Opinion Buddha v Sel

[Sttew]

id pick buddha by a whisker


surely that deserves a like

You get a like from me for just one day, coz isn't that how long Buddha's name was changed to Whiskas?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yeah had a look too, Hickey played close enough to 16 games a season. 9 years is 144 games as captain as a rough idea.

I'd hazard a guess that Selwood would be around the 80-90 mark.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Yep, I rate Selwood a much better user of the ball and he's under a bit more pressure than Johnson too.
Looking at their stats over the past five seasons, Selwood has been running at 73% disposal efficiency & 2.9 clangers per game while Johnson has been running at 65.5% disposal efficiency & 3.1 clangers per game.

That's a bit of a differential. Johnson's an average user when he gets the ball. You will see what I'm talking about now he's up at the Giants. Hell! He'll probably rank among the poorest users in the league by the end of the year (primarily because he's in rapid decline).

I agree, Joel Selwood is a better ball user than Johnson, he's one of the more underrated ball users in the league. Before 2015 he would consistently sit 1 or 2 for possession retention from his clearances, while also having the best DE% of those in the top 20 in CP.

Johnson probably was an average ball user, but made up for it by being an exceptional decision maker. He always sat in the top 10 for score involvements, because he rarely if ever took a safe option. I think his DE% only suffers due to the high risk nature of his disposals.

 

[Seeds]

Yep, I rate Selwood a much better user of the ball and he's under a bit more pressure than Johnson too.
Looking at their stats over the past five seasons, Selwood has been running at 73% disposal efficiency & 2.9 clangers per game while Johnson has been running at 65.5% disposal efficiency & 3.1 clangers per game.

That's a bit of a differential. Johnson's an average user when he gets the ball. You will see what I'm talking about now he's up at the Giants. Hell! He'll probably rank among the poorest users in the league by the end of the year (primarily because he's in rapid decline).

You said he was more destructive with disposal. Those stats just refer to consistency in not turning it over and take no account of the types of disposal attempted. Johnson is one of the top players in the comp in regards to destructive disposal and both setting up goals out of no where and kicking goals. Partly because he attempts plays that others won't risk trying. It's johnsons best feature of his game and selwood like most players aren't close in that regard.

 

[JB1975]

Hocking was a tough-as-nails midfielder, and his toughness sometimes obscured his skill. I loved watching him play, and I loved watching the Cats play at the time.

Maybe Selwood doesn't have the same skills, but I think that the conditions under which players have to execute these days (pressure, fatigue etc.) complicates that judgment. For mine, Selwood is every bit as tough as Hocking, but what elevates Selwood is his ability to drag his team along with him, and to drag them over the line. There are contests which he has seemed completely out of, contests he has no right to make, and time and time again he wins them. This is a defining characteristic of Selwood, and for me it sets him slightly above Hocking.

 

[ChookNorris]

Does this have a poll yet?

 

[Seeds]

Selwood has the potential to be better than hocking. But he ain't quite there yet. They are about par at the moment.

 

[David the Cat]

But when you're talking about captaincy you can. If Selwood is so inspirational, how come we've failed to turn up at the start of three finals?

A captain may inspire you with his words....he may inspire you with his actions....

But in the end, its up to you...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Hocking was a tough-as-nails midfielder, and his toughness sometimes obscured his skill. I loved watching him play, and I loved watching the Cats play at the time.

Maybe Selwood doesn't have the same skills, but I think that the conditions under which players have to execute these days (pressure, fatigue etc.) complicates that judgment. For mine, Selwood is every bit as tough as Hocking, but what elevates Selwood is his ability to drag his team along with him, and to drag them over the line. There are contests which he has seemed completely out of, contests he has no right to make, and time and time again he wins them. This is a defining characteristic of Selwood, and for me it sets him slightly above Hocking.

If only his ability to drag his mates over the line worked in important finals.

 

[Vdubs]

Saw and admired all of Buddha's career.
The only blemish for me was his tendency to be afflicted with fevers at Grand Finals times.
WLF.
His skills for such a tough in and under player were sublime.
As a pure footballer, he has it over Joel.
Early days, the captaincy did not sit well with him.
Later on , it did.

Selwood, I hope will be rejuvenated by having Dangerfield around, but 2015, from my pov, was a very disappointing year compared to what we've become accustomed to. So, it's early in Selwood's career relatively, but I fear and suspect we have already seen his best.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Joel was made captain maybe a couple of years to early

Probably true, but I think part of that deal was to keep him at the cats as other teams were sniffing around (?) Plus none of the remaining vets were exactly captaincy material .
Chapman would have been an interesting choice in the role, notwithstanding his lack of discipline on occasions. Was also a little flaky physically at that point. Bartel always a little desultory I think, to be a captain. Boris would have been a possibility but probably not interested

 

[you pick one]

Probably true, but I think part of that deal was to keep him at the cats as other teams were sniffing around (?) Plus none of the remaining vets were exactly captaincy material .
Chapman would have been an interesting choice in the role, notwithstanding his lack of discipline on occasions. Was also a little flaky physically at that point. Bartel always a little desultory I think, to be a captain. Boris would have been a possibility but probably not interested

Nice word but not one I'd have expected to be used to describe Jimmy

 

[jimmy.h]

If only his ability to drag his mates over the line worked in important finals.

