Board dictates player list?

[4blues]

Why did the club keep Pagan if they wont let him have the players he wants? Dictating to the coach that only certain aged players are to be recruited means more poor performances both on and off the field.When did the board decide on this under 24 policy? Obviously not lately when you look at Clarke, Harford, martyn, bowyer, saddington,McLaren, longmuir. The club has first pick in the PSD and at this rate there will be no one to pick, its time smorgon handed back the players to the coach and let him do his job.

 

[Da Bull]

Time to get a board that has a clue about football.

 

[CharlieG]

The situation is rapidly becoming untenable for Pagan. Shocking situation - a board that can't sack instead undermining him at every opportunity (and hurting the club more in the process) and a proud man who knows he's a lame duck but is unwilling to walk away from a commitment he made.

Complete farce. My respect for Pagan (who I have not believed has the answers for Carlton for the last three years) has gone up considerably... the board, on the other hand...

 

[jj1978]

Smorgon is a num-nutt!

Maybe all the talk about him being a crud president has made him think he needs to go out and blow his trumpet and be Mr Powerful.

Unfortunately for him he's come off yet again as a Doof and he'll definitely win tool-of-the-week on Before the Game this weekend.

Clueless fool.

 

[SA Blue]

Again, stop over reacting people. Many clubs have this policy, ie we just just ripped it of St Kilda.

I don't see how having youth policy which has been in place for a while now undermines Pagan.

 

[sticks74]

Again, stop over reacting people. Many clubs have this policy, ie we just just ripped it of St Kilda.

I don't see how having youth policy which has been in place for a while now undermines Pagan.

True True SA Blue...
Maybe Just Maybe this decision was made after they agreed Gardiner wasnt an option...Board dictates list and undermines Pagan, posters are no better than Carro!

 

[4blues]

Again, stop over reacting people. Many clubs have this policy, ie we just just ripped it of St Kilda.

I don't see how having youth policy which has been in place for a while now undermines Pagan.

Ok SA, how old is Saddington and McLaren? Thats the hole point, neither will be at carlton in 5 years or play 100 games, yet according to Smorgan this youth policy has been in place for 2 years, if its been in place why in the hell did we recruit these guys? Or is it just another way to undermine Pagan?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It just leaves us with nowhere to go if a player over 24 suddenly becomes available in the PSD. Never say never, always keep your options open.

 

[SA Blue]

Both would be hoping to play 100 games. There is defintiely time for both, ability though?

How does it undermine Pagan though? No one had made a logical argument in how it undermines him.

 

[4blues]

Both would be hoping to play 100 games. There is defintiely time for both, ability though?

How does it undermine Pagan though? No one had made a logical argument in how it undermines him.

Shouldnt it be pagan who decides what players we need? So if Goodes became available we would over look him, because our coach cant recruit players over 24. Since when has the president known more about players than the coach? A player at 27 or 28 could still play over 100 games and give great service, yet he wouldnt fit our youth policy.

 

[Jeremias]

As long as the board dictates that under no circumstances do we get Michael Gardiner, I don't mind.

 

[4blues]

As long as the board dictates that under no circumstances do we get Michael Gardiner, I don't mind.

Im fine with that too, but smorgon has said that " I wish to make it very clear that CFC will strictly adhere to the clubs youth policy in both the national and PSD, as well as during trade period" So if a great player becomes available and is aged 27 we have to over look him, even if Pagan beleives that the player might be the difference between winning and loosing some games. If Pagan beleives that a player is right for the club shouldnt he have the final say, not Smorgan?








'

 

[SA Blue]

Shouldnt it be pagan who decides what players we need? So if Goodes became available we would over look him, because our coach cant recruit players over 24. Since when has the president known more about players than the coach? A player at 27 or 28 could still play over 100 games and give great service, yet he wouldnt fit our youth policy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does the policy state no one over 24, or can't play 100 games. If a player is 27, but is capable of 4-5 seasons then we can still recruit as 100 games is capable.

I also think it is a pretty minor thing as it is very rare that a good player who is 25+ comes onto the market.

 

[4blues]

Correct me if I am wrong, but does the policy state no one over 24, or can't play 100 games. If a player is 27, but is capable of 4-5 seasons then we can still recruit as 100 games is capable.

I also think it is a pretty minor thing as it is very rare that a good player who is 25+ comes onto the market.

Sorry SA you are wrong, read the article at www.heraldsun.com.au under the heading Gardiners hopes sink.

 

[Jeremias]

I think that the comments are being blown way out of proportion.

Obviously, if a player of the calibre of Goodes became available, then we would be interested. But, the statement was made to stop us recruiting players like we have over the last few years-Longmuir, Chambers and Saddigton.

Huge difference between a player like Goodes and the other 3.

