Opinion Butcher

[Tibbs]

he was drafted in 2009 and has played just over 20 games of A.F.L
Hope he comes good but would not hold my breath.

Therein lies your answer!!! Twenty games in 5 years!!! Guy has been riddled with injuries, no full preseasons, no chance to build a consistent base!
Just let the coaches coach him, get another full preseason in, get consistent game time in the Maggies ... and he will be cherry ripe!

 

[powersteve]

Therein lies your answer!!! Twenty games in 5 years!!! Guy has been riddled with injuries, no full preseasons, no chance to build a consistent base!
Just let the coaches coach him, get another full preseason in, get consistent game time in the Maggies ... and he will be cherry ripe!

Exactly. He dominated in his first few games which shows just how good he can be. Definitely should be persisted with.

 

[240volt]

As opposed to Butcher who showed nothing in his first season?



Westhoff has still never scored 6 goals in a match, FWIW.

The Hoff had a very strong 2007 season until the finals,i know Butcher has had his problems with injury but we drafted him injured.
i thought this was going to be his season to break out, but if anything his progress has stalled,i think we need another K.P forward in the next year or so as Schultz wont go forever.

Butcher has the talent for sure i just think its more between the ears problem with him.
I would not cut him at seasons end but you would want to see some real progress in the next 12 months.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The Hoff had a very strong 2007 season until the finals,i know Butcher has had his problems with injury but we drafted him injured.

The Hoff got an armchair ride as the 4th Banana after jumping on the bandwagon just as we launched the rocket at midseason in 2007.

He then was given 21 games in 2008 despite averaging 11 disposals and 1 goal. Pretty much dead on what Butcher is averaging this season in 3 games.

He continued to get games for the next few years while a certain element on this board wanted him dropped every single week because he was never gonna be the Tredrea replacement we needed and he couldn't put on muscle and he couldn't play 4 quarters

It took him about 5 more years to develop into the matchwinner he is today.

Why do you think we were furious when Butcher got dropped before the Brisbane game? These guys need games, and they need games when their team is up and about so they can find their feet at this level with a good team delivering the ball to them. Not to mention the whole "we're a better side structurally and it frees up Westhoff to play the chess queen (© tribey 2014) role" argument.

Just being up forward against Brisbane could have made his season. If he'd stayed in and kicked the 3 goals Sammy Gray kicked, the confidence would have started to shine through. Brisbane would have played a 190cm halfback on him while it rained footballs inside the 50 and he really would have had that opportunity to kick a bag. He was dropped way too quickly when his performances were fine and crucially he was dropped for the game that would have done him the most good.

 

[Forzaport]

The Hoff had a very strong 2007 season until the finals,i know Butcher has had his problems with injury but we drafted him injured.
i thought this was going to be his season to break out, but if anything his progress has stalled,i think we need another K.P forward in the next year or so as Schultz wont go forever.

Butcher has the talent for sure i just think its more between the ears problem with him.
I would not cut him at seasons end but you would want to see some real progress in the next 12 months.

Another ready made KPF? I think we've been trying to bring one in but we've had too many holes in our list which thankfully now we've managed to plug a heap of them. A lot has been corrected in the past 2 years but we're still suffering for some shocking list management decisions in the second half of the 00's.

We now have Butcher, Shaw and Harvey as potential successors - they need to develop. Hopefully in the next year or so we'll be seeing more of them at AFL level.

 

[240volt]

The Hoff got an armchair ride as the 4th Banana after jumping on the bandwagon just as we launched the rocket at midseason in 2007.

He then was given 21 games in 2008 despite averaging 11 disposals and 1 goal. Pretty much dead on what Butcher is averaging this season in 3 games.

He continued to get games for the next few years while a certain element on this board wanted him dropped every single week because he was never gonna be the Tredrea replacement we needed and he couldn't put on muscle and he couldn't play 4 quarters

It took him about 5 more years to develop into the matchwinner he is today..

The Hoff cost us nothing ,round 5 pick 71 Butcher cost us plenty pick 8.

