Opinion Butcher

[Ford Fairlane]

Shaun Hart was at the game too.

 

[Peck]

Even if Butch doesn't play another game between now and the end of 2015 he'll get another year.

And even then another club would give him a chance if we did delist.

KPFs are too important

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Lol, that is exaggeration my friend.

If he doesn't play another game before the end of 2015 he will have to have almost gone backwards from where he is now, and there is no way we would keep him on then. Perhaps another club would give him a chance, but I doubt it.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Butcher was an absolute steal at 9 at the time, and would still be considered a steal if he hadn't been crueled by injuries for so much of his career thus far.

We were so excited about drafting him that Moore and Pittard were an afterthought at that stage. He'd been widely tipped to go top 2 for a long, long time until Melbourne panicked because none of their picks were working out and decided to go safe by getting a rolled gold can't-miss player in Jack Trengove instead.

Questioning the drafting of him now is frankly some of the most ridiculous 20/20 hindsight crap i've ever heard on these boards. Moore is the draft pick we questioned at the time and should continue to question now. We needed to go tall again. We're frankly really lucky how it's worked out with our KPDs because Talia has turned into a terrific defender.

 

[tribey]

Lol, that is exaggeration my friend.

If he doesn't play another game before the end of 2015 he will have to have almost gone backwards from where he is now, and there is no way we would keep him on then. Perhaps another club would give him a chance, but I doubt it.

I doubt he means not playing another game for form, it'd be injury given his history of hip and back problems.

We'd offer him a rookie list slot a la Renouf at worst. Even at this worst-case scenario he'd still be worth more than our 5th round pick in a given year.

 

[Powerstufff]

Shaun Hart was at the game too.

Yeah, didn't see him but my point was that Butch and all our other AFL-listed players are in real-time AFL development now when playing with the Maggies.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Lol, that is exaggeration my friend.

If he doesn't play another game before the end of 2015 he will have to have almost gone backwards from where he is now, and there is no way we would keep him on then. Perhaps another club would give him a chance, but I doubt it.

Gumbleton is the most apt comparison and was given 7 full seasons. Given he's currently our 2nd best full time KPF, he'll almost certainly play again, but even if he didn't, assuming we don't pay big to trade someone in, going into 2016 we'll be looking at a KPF department of:

Schulz 31yo
Butcher 24
Shaw 22
Harvey 20

Plus some draftees.

Harvey has looked reasonable but he's a long way away, and Shaw has shown a lot less than Butcher at the same age. Butcher will get a contract because we will have absolutely no KPF depth behind an aging Schulz if we don't.

I doubt he means not playing another game for form, it'd be injury given his history of hip and back problems.

We'd offer him a rookie list slot a la Renouf at worst. Even at this worst-case scenario he'd still be worth more than our 5th round pick in a given year.

I did mean on injuries, but even on form. Who are our KPFs in 2016 if Butcher is delisted? We'll have the same depth we have now but Schulz will be 2 years older and have had 2 more years worth of impact injuries wearing him down.

 

[Power Raid]

Butch will be gone at seasons end, hope im wrong but i just cant see him geting another contract at the rate hes going!

really?

nah, he is safe

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

In the risk of being called robbie walls..

Butch as a mobile ruckmen?

 

[Janus]

There will be one game...and that game will happen sometime this year or next...where it will just click for John, the same way it clicked for Lobbe last year.

I have faith.

 

[1954]

Maybe Buddha should just say 'Go out and treat it like a game Butch'

Geez Butch looked like a different player in that clip, he attacked the ball like his life depended on it, and even his ball drop at about 1.56 looked nigh on perfect.

What t f happened? He looked blue chip back then, and should be tearing the SANFL apart by now, but all we have had in 4 and a bit seasons is one good game, and a couple of cameos at AFL level and not much to get excited about at the next level down.

 

[Power Raid]

In the risk of being called robbie walls..

Butch as a mobile ruckmen?

I like the idea

 

[Janus]

Geez Butch looked like a different player in that clip, he attacked the ball like his life depended on it, and even his ball drop at about 1.56 looked nigh on perfect.

What t f happened? He looked blue chip back then, and should be tearing the SANFL apart by now, but all we have had in 4 and a bit seasons is one good game, and a couple of cameos at AFL level and not much to get excited about at the next level down.

Injuries happened. No pre-season happened. The main thing that Butcher needs right now is confidence that his body is going to stand up to football and that he can attack the ball.

John is stuck at 2011/2012 level while the rest of the list has progressed because of it. It's why he'll be given time.

 

[Peck]

I doubt he means not playing another game for form, it'd be injury given his history of hip and back problems.

We'd offer him a rookie list slot a la Renouf at worst. Even at this worst-case scenario he'd still be worth more than our 5th round pick in a given year.

That does sound reasonable.

I did mean on injuries, but even on form. Who are our KPFs in 2016 if Butcher is delisted? We'll have the same depth we have now but Schulz will be 2 years older and have had 2 more years worth of impact injuries wearing him down.

If we don't have other options by then, then obviously we'd have to give him a contract or start playing Trengove up forward. Surely we are looking at options from other clubs though.

