Opinion Butcher

[AJJPAFC]

I posted in another thread about this. There was a couple of supporters around us that were just terrible. I've never heard such venom directed at our own players. One guy had enough and told them why bother coming to bag your own players you effen d**khead

This element is particularly vocal at Maggies home games. I'm not a huge Butcher fan, but I do not see the point of hanging shit on our own. Particularly at SANFL games where they can hear a fair bit of what's being said.

 

[Duck Farmer]

I'm sick to death of people saying Tredrea was a bad shot for goal. It simply WAS NOT TRUE.
I'll grant you, he shanked the occasional set shot from 30 and had a awkward looking, un-natural action - but overall he was a reasonable shot for goal...

It use to annoy me when I came on this board and all the armchair experts were calling from him to be moved to CHB.
"Move him to CHB and put Chad Cornes to CHF" was the main call...

Now, lets put some facts into this argument...
Over his career, Tredrea kicked 549.362, which equates to 60.2%. Only once - in 2002 - did he score more behinds that goals (32.35)

Now for a couple some comparisons...
The best CHF I've seen is Wayne Carey. I would've thought most people would say he's a reasonable kick for goal.
Known for kicking the pressure goal - the captains goal. Anyone want to have a guess what his goal kicking percentage was?

61.2% (727.457) - not a hell of a lot better, be the perception is he was a lot better....

Other CHF's...
Jonathan Brown - 64.6% (594.325)
Nick Riewoldt - 60.77% (646.417)
Chris Grant - 59.7% (554.374)
Nick Holland - 60.3% (239.157)
Matthew Richardson - 59.2% (800.551)

Against FF's
Jay Schulz. Sharp-shooter. Never misses. Well, he's kicking at 66.9% over his career (316.156)
The greatest goalkicker of all time, Tony Lockett finished with 70.13% (1125.479)

Was he god's gift to goal kicking - no...
But he wasn't as bad as what you guys are saying either - no where near it...

And to even mention Butcher in the same sentence it just disrespectful...


"Oh, what about Chad Cornes? " I hear you ask...
Well, he kicked 179.165 for a percentage of 52.03%

John Butcher - 69.4% (35.14). Just saying' ...

 

[steve4445]

This element is particularly vocal at Maggies home games. I'm not a huge Butcher fan, but I do not see the point of hanging shit on our own. Particularly at SANFL games where they can hear a fair bit of what's being said.

even members of our own "cheer squad" yesterday when he was kicking for goal were turning around and putting their hand over their eyes - Imagine if you were Butcher and you seen that as you were kicking for goal that would do your confidence the world of good wouldn't it? Dheads

 

[Power Raid]

did his job? how many goals he kick again? FFS people. what are people so afraid of calling a spade a spade? Sure he is a great bloke, and i loved seeing him kick that goal. But come on, if that was a good game by a tall forward then maybe Lobbe has had a great year after all.

You might be right but I think most people see Schulz is ageing, Harvey and Shaw still have major question marks, Dixson is no certainty, Ryder is a ruck and westhoff isn't a FF.

So do we drop butcher without giving him a last chance and not give him a few games straight?

 

[TeeKray]

John Butcher - 69.4% (35.14). Just saying' ...

Kicked at 100% (1.0) yesterday too

 

[tribey]

You might be right but I think most people see Schulz is ageing, Harvey and Shaw still have major question marks, Dixson is no certainty, Ryder is a ruck and westhoff isn't a FF.

So do we drop butcher without giving him a last chance and not give him a few games straight?

He's not right.

 

[Powerstufff]

... So do we drop butcher without giving him a last chance and not give him a few games straight?

It's a complex question.
Has he been told his time at Port was over and was yesterday a straight selection based on team need? If so apply the same criteria this week and if he's not the best available option drop him.
Has he been told his slow improvement in more diverse roles in the SANFL has earnt him a brief chance in the AFL to earn a contract extension (of any type)? Then play him, at least this week.
He may also find a spot elsewhere on the ground, as in the SANFL, while we trial a few of our other reserve forwards. It's clear Hinkley is in the mood to be pretty creative with selection at present.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

 

[raman]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

Exactly. That story was 100% bollocks.

 

[Adam Marrett23]

I'd rather see Butch play the last 3 game over Schultz. If Butch is playing for his career give him the chance to save it. We know what Schultz brings to the table, would like to see Butch given the 3 games see what he has to offer

 

[Powerstufff]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

I tend to agree with you. Maybe, to quote the Princess Bride*, "Turns out your friend here is only MOSTLY dead."