 

[scotty13]

The more I see of Butch and Harvey at SANFL level, I can't help but think Harvey is more suited to a proper FF/CHF role, whereas Butch is suited more to a float around type role. Harvey has the bigger body to be used pinch hitting in a ruck contest (as he has done at SANFL level), but I'm not sure Butch is built for the same.
I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey has gone in front of Butch, but I agree that a full season into Butch, another Pre-season and who knows what he will produce.
Imagine next year having Shulz, Harvey, Butch and Westhoff roaming around the forward line. Could really stretch the opposition. (I doubt we would ever play 4tall key forwards. Maybe all 4 would play if a defender was out and Westy was playing mainly down back.)

 

[El_Scorcho]

The Hoff cost us nothing ,round 5 pick 71 Butcher cost us plenty pick 8.

The investment in a KPF doesn't stop with the draft pick you use to take them, that much should be very obvious, especially when a player has had injuries.

8 rounds into his 5th season on the list, John Butcher has played 23 AFL games.

8 rounds into his 5th season on the list, Justin Westhoff had played 77.

Butcher is behind predominantly because of injury, and we need to catch him up.

 

[Dylan8]

The Hoff cost us nothing ,round 5 pick 71 Butcher cost us plenty pick 8.

Once a bloke is on your list their draft place means nothing.

 

[Changaneen]

I'm glad some of you people on here aren't decision makers for our club. Is Butch clogging our list ?

NO !! Let him go, forget about him for a bit, get the load off his shoulders, and see if he can be a genuine contributor.

Lets start a thread on Mason Shaw.........oh hang on.

 

[Portmanteau]

The myth of bringing in a 'ready made' key forward is one of the most fanciful concepts ever. When was the last team to do it, that didn't absolutely pay through the nose or have it fall in their lap (both in Sydney's case)?

The reality is, you have to try your luck with a cast off or develop your own.

 

[Prince St]

Went to open training at AO on Wednesday, during the 20 or so minutes they had set shots at the southern stand, I only watched Butcher. All his set shots were from the same spot, 35m out and about 2 metres from the boundary, on an angle favouring left footers, a hard shot. From where I was sitting it looked like he slot his first couple, not sure how many kicks were taken but he only really missed badly on one, the others all scored. I know kicking points shouldn't really be called much of a positive but his ball drop and the shape of the ball going through the sticks was fine.

It's all in his head, had there been a crowd large enough to make him nervous he'd have put 90% of his shots on the full.

 

[Power Raid]

Butcher (contacted to the end of 2015) will remain on our list as we are only likely to make 4-6 changes at years end. Those who are un-contracted at years end are

2 Cameron Hitchcock
3 Campbell Heath
4 Brent Renouf (rookie)
5 Matthew Broadbent
14 Paul Stewart**
15 Lewis Stevenson
17 Tom Clurey
18 Kane Cornes**
22 Mason Shaw
25 Domenic Cassisi**
30 Sam Colquhoun
34 Jarrad Redden
36 Jack Hombsch
37 Kane Mitchell (rookie)
38 Ben Newton
40 Aaron Young
41 Brendon Ah Chee
44 Tom Logan**
46 Sam Gray (rookie)
47 Sam Russell (rookie)

I hope Butcher plays another 3 or 4 games this year

 

[Forzaport]

The myth of bringing in a 'ready made' key forward is one of the most fanciful concepts ever. When was the last team to do it, that didn't absolutely pay through the nose or have it fall in their lap (both in Sydney's case)?

The reality is, you have to try your luck with a cast off or develop your own.

Yeah, you're either a COLA loaded Sydney or you have more high draft picks than what you know to do with like Melbourne.

Collingwood is probably the only club to bring in a key forward (and not a very good one) at a reasonable price.

 

[Oliver King]

The myth of bringing in a 'ready made' key forward is one of the most fanciful concepts ever. When was the last team to do it, that didn't absolutely pay through the nose or have it fall in their lap (both in Sydney's case)?

The reality is, you have to try your luck with a cast off or develop your own.

When people say to me that we should delist Butcher and get in another key forward: where from? It's like there is this magical land of key forwards just waiting for us to pick up for free. Any superstar pickup will come at a price.

