Opinion Butcher

[Jumbo]

All this comparison with Tredders is bewildering

 

[edgie]

I'd love the Butch to stay so much, but if making salary cap space comes down to him or Schulz, it is Butcher every day who makes way.

Perhaps a new, lower contract.

 

[Changaneen]

Tredrea was multiple AA by the same age. But otherwise I agree...

Yea as I said. Not comparing the two by any stretch. Just trying to say if we gave Butch half the chance we gave Wazz, he could be twice the player he is.

 

[Changaneen]

All this comparison with Tredders is bewildering

Read deeper into my posts.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Oh and Westhoff but he's barely a key forward. A very tall, agile utility player.

Dixon - A guy who has peaked at 14 games for a single season (62 games total)
Butcher - A guy who has peaked at 8 games for a single season (24 games total)
Howard,
Harvey,
Shaw

Add

Ryder (i rememeber reading a quote from when we got him where he said he prefered to be a forward than a ruckman)
Austin (played a lot as a forward)
Frampton (being seen as more of a forward than ruck by many)

thats an awful lot of developing talls. maybe our problem isnt quantity its quality.

i think we really need a top shelf ruckman so ryder can be back up. how good would it be if we had someone who could consistantly do those taps overhead to a running gray...who could then fire it into a forward line with ryder parked in there.

 

[Dylan8]

Dixon - A guy who has peaked at 14 games for a single season (62 games total)
Butcher - A guy who has peaked at 8 games for a single season (24 games total)
Howard, Harvey, Shaw, possible new rookies (0 games total experience)

Add

Shaw
Ryder (i rememeber reading a quote from when we got him where he said he prefered to be a forward than a ruckman)
Austin (played a lot as a forward)
Frampton (being seen as more of a forward than ruck by many)

i think we really need a top shelf ruckman so ryder can be back up

Shaw is there and again - zero games experience. What you saw from Butcher today Shaw would probably struggle to replicate.
Austin is a key back. Straw clutching. Zero games.
Frampton ruck/forward. Zero games.

Ryder, granted, but with Lobbe floundering who knows. You've got that quote backwards, I'm certain it was something about preferring ruck but then again who knows if it's legit. I prefer him forward and think he can do massive damage there but it's a matter of where Lobbe sits.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Shaw is there and again - zero games experience. What you saw from Butcher today Shaw would probably struggle to replicate.
Austin is a key back. Straw clutching. Zero games.
Frampton ruck/forward. Zero games.

Ryder, granted, but with Lobbe floundering who knows. You've got that quote backwards, I'm certain it was something about preferring ruck but then again who knows if it's legit. I prefer him forward and think he can do massive damage there but it's a matter of where Lobbe sits.

i just edited a bit. DOnt hink Austin is clutching at straws too much. If we needed a forward he is an option seeing as he played there most. Its not like a bobby who is a out and out full back.

Like is said in edit....we have many younng developing talls...and butcher falls into that category. But the problem for me is quality, not quantity. And i dont think butcher adds anyhting to that.

Maybe all this conersation for me has done is highlight that we do need to get Dixon over another top midfielder.

 

[*PAF]

Depends. What's he being marked on? If you want that reliable Schulzesque spearhead who'll nail setshots within range 7-8 times out of 10 then he's boned.

If you want a big imposing warhorse who can provide a target/contest/knuckle now we're talking. This year the amount of times we've seen the ball effortlessly rebounded by our opponents if Schulz doesn't take the grab - contested or otherwise - has been infuriating. Not all his fault of course, he's been expected to do it all this year.

If Butcher doesn't take the grab - historically and today - it's more often than not human carnage giving us a second-chance contest, which is what CHF's were originally all about before Carey broke the mould.

For all his flaws he made us a far more honest and direct team today and I just hope he's given a chance to build on something in the coming weeks.

Good post and to add Butcher also stays on his feet and is able to compete again.
Like you said it's all about what the marking criteria is and for mine we are missing the traits that Butcher brings to the table.
He brings other players into the play, and he does it in our forward 50.

 

[Coobk001]

Do you guys reckon he is 100% delisted?