 

[bibi01]

if pagan is held responsible for our onfield performances then he should have the final say in who we trade, pick and play.
yes there needs to be some guidleines in place and a general agreement within the club on the direction we are heading.

i have no issue with a youth policy, but IMO you can't have a set criteria of 24 years or younger.
we need to assess every player available on an induvidual basis.

if james clement was available this season would he be the type of player you would like at the club?

if the board are dictating to pagan how he runs the footy dept, then IMO the board are responsible for our off-field and our on-field performances.

the board would be deeply offended if people from other dept's in the club told them how to run their patch, so why should they be able to dictate to the footy dept?

this board re appointed pagan and 2 1/2 weeks ago agreed not to terminate his contract, they need to have the balls to stand by their decision of keeping pagan and let him get on wth the job at hand.

the big issue for me is the way things are being run at the club, there is no professionalism, there is no structure and there is no confidence and we have too many cooks in the kitchen.

coaches are specialist in thier field, juts like recruiters are, fitness staff, marketing dept, communications people and just like the board are

the board need to worry about board isses not footy dept issues.

 

[DIG]

the board need to worry about board isses not footy dept issues.

exactly!

 

[SA Blue]

Sorry SA you are wrong, read the article at www.heraldsun.com.au under the heading Gardiners hopes sink.

Cheers. I don't think it is a major issue, but I see the point.

 

[Blah Blah Blue]

if the board are dictating to pagan how he runs the footy dept, then IMO the board are responsible for our off-field and our on-field performances.

I don't think our board would take responsibility for anything and they won't be accused of leadership either.

In essence what Smorgon said is not fundamently wrong, it was the way he said it and the undermining / lack of support feel that it conveyed about the coach that offended me.

I want Pagan to stay however, for sake of argument, if he could get the St Kilda job I would not blame him for telling the board to stick the Carlton job up it's ...

He won't because he is a man of integrity and despite everything seems to genuinly want to stay with Blues.

 

[bibi01]

this post is not about supporting pagan it's regarding the board and footy dept matters.

last season the board wanted to get rid of fevola and fevola was going to leave, until fevola had a meeting with pagan and they came to an agreement to stay.

does this board have the right mix of people on it to be making smart football decisions?- clarly letting fevola go last would not have been a good football decision for Carlton FC (yes hindsight is a great thing)

the way the pagan v mitchell saga was handled was also another example of the board making a poor decision.

the reason you have footy dept's is so the board can appoint who they belive will do the best job and allow them to get on with their job

 

[Bluebear]

Ok SA, how old is Saddington and McLaren? Thats the hole point, neither will be at carlton in 5 years or play 100 games, yet according to Smorgan this youth policy has been in place for 2 years, if its been in place why in the hell did we recruit these guys? Or is it just another way to undermine Pagan?

McLaren D.O.B 05/05/82 = 23 when drafted, 24 now.

I know this is slightly off topic, but its amazing how the same people who say ruckmen don't mature until they are 24-25 have already written this guy off.
He's too short and will never make it you say. 194cm?
Jeff White is 195cm and regarded as one of the best rucks in the comp.
O.k. Dylan is no Jeff White but we shouldn't be so quick to ditch him.

 

[bibi01]

FWIW ages of players when recruited to carlton

bannister 21
teague 22
mclaren 23
scotland 23
stevens 23
clarke 23
johnson 23
mott 23

chambers 24
mcgrath 24
bowyer 24

saddington 25
longmuir 25
morell 25
french 26
harford 27
martyn 33

 

[Jimthegreat]

The situation is rapidly becoming untenable for Pagan. Shocking situation - a board that can't sack instead undermining him at every opportunity (and hurting the club more in the process) and a proud man who knows he's a lame duck but is unwilling to walk away from a commitment he made.

Complete farce. My respect for Pagan (who I have not believed has the answers for Carlton for the last three years) has gone up considerably... the board, on the other hand...

Pagan's a stubborn pr1ck and his ego won't let him leave, especially with 1.2 mil on the line. Don't think for a minute he's being principled and noble to our cause. Our club's a disaster, with no small measure to him and his 21 wins in 88 matches to match his 2 Spoons.

Generally speaking, that's the idea, believe it or not, to make his position untenable. If they can't pay him out (they can take Fraser's money), they'll make life as untenable as possible and hope he walks. That's why they'll make Mitchell his assisant too as well as loading him up with other assistants he dosen't get on with. Then, of course, there'll probably be a Board challenge later in the year, which will make Pagan dead on the water if it's successful. If I was Pagan I'd be twisting St.Kilda's, or even Geelong's, arm, where he can start again fresh and hopefully learn his lessons from here.

Be happy now if they all left (Pagan, Board etc....) and we started again completely fresh. Could only be better off. Chuck them all to the sh1house and go again. If you start winning games you'd be surprised how quickly things, everything around a club, turn around. Nothing like it. At the moment, this is a farce.

 

[Bluebear]

Be happy now if they all left (Pagan, Board etc....) and we started again completely fresh. Could only be better off. Chuck them all to the sh1house and go again. At the moment, this is a farce.

That would be a farce.......and would unsettle the club to the point of distraction and all but cementing our place in 16th for the next couple of years.

 

[sticks74]

That would be a farce.......and would unsettle the club to the point of distraction and all but cementing our place in 16th for the next couple of years.

True... Need to consolidate and move forward..