Which finals would we have won with a better captain?

 

[Seeds]

No, here is exactly what I said Seeds:



He's not as good by hand or foot as what Selwood is.
That is why Selwood averages more disposals per game than Johnson but also has a better disposal efficiency rating.

However, this does not mean Johnson as a player is not a more damaging footballer given he has x-factor qualities such as his marking, goal kicking awareness and creativity.



Yes, the Johnson of 2006-2011 was arguably top three in terms of dominance in nearly every key statistic but that was a while ago now.
Since then, with his move to the midfield in 2012, Johnson is hardly as dominant as what you may think.
He doesn't setup as many goals as Selwood but he does kick more goals. Still, If you were to check the numbers of both players during that time when Johnson moved to the midfield in season 2012, he's kicked 89 goals (79 behinds) opposed to Selwood 81 goals (52 behinds). Not that much difference actually.

And Johnson is also a pretty average set shot for goal too. Though it's not related to the creativity we are discussing, it's just a blemish on his game where Selwood is often a dead eye dick in that area.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Selwood spend a lot of time near goals in his later years. He's got a natural knack as a small forward.

Damaging or destructive is pretty much the same thing. If you said selwood is more consistent in ensuring his disposal ain't turned over I would agree. But destructive or damaging then yeah its sj. Ofcourse I'm talking about averages over careers. Selwood today is still at his peak and sj is at the end and doesn't quite have the same power in his legs although his vision of the play is still there (although surprisingly his awareness of players around him has become horrendous). Selwood is quite good around goal too though and I agree doesn't get the credit that he should in that area.

 

[Seeds]

Do we actually need a captain? I'm not really sure they do anything when professionals are involved as there is no need for inspiration. Do we have captains at work? nope. Only managers who are the coaches in football. Maybe we should have no captain.

 

[you pick one]

Do we actually need a captain? I'm not really sure they do anything when professionals are involved as there is no need for inspiration. Do we have captains at work? nope. Only managers who are the coaches in football. Maybe we should have no captain.

Yep, a team without a captain would be like a ship without a rudder.And it's a huge task to take on that's why some blokes can't handle it and relinquish it to concentrate solely on their own game.Don't under estimate the worth and special qualities of a good skipper.

 

[FredLeDeux]

What makes a great footy captain?

http://www.coachafl.com/index.php?pr=Feature_-_Jonathan_Brown

 

[Seeds]

Yep, a team without a captain would be like a ship without a rudder.And it's a huge task to take on that's why some blokes can't handle it and relinquish it to concentrate solely on their own game.Don't under estimate the worth and special qualities of a good skipper.

Based on what though? You can use metaphors all you want but what evidence is there that a captain is needed? Professionals who play sport don't need captain speeches or to see a captain playing well to perform better? So what is the point?

 

[Scottland2007]

Which finals would we have won with a better captain?

Not sure which final, but, it's common knowledge that if Harley was still captain in 2013, Hawkins wouldn't have back problems and Dawson wouldn't have done his knee.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Nice word but not one I'd have expected to be used to describe Jimmy

More about his off field persona I guess.. Maybe a bit harsh. More of a soldier than a leader

 

[you pick one]

Based on what though? You can use metaphors all you want but what evidence is there that a captain is needed? Professionals who play sport don't need captain speeches or to see a captain playing well to perform better? So what is the point?

Freds post above is a good place to start.A personal experience almost 50 years ago now in a tight game I was moving back to the middle for a centre bounce the skipper rolled up beside me and said "your going ok but we'll need more than ok in the last 10 minutes to win this".On field leadership.

 

[Seeds]

Freds post above is a good place to start.A personal experience almost 50 years ago now in a tight game I was moving back to the middle for a centre bounce the skipper rolled up beside me and said "your going ok but we'll need more than ok in the last 10 minutes to win this".On field leadership.

Cant a runner tell you that and when you are a professional why did you need to be told that at all?

 

[you pick one]

Cant a runner tell you that and when you are a professional why did you need to be told that at all?

He could tell you if we had one but I'm not sure he'd have got the same response, but I'm certain I wouldn't remember it today. Professional sport or just every day life we can all fall into bad habits or just be a bit lazy, every one need a little push or reminder from time to time.A stint in the seconds can change your attitude as well.

 

[Partridge]

He could tell you if we had one but I'm not sure he'd have got the same response, but I'm certain I wouldn't remember it today. Professional sport or just every day life we can all fall into bad habits or just be a bit lazy, every one need a little push or reminder from time to time.A stint in the seconds can change your attitude as well.

It absolutely can. Which is why no player should ever be immune to it.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

he aSelwood has the potential to be better than hocking. But in't quite there yet. They are about par at the moment.

BullShiit - if it was a tennis match - the scoreline would be something along the lines of 6-4 7-5 6-3 ( ie 3 glorious flags to nil )

Thank you linesmen - thank you ball boys - Game Set and Match to Joel !