Opinion Butcher

[Smartys Power]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/bu...oach-ken-hinkley/story-fndv8s6g-1227514369006

Sounds very positive. Can't wait for the day Butcher silences all the critics and takes the competition by storm.

 

[CrystalFissure]

100% spot on, these posters crying because he kicked a goal against Peal Thunder will be crying twice as much next year when still can't kick in games that will mean much to us than today's circus. .

He's a good mark any day of the week. Doesn't matter if it was "Peel".

 

[Forzaport]

I'm wondering when the 2-step set shot became a thing because it's made his kicking for goal worse, quite an achievement if you think about it.

When Butch has a set shot, I want to see him go back 15-20 metres and have a long run up as if it's a field kick. Pick a target in the crowd and kick to that. He'll instantly be able to kick longer than 35 metres and his goal accuracy will improve immensely.

If we keep Butcher, he'll be one of our most watched players this pre season, along with Dixon and possibly Mayes.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I'm wondering when the 2-step set shot became a thing because it's made his kicking for goal worse, quite an achievement if you think about it.

When Butch has a set shot, I want to see him go back 15-20 metres and have a long run up as if it's a field kick. Pick a target in the crowd and kick to that. He'll instantly be able to kick longer than 35 metres and his goal accuracy will improve immensely.

If we keep Butcher, he'll be one of our most watched players this pre season, along with Dixon and possibly Mayes.

His kicking originally was weird, terrible looking action. However it was probably only clokesque in how many shots he missed. Strange that we tried to change it so fundamentally. Now he has no rhythm or learned technique at all. It's all over the shop.

 

[Lagooner]

When Butch has a set shot, I want to see him go back 15-20 metres and have a long run up as if it's a field kick. Pick a target in the crowd and kick to that. He'll instantly be able to kick longer than 35 metres and his goal accuracy will improve immensely.

Jay Schulz likes this.

 

[PJ Power]

I'm wondering when the 2-step set shot became a thing because it's made his kicking for goal worse, quite an achievement if you think about it.

When Butch has a set shot, I want to see him go back 15-20 metres and have a long run up as if it's a field kick. Pick a target in the crowd and kick to that. He'll instantly be able to kick longer than 35 metres and his goal accuracy will improve immensely.

If we keep Butcher, he'll be one of our most watched players this pre season, along with Dixon and possibly Mayes.

Mayes? Have I missed something?

 

[Forzaport]

Mayes? Have I missed something?

Nah, just wishful thinking for the moment.

 

[Doctor Feel]

He's a good mark any day of the week. Doesn't matter if it was "Peel".

After what he did today. #pray4peel

 

[FallingLiefs]

I have completely given up on dissecting of the technical aspects of butchers kicking. He has the yips. Either he gets his head space right and he can deal with it, or he can't. He's not an AFL prospect if he kicks like he did today, but it may be fixable. Given his outstanding talents in other aspects of his game he clearly deserves a bit more time to get it right. I have no doubt he was played as soon as we couldn't make it to see if he could have a mental breakthrough. It's only going to be fixable with time and he's miles ahead of any other prospects we have right now or are likely to get through the draft. It will take games under his belt.

 

[Doctor Feel]

One year left for butch to get it right. He must try all methods available to him. Even if they are whacko alternatives. The bizareness is his field kicking being so effective and his set shot so rubbish. He should kick the ball off one step if he is 25m out, lol.

 

[PJ Power]

It's mental for Butcher.
I don't know how that can ever be rectified.

What I think has happened over the past 3 years is that he started to will the ball away from himself. He became so anxious about the set shots that he stopped working as hard as he used to to win the ball.

The Butcher on display in the past month has at least imposed himself on the contest and willed the ball into his hands. The marking spree since three quarter time against GC and again today came about because he wanted the ball in his hands, and his contested marking thrived again.

I would just beg Butch to not think about his goal kicking when he plays. Just implore him to demand the ball, get it in his hands. Accept that he is going to be 1.4 or 2.5, and work within that. See what flows.

We still kicked big scores this past month despite him only registering two goals. He certainly helped our structure.

I still maintain having said all of that, that we will miss Jay Schulz's reliability in front of goal enormously.

 

[HighBudget]

What was with the crowd standing up while Butcher was lining up for a goal? It's not like he doesn't have enough confident and nerve problems as it is you all have to double it for him

 

[Doctor Feel]

What was with the crowd standing up while Butcher was lining up for a goal? It's not like he doesn't have enough confident and nerve problems as it is you all have to double it for him

It's called anticipation and excitement.

 

[HighBudget]

It's called anticipation and excitement.

Well, as long as they do it they can expect disappointment. Wingard is the most exciting player in Port and no one stands up while he's lining up for a shot

 

[SilenceOz]

Well, as long as they do it they can expect disappointment. Wingard is the most exciting player in Port and no one stands up while he's lining up for a shot

When Wingard is lining up for a shot, I just take a chug of beer and check my phone because you know its going through the middle.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Well, as long as they do it they can expect disappointment. Wingard is the most exciting player in Port and no one stands up while he's lining up for a shot

Okay.

