Bradley Hill, West Perth

[slicedndiced]

My issue is with the assertion that Fremantle could not have taken him because the club didn't have the right culture. Which is complete crap.

He's a lot more confident on the football field than his brother at the same stage if his career.

A statement for which you have offered zero back up.

Words are cheap Clay.

 

[clogged]

A statement for which you have offered zero back up.

You are the one making the assertions without evidence. Eg:

We didn't have the necessary culture, at that stage, (Hawthorn did), to take a punt on him, and not many clubs do.

 

[slicedndiced]

You are the one making the assertions without evidence. Eg:

oh but I did.

The club was in full transition, and a certain amount of turmoil, with Lyons arrival.

Player fitness issues were immediately identified as of concern, as was the overall culture of the playing group in general.

Those aren't assertions, they're facts.

 

[clogged]

oh but I did.

The club was in full transition, and a certain amount of turmoil, with Lyons arrival.

Player fitness issues were immediately identified as of concern, as was the overall culture of the playing group in general.

Those aren't assertions, they're facts.

They're closer to an opinion bound up in weasel words than actual facts.

You show me one piece of evidence that Hill was passed on by clubs because his poor attitude or low fitness (he had a record beep test FFS).

His problem was that he didn't take football as seriously as his brother did until quite late, meaning recruiters weren't quite sure what he might end up being, but that's hardly going to send clubs running to the hills over cultural fit with the club.

 

[Latro]

He's a lot more confident on the football field than his brother at the same stage if his career.

That is because Hawthorn did not play him until he was physically ready IMO.

 

[Bender571]

RTB's judgement on young players shouldn't be taken as gospel, afterall - he delisted Barlow from the Saints rookie list when he was over there.

Granted, Cripps is a first class front runner and seagull - he can find the goals. In most cases the cause leads to the reason why in the first place.

Wat? Barlow has never been with another club, he might've trained with a few, but he's never been on a list.

 

[slicedndiced]

They're closer to an opinion bound up in weasel words than actual facts.

No Clay. Paint it as you will, however they are facts.

You show me one piece of evidence that Hill was passed on by clubs because his poor attitude or low fitness (he had a record beep test FFS).

When did I question his fitness?

Believe what you want, but a heap of people where in denial for a long time about Benny Cousins antics as well, just as many people were unaware of Hill's attitude towards footy and life in general. He was a smart mouth, smart arse who thought that his shit didn't stink because his brother was an AFL footy player. (Yeah, I have a bit to do with aboriginal youth, even when I was living overseas).

His problem was that he didn't take football as seriously as his brother did until quite late, meaning recruiters weren't quite sure what he might end up being, but that's hardly going to send clubs running to the hills over cultural fit with the club.

It was deeper than that, and you are being disingenuous to state otherwise.

There was a question on his skills by foot and his general attitude, but not his overall football ability or fitness.

He got picked at 33 for a reason, and was overlooked by clubs with extremely strong recruiting and developing departments for the better part of 2 rounds.

there is no smoke and mirrors here, just the facts.

 

[Nickos66]

Wat? Barlow has never been with another club, he might've trained with a few, but he's never been on a list.

Whoops, my mistake. He trained with the Saints under Ross and was deemed not worthy of a draft selection, no less.

 

[blue shark]

We had already taken Sheridan, Crozier, at the time we were all talking Kirsten, key forward. Looking back in the draft our local talent was Yeo, Hamling, Kirsten around our pick.

 

[Kram]

This thread is rubbish..

 

[scon]

The attention Stephen gets from the opposition is not restricted to his immediate tag;the entire 22 are instructed to put as much work into him as they can whenever they can.

 

[Nickos66]

This thread is rubbish..

What do you expect after a loss?

 

[scon]

The retired grey ghost bowler OP with the 4x4 will be having a laugh!!

 

[clogged]

When did I question his fitness?

When you cite

Player fitness issues were immediately identified as of concern

as a motivating factor for why a player was not recruited, what other inference can be made?

Believe what you want, but a heap of people where in denial for a long time about Benny Cousins antics as well, just as many people were unaware of Hill's attitude towards footy and life in general. He was a smart mouth, smart arse who thought that his shit didn't stink because his brother was an AFL footy player. (Yeah, I have a bit to do with aboriginal youth, even when I was living overseas).

Stop pretending you have inside knowledge. Being a smart arse is not a red flag for clubs. There are plenty of 18 year olds who are arrogant and mouthy (Chad Wingard from the same draft was similar, Toby Greene is also somewhat of a dickhead). You know no more about Hill than anyone on here.

It was deeper than that, and you are being disingenuous to state otherwise.

There was a question on his skills by foot and his general attitude, but not his overall football ability or fitness.

He got picked at 33 for a reason, and was overlooked by clubs with extremely strong recruiting and developing departments for the better part of 2 rounds.

there is no smoke and mirrors here, just the facts.

One round. He was Hawthorn's first pick and most clubs to that point had only used one draft pick. It was a compromised draft. Few clubs had passed on him more than once.

Stop with the revisionism. He went exactly within the range of where he was predicted to based on what he had shown to that point. He was a not a slider that Hawthorn took a risk on that other clubs had bypassed, nor was he a shock pick taken earlier than expected because people had doubts.

 

[slicedndiced]

When you cite

as a motivating factor for why a player was not recruited, what other inference can be made?

You are better than that. I was clearly referring to the fitness of some already within the Fremantle playing group.

I even mentioned Clancee and Walters in a reply directly in reference to that earlier in the thread.

Weasel words, huh?

