats the next pay level up from what he is on now. It's not a massive upgrade in salary. The only thing that they don't mention is the length of the contracts on offer. Carlton apparently won't match anything more than 2 years, but the salary they are offering Kreuzer is the same that the other clubs apparently have on offer... if you believe that 450-500k total.

All the club needs to do is meet Kreuzer half way on the length of his desired contract with the option for a 4th year and he would sign in a flash I reckon.

The likelyhood of us getting pick 2 is too tempting for SOS and the club to pass up, in my opinion.

We all love Kreuzer, and I'd be very happy for him to stay, but the Brisbane result today is a game changer with regards to Kreuzer I suspect..

 

[Seen5]

Geez. Usually you see the best side of these decisions, but to see Kreuzer leave, despite the compensation... Ouch... But the compensation is good.

What a crappy day in football. Bring on cricket season.




And 2016. Go Blues.

 

[Jabba73]

Would not have changed much, there are too many other variables to believe that a one position change in the draft order will stamp the papers for Kreuzer.

 

[GT619]

Was thinking the same thing on the way out of the ground. Hate finishing last, but we might as well use the system to our advantage.

The only way is up. We cant get any more worse or lower than this lol... start from scratch and do a hawthorn ala buddy/roughy combo build the club around crippa, casboult, weitering, hopefully shache and maybe Carlisle

 

[Koutafidamedis]

Terry Wallace on SEN said that with FA compo picks the AFL can only give Rd 1 compo, rd 2 compo etc. There is no end of first rd or middle of first rd compo.

 

[HBF]

The only way is up. We cant get any more worse or lower than this lol... start from scratch and do a hawthorn ala buddy/roughy combo build the club around crippa, casboult, weitering, hopefully shache and maybe Carlisle

Yeah we really need to start again.
We've pretty much going to build the playing list again.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

Terry Wallace on SEN said that with FA compo picks the AFL can only give Rd 1 compo, rd 2 compo etc. There is no end of first rd or middle of first rd compo.

I'll be annoyed if it's pick 21.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If we take the 'letter of the law' and based on previous compo arrangements, a 3 year $500,000+ / year contract for Kreuzer should give us pick #2.
However, this is the AFL, and the sting could well be in the final sentence...'materially anomalous result' aka 'The Carlton Clause'

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

So this clause could contend that it is irregular to give a tier one compo pick for Kruezer because he hasn't featured in our B&F and hasn't been All Australian for example and use Frawley's 2010 AA spot as a defining factor.

I think they should be able to advise us of this prior to Kreuzer leaving, knowing the ins and outs of the offers if they so desired.

 

[AceAndy]

I'll be annoyed if it's pick 21.

I am not sure the band 1 compensation for MK is the absolute certainty that some are so excited about.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Understand your point, I was talking more in the realm of Kreuzer wanting to stay (which by all accounts bar Robbo is true) and the club FORCED him into free agency and thus out the club.

The GWS offer is not true....well 2 years ago it was, keep in mind they signed all bar Treloar this year so it is impossible to fond another 1 mil a year for Kreuze.

Styxx, my understanding is that Kreuzer was set to sign. The deal was made and agreed to. However, a big offer came in, both in terms of dollars and duration and Kreuzer has not signed what we had essentially agreed to. Matty is making the decision and the club are allowing him to do that. At this stage, about the only thing Carlton are not doing is matching, and Matty can still stay if we don't match. Whether today's events will have the club urging him to take the other deal, I do not know.

 

[Mezzoculo]

I am not sure the band 1 compensation for MK is the absolute certainty that some are so excited about.

If it's all about 'pick 2' then the club can just make sure Kreuzer's suitors know Carlton will match any offer that doesn't net us said pick...

 

[Teagueeee15]

So this clause could contend that it is irregular to give a tier one compo pick for Kruezer because he hasn't featured in our B&F and hasn't been All Australian for example and use Frawley's 2010 AA spot as a defining factor.

I think they should be able to advise us of this prior to Kreuzer leaving, knowing the ins and outs of the offers if they so desired.

I agree and there's a problem with the lack of transparency about how the AFL weights the factors when determining compensation. I'm a bit less anxious with the player being a restricted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent. Being a restricted free agent means that we have 3 days after being notified of Kreuzer's offer to hold 'discussions' with the AFL about what compensation we could expect. If we are told to expect band 1 compensation then we should let the player go and if we are told to expect band 2 compensation then we should match the offer as it probably wouldn't be too extreme seeing as it didn't trigger band 1.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I am not sure the band 1 compensation for MK is the absolute certainty that some are so excited about.

It is based on salary, checked that one off.
Age .... well he will be 4 months older than Frawley was when they granted that one so ... they'd have a hard time suggesting a real difference there.

It is only this anamolous result clause that could change it whereby they might argue Kreuzer hadn't shown himself to be elite at any stage and couldn't expect to generate some compensation for the team losing him. Frawley was AA once so they have something to point to.