Brian Lara, How Good Was He?

[woota]

McGrath, Warne and Murali all rated him the best player they bowled to.

Add Stuart Macgill to that list.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Lara's 153 n.o. against australia in 1999 is rated by Wisden as the greatest individual test match innings ever. He was up against the strongest bowling attack in the world (mcgrath, warne, macgill and gillespie all at the peak of their powers), the West Indies were down and out for the count, and Lara won the game off his own bat while his team was crumbling around him. It was the type of innings that only Brian Lara could play.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Took me a few mins to find it but @ 10 mins is the best shot in the history of cricket imo. You've got the best bowler of that generation bowling it in the spot where he took all his wickets and bang.

 

[Schraderbrau]

The scary thing about Lara is that a spent a fair portion of his career not trying very hard.

He's the best batsman I've seen mainly because he's the most destructive. It got to the stage where if he gets past 50 it's game over and a lot of this was in West Indian teams where the only other recognised batsman was shiv. The stats sheet is bullshit, no one has won more test matches off their own sweat than Lara imo.

The great tragedy was that he finished before T20 started up.

I also like comparing him early on in his career to how he finished. When he started he had a technique as good as Tendulkar's but somewhere along the way he realised he was so good that he didn't need technique and just started swinging. I'm not sure which version a liked better tbh.

 

[Schraderbrau]

give him a cricket bad and boundary ropes.

rodney hogg on SEN said no way Bradman averages 100 today. my qualifier, everything they say on SEN is ramped up about two-fold to create a talking point or controversy, see: Dermie for example.

But Lara and KP Kevin Pietersen are the best I have seen eh Meds?

#meds
#Chief, he of unmatched wisdom

medusala

When Bradman played they didn't cover the pitches overnight. If he played on the today's highways he'd probably average 150.

 

[Power Raid]

Lara was glorious at his best

My personal favs were Richards, Tendulkar, Gilchrist and Hussey. All for different reasons

 

[PhatBoy]

When Bradman played they didn't cover the pitches overnight. If he played on the today's highways he'd probably average 150.

They still made colossal scores back then. Headley, Ponsford, Hutton, Hammond, Sandham, Edrich - doubtless there were circumstances when it was harder to bat than now but there were also some feather beds. Fielding standards and probably bowling standards weren't near what they are now.

I've got no doubt Bradman would still be head and shoulders above everyone and average roughly the same as he did but I don't think he'd be managing 150. He also only played in 2 countries, and of the four sides he played against, 3 were the equivalents of minnows.

 

[Hellgood]

The scary thing about Lara is that a spent a fair portion of his career not trying very hard.

He's the best batsman I've seen mainly because he's the most destructive. It got to the stage where if he gets past 50 it's game over and a lot of this was in West Indian teams where the only other recognised batsman was shiv. The stats sheet is bullshit, no one has won more test matches off their own sweat than Lara imo.

The great tragedy was that he finished before T20 started up.

I also like comparing him early on in his career to how he finished. When he started he had a technique as good as Tendulkar's but somewhere along the way he realised he was so good that he didn't need technique and just started swinging. I'm not sure which version a liked better tbh.

I don't buy that insinuation for a second. He was a very ruthlessly minded and obsessive cricketer.

 

[woota]

I don't buy that insinuation for a second. He was a very ruthlessly minded and obsessive cricketer.

LOL you are utterly delusional. It is widely known that there was a period of Lara's career where he lost passion for the game, had a don't-give-a-f*ck-attitude and was even contemplating giving up the game as he believed that cricket had destroyed his life. Former West Indian greats like Michael Holding and others changed Lara's mind, convinced him to continue and got his head right again. If you take out that part of his career then he is probably the best ever (with the obvious exception of The Don).

 

[PhatBoy]

It was really that 99 series against Australia that rekindled it all. After the 5-0 hiding he copped as captain in SA, he was at the end of his tether.

The first test of the 99 series saw them rolled for 52 or something as well and once more the drums were banging.

Pretty fair response - 474 runs in 4 innings.

 

[blackcat]

I don't buy that insinuation for a second. He was a very ruthlessly minded and obsessive cricketer.

the myth-making of sportsmen is always there.... the cycling ones are the funniest, cos they gotta do adequate jobs to be figleafs[sic] (figleaves) for doping, and they always get rehashed in second and third and fourth iterations...