In my personal experience, a Butcher discussion seems to be the most heated and divisive. As in if you're not in the "delist" bandwagon, you're automatically on the "he's a superstar" train. Surely it's enough to just be in the "he's shown enough to be worth persisting with" group. How many people wouldn't we have on our list now if we jumped the gun early in their careers?

He may not amount to much at the end. But there is so much history of key forwards taking time to develop (injuries, maturity, etc) that it seems silly to make a call now. Shaw or Harvey may end up overtaking him in time, but not now. Did anybody see Boyd's games this year?

 

[Seanybruz]

The myth of bringing in a 'ready made' key forward is one of the most fanciful concepts ever. When was the last team to do it, that didn't absolutely pay through the nose or have it fall in their lap (both in Sydney's case)?

The reality is, you have to try your luck with a cast off or develop your own.

Yeah, you're either a COLA loaded Sydney or you have more high draft picks than what you know to do with like Melbourne.

Collingwood is probably the only club to bring in a key forward (and not a very good one) at a reasonable price.

Schulz? You can target & bring in a key forward with a little experience if you go after the right type of player who's not getting a fair go at his old club & looking for an opportunity for finals footy.

There might even be a few more at Richmond that might be available, both the younger KPP not getting a crack or the star dickhead variety.

 

[Forzaport]

Schulz type acquisitions are very rare.

 

[Power Raid]

Schulz type acquisitions are very rare.

yep

The only one I could think of, other than schulz at PAFC, was tim evans.

 

[Epyx]

I can actually see Butcher as the successor to Westhoff, with either Harvey or Shaw being more the ones to succeed Shulz. That would be an interesting forward line of Harvey and Shaw with Butcher floating through as the third tall and then able to push down back the same way Westhoff does now.

 

[wingardfreak]

John butcher- 23 games, 33 goals

taylor walker- first 23 games, 40 goals
tom hawkins- first 23 games, 32 goals
travis cloke- first 23 games, 13 goals
kurt tippett- first 23 games, 24 goals
jono brown - first 23 games, 22 goals
nick Riewoldt- first 23 games, 17 goals
jack Riewoldt- first 23 games, 23 goals
matt pavlich- first 23 games, 25 goals

considering most of these players had a much less injury interrupted start to their careers, id say butch's numbers stack up very well. he just need some time to play consistent injury free football, he'll get there.

 

[240volt]

Once a bloke is on your list their draft place means nothing.

That is very true as is who you draft can make a very big difference to how successful your club will be on and off the field.
The players we have drafted in the last couple of years has made a massive difference to our on field performances and are a major factor in our success since Ken took over.

 

[n4nirvana]

John butcher- 23 games, 33 goals

taylor walker- first 23 games, 40 goals
tom hawkins- first 23 games, 32 goals
travis cloke- first 23 games, 13 goals
kurt tippett- first 23 games, 24 goals
jono brown - first 23 games, 22 goals
nick Riewoldt- first 23 games, 17 goals
jack Riewoldt- first 23 games, 23 goals
matt pavlich- first 23 games, 25 goals

considering most of these players had a much less injury interrupted start to their careers, id say butch's numbers stack up very well. he just need some time to play consistent injury free football, he'll get there.

nice research bro

 

[VineValerian]

Yeah, you're either a COLA loaded Sydney or you have more high draft picks than what you know to do with like Melbourne.

Collingwood is probably the only club to bring in a key forward (and not a very good one) at a reasonable price.

This x 2.

I doubt Butch will ever make it, but until we can get a ready made KPF we keep him on the list for insurance if Sarge or Hoff go down whilst Shaw and Harvey are developing. If he is not gonna make it another couple if years' time, then offload him to Richmond

 

[Tibbs]

Once a bloke is on your list their draft place means nothing.

Tell that to the recruiter who gets sacked for stuffing up & wasting an early draft pick on some knob!!!

 

[Hellgood]

Tell that to the recruiter who gets sacked for stuffing up & wasting an early draft pick on some knob!!!

What on earth has that got to do with anything related to this case?