 

[mando235]

This forum is not an accurate representation of the whole supporter base. Just because 50 blokes that post on the big footy forums think something does not mean that it is an accurate representation of the crowd.

So what you're telling us is that you've coincidently run into the minority of people who were genuinely cheering for butch today on this forum?

I hope you don't work in the marketing world

Cadbury board: So Robbie4PM what feedback did you get from the public about the new flavour of chocolate?

Robbie4PM: Well 99 people said they didn't like it but 1 person did. I don't think those 100 people were a fair representation of the public though. I suggest mass production asap

 

[gutsroy]

Forgive the intrusion, but I've tried to observe Butcher a little bit this year and the thing that is odd is that he seems to be an OK field kick, but when he lines up for set shots, his kicking becomes so erratic.

He's fit, a good size, a good contested mark - if he doesn't take it himself, he brings it to ground and gives the crumbers a good chance at it -, it's just the set shots that hold him back, must be pretty deflating for him (Cloke has his struggles, too...)

Really hope he can find some way of sorting his goalkicking out, even if he only gets it to 'adequate', it would be a big plus. Fingers crossed

 

[crafty_bernardo]

His kicks at goal seemed far less erratic when he finally got those feet moving rather than 2-step kick. Hopefully he settles with the that process and works on that for the pre-season.

It was heart breaking watching him and his spraying kicks early on.

 

[REVERSED]

His kicks at goal seemed far less erratic when he finally got those feet moving rather than 2-step kick. Hopefully he settles with the that process and works on that for the pre-season.

It was heart breaking watching him and his spraying kicks early on.

I know right What's annoying is when he's at training he's just kicking 60m bombs and never misses. It just sucks that he probably wont reach that potential on-field. He's always smiling aswel, this game just made it harder for Ken too and I know it has pulled on quite a few of our members heart strings.

 

[Robbie4PM]

So what you're telling us is that you've coincidently run into the minority of people who were genuinely cheering for butch today on this forum?

I hope you don't work in the marketing world

Cadbury board: So Robbie4PM what feedback did you get from the public about the new flavour of chocolate?

Robbie4PM: Well 99 people said they didn't like it but 1 person did. I don't think those 100 people were a fair representation of the public though. I suggest mass production asap

Maybe it is just the younger generation doing it then. Since i made this post I have seen many of port supporters on my facebook post photos of butcher taking the piss. I guess I come from a different world to the average poster on here

And yes 30 people is not a big enough sample size for a population of what 300'000 port supporters?

Additionally the people that post on the forum are more your fanatical type supporters and not really a true representation of your average port supporter. So lets say you had a new chocolate type with popping candy jelly beans, and some sour shit in it. You give that to 100 children, 99 like it. So you are saying that 99% of the whole world are going to love it.

On Butch if we take my sample of people I know who'm I have discussed butcher with only 1 out of about 20 have said he is worth keeping. And that 1 is actually a poster on here, who is a butcher fan. So what I have said is maybe some of these supporters may be taking the piss, and maybe its a larger percentage than you think. I don't think I am out of line at all.

Edit: I don't work in the marketing world but I hope you don't either considering you have no concept of bias data or basically statistics at all

 

[El_Scorcho]

Maybe it is just the younger generation doing it then. Since i made this post I have seen many of port supporters on my facebook post photos of butcher taking the piss. I guess I come from a different world to the average poster on here

And yes 30 people is not a big enough sample size for a population of what 300'000 port supporters?

Were you at the game today dude? I don't believe you could have been there for that mark and goal and still believe the supporter base isn't behind him. That goal going through was one of the biggest roars of the year, and people absolutely loved it.


Anyway.

Obviously the thrust of this thread can now be turned from his list position to how to fix his kicking.

He should probably be taking something like 300 set shots a day for the entire preseason. He just needs a routine. It's very obvious that every run up and kick is different at the moment. Even if they are still being sprayed, every single kick should be the same. Maybe he needs something like the Lloyd grass throw or the Chad hamstring rub, just to remind him to go straight into robotic routine mode.

Put the responsibility onto a specific coach. Whether that's a Ben Perkins type from outside the club or one of our current coaches, or just a fellow player. Get someone to take charge of his set shot kicking and take responsibility for improving it. Give that coach some financial incentive, if that's what it takes. Offer that coach on top of whatever he's being paid something like Butcher's set shot success percentage multiplied by $1000.

Anyone watching today's game can see how enormously valuable he'd be if he was kicking set shots at an AFL standard.

Some people have suggested hypnotherapy. I'd be open to that or just about anything at this point.

Another idea is to get him to take set shots with his left. They might be just as bad at the start, but the horrible muscle memory wont be there, and you can work on his technique basically from scratch. It's a lot easier to do that than try to correct an ingrained bad technique. Just an idea.

The mental side of it is the biggest issue, but I think that will be improved with the muscle memory that comes with building and sticking doggedly to a routine for the preseason. I'd be hoping he takes something like 50,000 shots between now and round 1, which is an average of about 250 a day until then.

 

[mando235]

Maybe it is just the younger generation doing it then. Since i made this post I have seen many of port supporters on my facebook post photos of butcher taking the piss. I guess I come from a different world to the average poster on here

And yes 30 people is not a big enough sample size for a population of what 300'000 port supporters?