After today, yes 100%. Guy can't kick. 6 years in we're not just talking about a minor kicking deficiency, we're talking about complete and utter amateur league div 7 reserves quality kicking.

 

[drcollossimo]

Both kern and Hartlett mention JBs game tonight, he likely won't make it but I reckon it's odds on he is on the list in 2016.

I thought he provided a strong contest at the ball all game and especially in the last got some more mojo back.

With Shaw perma-injured, Harvey, Austin and palmer still in nappies I wouldn't write of JB as having something to give even if that something is providing time for the above to grow ....

 

[Changaneen]

Dixon - A guy who has peaked at 14 games for a single season (62 games total)
Butcher - A guy who has peaked at 8 games for a single season (24 games total)
Howard,
Harvey,
Shaw

Add

Ryder (i rememeber reading a quote from when we got him where he said he prefered to be a forward than a ruckman)
Austin (played a lot as a forward)
Frampton (being seen as more of a forward than ruck by many)

thats an awful lot of developing talls. maybe our problem isnt quantity its quality.

i think we really need a top shelf ruckman so ryder can be back up. how good would it be if we had someone who could consistantly do those taps overhead to a running gray...who could then fire it into a forward line with ryder parked in there.

Paddy seems to be putting the ball down our mids throats quite consistently thank you. He spoon fed Robbie all day. Are you watching the same team? I like Paddy as 1st ruck. Paddy likes Paddy as 1st ruck.

 

[1954]

After today, yes 100%. Guy can't kick. 6 years in we're not just talking about a minor kicking deficiency, we're talking about complete and utter amateur league div 7 reserves quality kicking.

Unfortunately that is right on the money cookie boy.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Unfortunately that is right on the money cookie boy.

please tell me how ive been saying it wrongly to get called the dumberst poster on this whole board for saying the same thing?

 

[El_Scorcho]

He played like how a resting ruck plays up forward - think back to Primus, Brogan etc. Crashed a few packs, chased a bit, but provided no leading, no repeat leading, unable to get any space on his opponent and was constantly caught out of position (hence the best he could actually do was just crash a few packs). You hope they clunk a mark and kick a goal and thats it. Had a good last quarter, and I was as excited as anyone when he went near the ball, but these are issues that he's had since day 1 and hasn't improved since day 1.

He played exactly how you'd expect a 24 game KPF who has spent a month playing in defence at SANFL level to play. Better, even. If he's backed in for a few games, a few more of those marks stick, he makes a few more good runs, and he ends up with a 4 goal 7 mark game.

Most importantly, he did exactly what i've been saying for 2 years he'd do for our structure. All of a sudden our forward entries were direct. There was no kicking to a player leading out to the boundary. Our players had faith that Butch would make a contest. Westhoff was able to get freer than usual. The smalls got involved. We played like a normal football team going inside 50.

We are a better football team with that sort of player in the side. I'm happy for him to play the next 50 games like that with the odd bigger game thrown in. We'll be a better side for it.

As someone said in the review thread, having 2 6'5 targets up there absolutely wreaked havoc with the GWS defenders, and there was so much more space in the forward 50 than usual.

Our normal tall forwardline doesn't contain that sort of player and tonight showed me just how much we need it. Imagine if he was a 60-70 gamer and was clunking a few more of those marks and a bit more au fait with the players delivering him the ball. He turns into a very valuable player.

 

[El_Scorcho]

please tell me how ive been saying it wrongly to get called the dumberst poster on this whole board for saying the same thing?

You've been called the dumbest poster on this board (well, you haven't really, have you, you've just been told you don't know what you're on about) because you try to expand your criticism beyond the fact that he can't kick and expose your lack of understanding of how we play as a team and how the game is played in 2015.

If you were just arguing he can't kick, that's fine. I think tonight showed that he can still add a heap of value to our forward line despite a couple of missed set shots (as well as nailing the most important one)

 

[Changaneen]

please tell me how ive been saying it wrongly to get called the dumberst poster

Your grammars not the best

I'll grant you though you do put up some good debate. That's what this board is all about. You don't continuously bag the club or Ken post after post, like one or two other nut jobs here. You go ok

 

[Sims01]

Love this photo.