 

[Hellgood]

LOL you are utterly delusional. It is widely known that there was a period of Lara's career where he lost passion for the game, had a don't-give-a-f*ck-attitude and was even contemplating giving up the game as he believed that cricket had destroyed his life. Former West Indian greats like Michael Holding and others changed Lara's mind, convinced him to continue and got his head right again. If you take out that part of his career then he is probably the best ever (with the obvious exception of The Don).

Lara was notably pissed off at administrators and teammates, but he was not the sort to lose passion in his own performance. Regardless of the external circumstances surrounding the side he was an immensely focused and relentless in his pursuit of individual excellence.

 

[PhatBoy]

Lara was notably pissed off at administrators and teammates, but he was not the sort to lose passion in his own performance. Regardless of the external circumstances surrounding the side he was an immensely focused and relentless in his pursuit of individual excellence.

While maintaining 60 was always going to be impossible, he did go from averaging 60 down to 47 at one point so his enthusiasm definitely waned

 

[largebus]

When Bradman played they didn't cover the pitches overnight. If he played on the today's highways he'd probably average 150.

All those bodyline balls would be edged for six with today's bat sizes

 

[Doss]

So I'm bumping this because, well, something that's been occurring to me a bit recently as the years begin to tick by a little bit...

How do you pass on the genius of a past player to a young up and coming fan so that they appreciate the greats of the past? Can you really, or is it really a case of 'you had to see them'?

I know my father certainly tried his best to impress upon me the genius of players like Barry Richards, or indeed Viv Richards, or Greg Chappell, or Sunil Gavaskar - all players I'm too young to have seen while they were still playing (I missed Viv by only a year, the others by a lot). He did it when I was a young kid, well pre-YouTube and easy and on demand access to other media, mainly through telling his own stories and trying to infuse that into me. He made cricket literature available to me, rented VHS and later DVDs featuring said geniuses among others, and young me soaked it up.

And doing it that way, he did a damned good job. I still feel that perhaps, though, that little mark of magic, or the glint in the eye, isn't there for me with those players.

Can it be though, having not seen them? I ask because, I look back at a freak like Lara - still my all time favourite and someone I was privileged to see in abundance - and I now wonder, how would I infuse into my future children that this guy was something a bit out of this world?

Can you actually do it, or is it really a case of, 'you had to see him'? Because the great man who is the subject of this thread has been retired now for close to 12 years and, when I get into cricket mode, I still don't miss watching him any less; it's almost got worse over the years actually.

 

[Matera92]

So I'm bumping this because, well, something that's been occurring to me a bit recently as the years begin to tick by a little bit...

How do you pass on the genius of a past player to a young up and coming fan so that they appreciate the greats of the past? Can you really, or is it really a case of 'you had to see them'?

I know my father certainly tried his best to impress upon me the genius of players like Barry Richards, or indeed Viv Richards, or Greg Chappell, or Sunil Gavaskar - all players I'm too young to have seen while they were still playing (I missed Viv by only a year, the others by a lot). He did it when I was a young kid, well pre-YouTube and easy and on demand access to other media, mainly through telling his own stories and trying to infuse that into me. He made cricket literature available to me, rented VHS and later DVDs featuring said geniuses among others, and young me soaked it up.

And doing it that way, he did a damned good job. I still feel that perhaps, though, that little mark of magic, or the glint in the eye, isn't there for me with those players.

Can it be though, having not seen them? I ask because, I look back at a freak like Lara - still my all time favourite and someone I was privileged to see in abundance - and I now wonder, how would I infuse into my future children that this guy was something a bit out of this world?

Can you actually do it, or is it really a case of, 'you had to see him'? Because the great man who is the subject of this thread has been retired now for close to 12 years and, when I get into cricket mode, I still don't miss watching him any less; it's almost got worse over the years actually.

Amazingly put.

It's the same for all sports really. Try explaining to a LBJ die hard fan how god like Jordan was in his prime and they'll just wave you off. There's something to be said about living in an era where a true great is in his prime and dominating their chosen sport. It's not just about their on field exploits, but the hype and buzz surrounding them in the media, amongst opposition, and the fans.

 

[the_interloper]

That 277 he made was epic to watch, never seen cover driving like that through the gaps before or since. Probably as good as Tendulkar but more exciting to watch.

 

[sandeano]

So I'm bumping this because, well, something that's been occurring to me a bit recently as the years begin to tick by a little bit...

How do you pass on the genius of a past player to a young up and coming fan so that they appreciate the greats of the past? Can you really, or is it really a case of 'you had to see them'?