* Edit - actually Miracle Max in the Princess Bride

 

[Boss351]

Like a Stephen King nightmare Butch's missing 3rd of a tongue is gonna hunt you in your slumber

I'll never be convinced he's entirely sure himself what he's doing but he does have see ball get ball at the front of his brain.

it's no coincidence that Butch and Jasper are good mates, 2 players that can excite and truly baffle, makes you wonder what goes through their brains on the field

 

[Chewy316]

I have a big conundrum going on in my head when it comes to Butcher. He puts in a lot of effort, does all the one percenters etc. No one can have a go at him for any of that. But, his fundamentals are just terrible. There is no other way to describe it. When he came into the league back in 2010, the knocks on him were that he moved with great awkwardness, couldn't stay healthy, and didn't have a "footy brain" so to speak. Well, let's now go to 2015, almost 6 years since he was drafted at the end of 2009, and he still moves awkwardly, doesn't have a footy brain (Macca summed it up very well in the review thread) and is quite possibly the worst set shot for goal as a forward that this club has ever had. But hey, he's healthy now, only took 5 years to get that far (last year was his first uninterrupted pre-season).

As a fan, we all look at those fundamentals and can't help but think "it's going to click eventually, some coach is going to get it out of him. He does the little things, surely the coaches will get his kicking right." We are still saying this today. No coach to date has gotten it out of him.

There comes a point when enough is enough, time to pull the pin. He's been in the system long enough to have a proper crack. And frankly, had he not been a first rounder, had those 2 amazing games to start his career, and be on a very good long term contract, we would have given up on him at least 12-18 months ago. To me, he's not going to improve as a player. He is what he is. A guy who will give you his all, but is simply not good enough, nor reliable enough to put in our side. The only way I'd like him to remain on our list is if he gets delisted and re-rookied, earning the minimum.

 

[Rexie J]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

Top post

With no pre-game preparation or knowledge he was playing , Butch performed beyond expectations. Centred a short kick around the body for our first goal. Always had two defenders on him, competed well and not the least effective player out there. Not a star but lets apply the same kicking to a host of other players. Yep, in the third quarter, Hoff's great mark in defence followed by a 'perfect' kick to GWS CHF area - sorry, Mitch you weren't tall enough! and I didn't see that really tall bloke in front of you..............FFS!!!

As Ken said in the Magarey Room, "I'm sick of people putting s**t on Butch"

 

[Dave Omsby]

I'd play Butch for the rest of the year , he's never been THAT bad and has usually showed a bit of promise , you never know how he'll react if he settles and gets his confidence up .

 

[*PAF]

Everyone would have to agree with the descriptions of Butcher's so called 'limitations', but one also needs to consider if the team improves with him playing, limitations or not.

Where posters like me come from, is that we think more often than not the team does play better when Butcher plays.

 

[Sleezy]

All debate over Butcher's value to the side, poor management & ability to make it aside...

The magic from maffra coming of age is my happy place. I believe.

 

[Duck Farmer]

At the game I didn't think he did much but watching the replay I noticed a lot of good contributions and teamwork. I think his cards have been marked but it would be nice to see him get another year given our KPF stocks are:

1. Getting old
2. Development projects
3. Non-existant

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Where posters like me come from, is that we think more often than not the team does play better when Butcher plays.

over the past two seasons he has played a total of 5 games. 3 wins and 2 losses. So i guess your right.

 

[Portology]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

I don't know anything about if he's been told as such but there is a 'chinese whisper' type story bouncing around some ppl "associated with" the club (not in day to day footy ops) that he is gone, as in will be gone. I've not been a Butcher optimist this year but gossip like that is just plain disrespectful. Gave my friend the blabberer some "feedback" to that effect.

 

[*PAF]

over the past two seasons he has played a total of 5 games. 3 wins and 2 losses. So i guess your right.

One of those losses was the Freo game where we played quite well. It pobably was one of our better games this year.

Before it goes too far sideways, is Butcher the answer? To be that he needs to improve the other parts of his game, but we sure lack the good things that he does bring to the plate.

 

[Peck]

I don't believe we'd have played him if, as the rumour goes, he's already been told he's gone. What would the benefit be in that?

Mate I think you need to update your signature!

How did Butcher go yesterday? I wasn't able to watch the game, and I don't think I'll get a chance to see the replay unless I'm really keen (which I'm not )

 

[Rexie J]

Mate I think you need to update your signature!

How did Butcher go yesterday? I wasn't able to watch the game, and I don't think I'll get a chance to see the replay unless I'm really keen (which I'm not )

Listen to/watch Ken's presser on the PAFC site and that will provide the coach's opinion.

 

[Mangus Onfries]

I watched the presser and am now more confused than ever. It sounds like Ken likes what Butch has to offer but won't play him. Like I said, confused.

 

[Rexie J]

I watched the presser and am now more confused than ever. It sounds like Ken likes what Butch has to offer but won't play him. Like I said, confused.

I understand that and it's often dangerous to assume or interpret another person's words but it was said Butch did exactly as he was asked to do in this match. Anyway, that's the impression I got when Ken spoke briefly in the Magarey Room.

Can Ken's words be interpreted any wider, who knows.