 

[Changaneen]

He played exactly how you'd expect a 24 game KPF who has spent a month playing in defence at SANFL level to play. Better, even. If he's backed in for a few games, a few more of those marks stick, he makes a few more good runs, and he ends up with a 4 goal 7 mark game.

Most importantly, he did exactly what i've been saying for 2 years he'd do for our structure. All of a sudden our forward entries were direct. There was no kicking to a player leading out to the boundary. Our players had faith that Butch would make a contest. Westhoff was able to get freer than usual. The smalls got involved. We played like a normal football team going inside 50.

We are a better football team with that sort of player in the side. I'm happy for him to play the next 50 games like that with the odd bigger game thrown in. We'll be a better side for it.

As someone said in the review thread, having 2 6'5 targets up there absolutely wreaked havoc with the GWS defenders, and there was so much more space in the forward 50 than usual.

Our normal tall forwardline doesn't contain that sort of player and tonight showed me just how much we need it. Imagine if he was a 60-70 gamer and was clunking a few more of those marks and a bit more au fait with the players delivering him the ball. He turns into a very valuable player.

Put better than I could.

 

[Macca19]

Most importantly, he did exactly what i've been saying for 2 years he'd do for our structure. All of a sudden our forward entries were direct. There was no kicking to a player leading out to the boundary. Our players had faith that Butch would make a contest. Westhoff was able to get freer than usual. The smalls got involved. We played like a normal football team going inside 50.

We are a better football team with that sort of player in the side. I'm happy for him to play the next 50 games like that with the odd bigger game thrown in. We'll be a better side for it.

As someone said in the review thread, having 2 6'5 targets up there absolutely wreaked havoc with the GWS defenders, and there was so much more space in the forward 50 than usual.

I think this is getting over played. At 3/4 time we had 16 more inside 50s and were behind. We were anything but efficient going forward.

Our normal tall forwardline doesn't contain that sort of player and tonight showed me just how much we need it.

Ryder has been crashing packs all year. And taking marks. And kicking goals.

 

[1954]

please tell me how ive been saying it wrongly to get called the dumberst poster on this whole board for saying the same thing?

If it makes you feel any better young fella, I reckon your'e a long way from being the dumbest poster on the board.

 

[Macca19]

Its all mental with his action. In the pre game warm up he had a set structural run up of the same number of steps each time. X steps before X jogging steps before kick. Whilst he was only kicking about 50% from 30 out, it was the same run up, each time. A bit rigid, but it was there.

Then comes that first shot on goal and its completely different. Looked like someone that hadn't kicked a football before. Chalk and Cheese. Its amazing what pressure can do.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I think this is getting over played. At 3/4 time we had 16 more inside 50s and were behind. We were anything but efficient going forward.

That's basically because heaps of GWS's inside 50s were from our turnovers where they streamed forward into the 50 outnumbering us and getting easy goals.

We also had 60 inside 50s for 31 scoring shots. Not a terrible ratio, and we missed a lot of very gettable shots.

Ryder has been crashing packs all year. And taking marks. And kicking goals.

Yeah but when Ryder is up forward we've been getting smashed at the stoppages and not getting the ball forward to take advantage.

Cloning Ryder or trading in Dixon should solve a lot of this issue.

 

[1954]

Love this photo.

Got to love the bloke's passion, and I doubt there is a genuine Port supporter anywhere who doesn't/didn't want Butch to succeed, but alas I fear it's too little, too late.

That aside I wouldn't begrudge the bloke a rookie list spot.

 

[*PAF]

I think this is getting over played. At 3/4 time we had 16 more inside 50s and were behind. We were anything but efficient going forward.



Ryder has been crashing packs all year. And taking marks. And kicking goals.

He added something that we have been sorely missing, unpredictability.
If he ever geta to play like he did in the last quarter consistently for 2 1/2 quarters or more we will be a much better team.
It would be nice but it doesn't have to be for 4 quarters, not even Wingard does that.

Lately we have been playing like the proverbial Crowbots where it all goes smoothly until teams work you out.

Butcher has to play every game for the rest of the year.

 

[Doctor Feel]

My bet is shaw will leave, schulz will stay, butcher to get a one year contract regardless of the dixon situation.