I know my father certainly tried his best to impress upon me the genius of players like Barry Richards, or indeed Viv Richards, or Greg Chappell, or Sunil Gavaskar - all players I'm too young to have seen while they were still playing (I missed Viv by only a year, the others by a lot). He did it when I was a young kid, well pre-YouTube and easy and on demand access to other media, mainly through telling his own stories and trying to infuse that into me. He made cricket literature available to me, rented VHS and later DVDs featuring said geniuses among others, and young me soaked it up.

And doing it that way, he did a damned good job. I still feel that perhaps, though, that little mark of magic, or the glint in the eye, isn't there for me with those players.

Can it be though, having not seen them? I ask because, I look back at a freak like Lara - still my all time favourite and someone I was privileged to see in abundance - and I now wonder, how would I infuse into my future children that this guy was something a bit out of this world?

Can you actually do it, or is it really a case of, 'you had to see him'? Because the great man who is the subject of this thread has been retired now for close to 12 years and, when I get into cricket mode, I still don't miss watching him any less; it's almost got worse over the years actually.

A very good point. Thankfully these days every international match is well covered with quality broadcasting and whiz-bang gimmicks. It wasn't that long ago that things were different. As a kid I followed the game intently and Alan Border was my favourite player. But back in 1980 I had to reply on newspaper reports of his remarkable pair of 150s in the test in Karachi against a pretty decent Pakistan attack. Yes AB maintains a place in the record books but as there appears to be no footage that survives (or is at least available) of that game the feat has been forgotten. It's the ol' "If a tree falls in the forest..." thing - If a player has a brilliant match but no-one filmed it, did that innings really occur at all?

 

[Ishikawa]

A very good point. Thankfully these days every international match is well covered with quality broadcasting and whiz-bang gimmicks. It wasn't that long ago that things were different. As a kid I followed the game intently and Alan Border was my favourite player. But back in 1980 I had to reply on newspaper reports of his remarkable pair of 150s in the test in Karachi against a pretty decent Pakistan attack. Yes AB maintains a place in the record books but as there appears to be no footage that survives (or is at least available) of that game the feat has been forgotten. It's the ol' "If a tree falls in the forest..." thing - If a player has a brilliant match but no-one filmed it, did that innings really occur at all?

Don't disagree, but lets not ignore that this does work both ways too.

 

[PhatBoy]

I never tire of this thread, it reminds me that there are others who loved The Prince as much as I did.

There isn’t much you can do to explain the way he played, as it was so distinctive. You could point to someone like Kohli who is very economical in movement and timing-based and say ‘that’s basically what Tendulkar did’ or compare someone who is all about footwork and high elbows like Williamson and compare them to Ponting, but it is hard with Lara.

Although you could always show them this: the drive he plays at 2:07 is f***ing divine

https://www.cricket.com.au/video/da...t-first-test-west-indies-australia/2015-12-11



With players from before my time it is really tough. Like a few on here no doubt I was lucky enough to remember the Allan Border tribute game (Fatty’s F***ing Catch) and the Bradman World XI game where Zoe Goss dismisses Lara.

In the first of those Barry Richards made maybe 15, but just looked glorious, especially considering he was about 50. You could see the class of the bloke.
Pollock hit 80-odd at better than a run a ball in the Bradman game at 51 years of age. His technique looked absolutely bulletproof from memory.

 

[Gough]

My old man swears blind that Pollock is still the best he's ever seen. That South African side would have ruled the 70s, just another reason to despise Apartheid.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

My old man swears blind that Pollock is still the best he's ever seen. That South African side would have ruled the 70s, just another reason to despise Apartheid.

The only thing they lacked was a quality spinner.

 

[Gough]

The only thing they lacked was a quality spinner.

Denys Hobson would have done okay.

 

[STFU Donnie]

My old man swears blind that Pollock is still the best he's ever seen. That South African side would have ruled the 70s, just another reason to despise Apartheid.

Roberts and Holding (circa 76-79) vs. a bunch of Saffie bastards. Now that's a Bodyline series I'd really have liked. Of course it's just fantasy.

 

[PhatBoy]

My old man swears blind that Pollock is still the best he's ever seen. That South African side would have ruled the 70s, just another reason to despise Apartheid.

This.

Two high octane teams going hammer and tong. Would have been great to watch - Rice, Proctor, Pollock, Pollock, Barlow, Richards, Le roux, van der Bijl, Trimborn etc. absolute f***ing tragedy that it never happened.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sometimes when watching Lara bat, I'd think to myself, "I could watch this guy bat ALL day". Every now and then, I got my wish.