Additionally the people that post on the forum are more your fanatical type supporters and not really a true representation of your average port supporter. So lets say you had a new chocolate type with popping candy jelly beans, and some sour shit in it. You give that to 100 children, 99 like it. So you are saying that 99% of the whole world are going to love it.

On Butch if we take my sample of people I know who'm I have discussed butcher with only 1 out of about 20 have said he is worth keeping. And that 1 is actually a poster on here, who is a butcher fan. So what I have said is maybe some of these supporters may be taking the piss, and maybe its a larger percentage than you think. I don't think I am out of line at all.

Edit: I don't work in the marketing world but I hope you don't either considering you have no concept of bias data or basically statistics at all

No I'm not suggesting 99% of the population would like it at all. I can sure as hell guarantee you that majority of people still will though. Are you suggesting only 1% would hate it? That's how companies product test. Trial on groups of people. Apologies for not going into deeper statistics about marketing.

As for your Butch. Your original statement said nothing about people you've talked to or FB. Just a comment about you thinking posters on BF aren't a representation of port supporters. Had you mentioned FB or conversations you've had with people rather than just sounding like you're a master of reading people, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I certainly didn't have anyone around me taking this piss. If I did I would of had words. One of our players is out there trying his best to contribute to a win. Don't need muppets bronx cheering him and taking the piss!

 

[Robbie4PM]

Were you at the game today dude? I don't believe you could have been there for that mark and goal and still believe the supporter base isn't behind him. That goal going through was one of the biggest roars of the year, and people absolutely loved it.


Anyway.

Obviously the thrust of this thread can now be turned from his list position to how to fix his kicking.

He should probably be taking something like 300 set shots a day for the entire preseason. He just needs a routine. It's very obvious that every run up and kick is different at the moment. Even if they are still being sprayed, every single kick should be the same. Maybe he needs something like the Lloyd grass throw or the Chad hamstring rub, just to remind him to go straight into robotic routine mode.

Put the responsibility onto a specific coach. Whether that's a Ben Perkins type from outside the club or one of our current coaches, or just a fellow player. Get someone to take charge of his set shot kicking and take responsibility for improving it. Give that coach some financial incentive, if that's what it takes. Offer that coach on top of whatever he's being paid something like Butcher's set shot success percentage multiplied by $1000.

Anyone watching today's game can see how enormously valuable he'd be if he was kicking set shots at an AFL standard.

Some people have suggested hypnotherapy. I'd be open to that or just about anything at this point.

Another idea is to get him to take set shots with his left. They might be just as bad at the start, but the horrible muscle memory wont be there, and you can work on his technique basically from scratch. It's a lot easier to do that than try to correct an ingrained bad technique. Just an idea.

The mental side of it is the biggest issue, but I think that will be improved with the muscle memory that comes with building and sticking doggedly to a routine for the preseason. I'd be hoping he takes something like 50,000 shots between now and round 1, which is an average of about 250 a day until then.

Yeah I was, around me it was people all taking the piss, bowing down etc like I said before. Everytime he marks you here the whole stadium start talking discussing what is going to happen. I think there is a genuine relief when he kicks one and excitment for the bloke but I also hear sarcastic cheers etc everytime he sprays one. There are definitely people that are genuinely excited but I do think there are also people who are cheering ironically basically is all im saying.

Thats what I said in my first post in this, he showed he is capable of being an AFL footballer and that he can be a valuable player but yeah we all know the issue. What i personally would do is change his grip, change the run up, change everything. Someone like a Primus dropped the ball real funny but it was reasonably effective, Tippet the same. I haven't actually looked at a slow motion shot of butchers kicking but obviously the way he drops the ball is not working. I'm not sure about the left foot but anything is worth a try at the moment.

I think if he fixes the technique to something more consistant, and stops having those massive misses where he doesn't even get close. The confidense will come

 

[El_Scorcho]

Yeah I was, around me it was people all taking the piss, bowing down etc like I said before. Everytime he marks you here the whole stadium start talking discussing what is going to happen. I think there is a genuine relief when he kicks one and excitment for the bloke but I also hear sarcastic cheers etc everytime he sprays one. There are definitely people that are genuinely excited but I do think there are also people who are cheering ironically basically is all im saying.

Thats what I said in my first post in this, he showed he is capable of being an AFL footballer and that he can be a valuable player but yeah we all know the issue. What i personally would do is change his grip, change the run up, change everything. Someone like a Primus dropped the ball real funny but it was reasonably effective, Tippet the same. I haven't actually looked at a slow motion shot of butchers kicking but obviously the way he drops the ball is not working. I'm not sure about the left foot but anything is worth a try at the moment.

I think if he fixes the technique to something more consistant, and stops having those massive misses where he doesn't even get close. The confidense will come

Agree on the technique. I think the issue at the moment is there is no routine to analyse. Every run up seems to be different. Routine and rhythm are so important to set shot kicking, and he has absolutely none of it. I'm not sure if he's worked on one that goes out the window under pressure, but it just doesn't seem like he has one.