 

[Power Raid]

Maybe Buddha should just say 'Go out and treat it like a game Butch'

there is no doubt, he is definitely talented enough

he just needs a few good games to realise he belongs at this level

 

[HaroldOliver]

Unfortunately our lack of recruiting KPFs over the last decade really hinders our ability to be pressing for regular top four berths over the next few years. Butcher's confidence seems to be shot, admittedly. This is not the only problem though. I just think if he had a contemporary key forward fighting for the same spot in the 22 then this would force him to be more desperate to make the third tall position his. At the same time competition would effectively take some of the pressure off of him: he wouldn't have to be the one and only Future.
Obviously I haven't offered an instant solution to this problem. My suggested solution would be using Redden as a forward/ruck backup but Jarred's injury has ruled that out.
Endorsing what I'm assuming many offers feel, the recruitment and drafting of tall forwards must be a priority at this season's end.

 

[Turiyasangitananda]

I like the idea of defence only for him to get his positioning right, and to be forced to make a contest. Not a bad idea in the interim, but not a long term option as he doesn't have the footskills to get out of tight situations and link play up. His defensive pressure is one of his better attributes. His biggest issue is his confidence, which has coincided with not getting his body right (still hasn't had an injury free preseason IIRC). Doesn't look like he's enjoying his footy. Like it or not, he's with us until the end of next year, calls to delist him at season end are incredibly premature. If he doesn't have faith in himself, then he needs to be shown it. Reality is he is still probably a long term project. He doesn't need to kick bags either, just needs to provide a contest and create goals, a la Darryl Poole. He's he for at least 18 more months, forget break out games, just allow him to trust his body again.

 

[Dylan8]

I don't think moving him to CHB temporarily is the right thing if you're planning on continuing to develop him as a KPF.

Don't know if it really did anything for Jay @ Richmond.

 

[philthy05]

ermegerd 22 year old key forward isnt dominating the league yet playing as 3rd/4th fiddle in ports forward line structure where its more important he drags a defender away from shultz/wingard/monfries/westhoff who kick plenty of goals????

the horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!


is it too much to ask that a 22 year old key forward with 1 pre-season under his belt kick bags of goals every week?

i mean , club champion warren tredrea was kicking bags at the age of 22..... right??..........



you know what. he will never make it. i think we should trade in lycett/gumbleton/lachlan hanson/vickery/other random unestablished key forward for a 3rd round pick as no one else has ever thought of turning these guys into key forwards and will let us have them for nothing and they will instantly have the success because it cant be that hard.

 

[edgie]

Unfortunately our lack of recruiting KPFs over the last decade really hinders our ability to be pressing for regular top four berths over the next few years. Butcher's confidence seems to be shot, admittedly. This is not the only problem though. I just think if he had a contemporary key forward fighting for the same spot in the 22 then this would force him to be more desperate to make the third tall position his. At the same time competition would effectively take some of the pressure off of him: he wouldn't have to be the one and only Future.
Obviously I haven't offered an instant solution to this problem. My suggested solution would be using Redden as a forward/ruck backup but Jarred's injury has ruled that out.
Endorsing what I'm assuming many offers feel, the recruitment and drafting of tall forwards must be a priority at this season's end.

So when Geelong had Mooney and...

Oh, Hawkins. Mooney and Hawkins. Who was no better than Butcher at the same stage.

St Kilda had Riewoldt and... Kozie. Kozie. Who was no better at any stage of his career (possible exaggeration)

Collingwood had Cloke, and Dawes, and maybe Brown.

Fremantle have Pavlich and?

The only team to be a mainstay in the top 4 recently with 2 experienced, performing, KPF are Hawthorn.

 

[240volt]

If we would have drafted Darling in 2010 like we should have done Butcher would be under real pressure to stay on our list.
We need him to show something this season.

 

[Phhht]

If we would have drafted Darling in 2010 like we should have done Butcher would be under real pressure to stay on our list.
We need him to show something this season.

Please stop it 240, every time you mention 2010 draft i end up in a foetal position

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Please stop it 240, every time you mention 2010 draft i end up in a foetal position

Why? We got Polect.

 

[Phhht]

Why? We got Polect.

Yes but we should have Trollec and Darling instead of the ignominy of paying pick 16 for squibs Jacobs....dam i'm starting to curl up again

 

[RossFC]

2010 draft who are on our list now
Pick 5 Polec, Pick 35 Ben Newton, Pick 36 Aaron Young, Pick 52 Cam O'Shea, Pick 68 (upgraded rookie) Hitchcock, Pick 16 Rookie Draft Tom Jonas.

Looks alright to me.

 

[Phhht]

2010 draft who are on our list now
Pick 5 Polec, Pick 35 Ben Newton, Pick 36 Aaron Young, Pick 52 Cam O'Shea, Pick 68 (upgraded rookie) Hitchcock, Pick 16 Rookie Draft Tom Jonas.

Looks alright to me.

Definitely looks okish but it could have been

Pick 5 Polec, Pick 16 Darling, Pick 35 Ben Newton, Pick 36 Aaron Young, Pick 52 Cam O'Shea, Pick 68 (upgraded rookie) Hitchcock, Pick 16 Rookie Draft Tom Jonas