Stop pretending you have inside knowledge. Being a smart arse is not a red flag for clubs. There are plenty of 18 year olds who are arrogant (Chad Wingard from the same draft was similar, Toby Greene is also somewhat of a dickhead). You know no more about Hill than anyone on here.

Yes, that's right Clay. No-one here could possibly have some inside knowledge of the club , recruitment and aboriginal youth.

That's just bizarro world stuff. Incredible. It could never happen. Beyond the realms of possibility.

If only you knew.

One round. He was Hawthorn's first pick and most clubs to that point had only used one draft pick. It was a compromised draft. Few clubs had passed on him more than once.

Stop with the revisionism. He went exactly within the range of where he was predicted to based on what he had shown to that point. He was a not a slider that Hawthorn took a risk on that other clubs had bypassed, nor was he a shock pick taken earlier than expected because people had doubts.

oh bullshit.

There were plenty who predicted that he would go higher and many who cried when we didn't pull the trigger.

Based on potential and fitness and not to mention family pedigree, he was clearly a higher pick than 33.

But hey. I am the one making shit up

 

[pokerspiv]

I think it's fair to say that missing Brad Hill was our greatest drafting error since Andrew McLeod. But then I remember that I was ecstatic about Polak and thought that Ballantyne and Fyfe were probably mistakes.

Joel Houghton over Sam Reid was pretty ordinary too.

 

[scon]

Back right off from slagging Joel;he signed one of my shirts.
Sam Reid didn't even offer.

 

[clogged]

You are better than that. I was clearly referring to the fitness of some already within the Fremantle playing group.

I even mentioned Clancee and Walters in a reply directly in reference to that earlier in the thread.

Weasel words, huh?

What do Clancee and Walters fitness issues have to do with a new draftee?

No-one here could possibly have some inside knowledge of the club , recruitment and aboriginal youth.

That's just bizarro world stuff. Incredible. It could never happen. Beyond the realms of possibility.

If only you knew.

OK. You are asserting that you have first hand knowledge that something in Bradley Hill's character led a number of clubs to pass on him. I don't believe you. I don't care how much insight you have into other issues, that does not mean you possess the knowledge you are claiming to have.

oh bullshit.

There were plenty who predicted that he would go higher and many who cried when we didn't pull the trigger.

Based on potential and fitness and not to mention family pedigree, he was clearly a higher pick than 33.

But hey. I am the one making shit up

Where was he predicted to go? Who made the predictions? Where was he clearly stated to be higher than pick 33?

I have no problem with Bradley Hill not being drafted by Freo. But please don't pretend that Fremantle baulked because the club was were worried they wouldn't be able to fit him into the culture, or that the cultural problems were too deep to be able to deal with him.

 

[Kram]

Weren't we gonna draft Cale Hooker but Essendon grabbed him just before our pick at 55 or something? Would have been handy.

 

[slicedndiced]

What do Clancee and Walters fitness issues have to do with a new draftee?

My point again, and you know it, was that the club already had issues with some players fitness and with the overall attitude with the group in general.

Add to that a surprise new coach, who was lauded nationwide as a hard task master, then why potentially add to the dramas within the club by drafting a kid who had a knock on his attitude and commitment?

OK. You are asserting that you have first hand knowledge that something in Bradley Hill's character led a number of clubs to pass on him. I don't believe you. I don't care how much insight you have into other issues, that does not mean you possess the knowledge you are claiming to have.

Believe what you like, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Where was he predicted to go? Who made the predictions? Where was he clearly stated to be higher than pick 33?

I have no problem with Bradley Hill not being drafted by Freo. But please don't pretend that Fremantle baulked because the club was were worried they wouldn't be able to fit him into the culture, or that the cultural problems were too deep to be able to deal with him.

What's this thread about again?? Even though it is a bloody stupid thread to begin with.

I won't tell you anything Clay. You never listen anyway.

 

[clogged]

My point again, and you know it, was that the club already had issues with some players fitness and with the overall attitude with the group in general.

Add to that a surprise new coach, who was lauded nationwide as a hard task master, then why potentially add to the dramas within the club by drafting a kid who had a knock on his attitude and commitment?

Hill was never in their sights at the picks Fremantle had. He might have gone at Forster's pick had they not already picked up two mids, one with excellent fitness and pace in Sheridan, and another with X factor in Crozier. Both of those two were more sure things than Hill at pick 16 & 20. Picking Hill at Forster's pick would have been overkill both in terms of type of player and where he was rated. Hawthorn picked him where they did to complement (or backup) to Isaac Smith, having been found out for lack of pace in 2009 & 2010.

The problem with Hill's non selection by Fremantle is not that he should have been picked by Fremantle, but that he is already playing more complete football than Crozier and Sheridan. This adds flexibility to Hawthorn that allows them to cover when they have players out. So far this season Bradley Hill is averaging 26 disposals per game, 7 of which are contested with a handful of clearances and inside 50s.

With Fyfe and Barlow out, there was no one from the second tier able to step up. Hill did not play much of a match winning role, but he was more of a force than Crozier, Sheridan, Sutcliffe and Neale. My worry is that the side is set up to leave too much to too few, and that the younger brigade aren't being thrown in the deep end enough.

 

[Spirit Level]

I think it's fair to say that missing Brad Hill was our greatest drafting error since Andrew McLeod.

Pitt over Darling says hi

/hindsight

 

[Spirit Level]

This thread is rubbish..

 

[estibador]

Joel Houghton over Sam Reid was pretty ordinary too.

That's what happens when you don't look in your own backyard hey crackerjack4X4?

Oh wait...

 

[Latro]

Sam Reid is not that big a miss. He cannot kick at all.