Opinion Butcher

[*PAF]

Said often kicks short which is not a bad thing because the options have been there for him to do so, it is has been our game style that works for him. I've seen him run along the left wing and deliver two kicks on his left side and hit the chest. I've seen him kick wide and short of a player on his right boot several times. I've seen him hit his short-up targets several times ... basically since he's been played in defence. We're playing him as a forward in the afl and it isn't pretty. Could he be groomed to play a Westhoff role? I just don't have confidence in him being a full-time specialist forward.

Only recall one pass not hitting the target by dropping just short, however our player was still first to it. Plenty long accurate inside 50 passes to the hot spot.
That is the only 'missed' pass I can recall in the last few games. Probably turns out to be a better average than our other players.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Your value as an AFL player is almost singularly determined by whether you create opportunities or need to rely on others. Butch has shown he can create opportunities for himself and others through his contested marking and pack busting.

If he can get his goalkicking approaching league average levels,he is a genuine key forward option. If he can't he is a decent back-up option (for now), based on the above point.

That's the thing. He doesn't have to be Scott Hodges or Jay Schulz out there, he just has to be OK. If his kicking was up to the standard of a decent ammos full forward, even that would probably be enough in combination with his strength, athleticism, work rate and his fantastic marking ability. Surely, surely, a highly resourced AFL club can manage to get a full-time professional footballer to the standard of an ammos player?

 

[johnnysix]

It's all going to come down to list management. Can another player fill that spot on the list better? Somebody with more potential?
If not, then we should probably keep him. He's a crowd favourite because we all, including the club, have so much invested in him. We all want to justify the patience we've shown in him. I don't think there are many players on our list that have had more benefit of the doubt. Other players have come and gone. He's a bit like the house you hope will sell for a tidy sum if you pump more money into it. I don't think we are looking for an average bit player at this point. There are players everywhere with "potential". We need him to become a regular member of our team. If we don't feel like he's going to reach that, then it's worth offering that spot to somebody who can. I'm not anti-Butcher, quite the opposite. I want him to succeed. He's shown what we all know he can do in these last games, it's purely his goal kicking that he needs to improve.

 

[PA88]

Only recall one pass not hitting the target by dropping just short, however our player was still first to it. Plenty long accurate inside 50 passes to the hot spot.
That is the only 'missed' pass I can recall in the last few games. Probably turns out to be a better average than our other players.

I'm talking as a chb with the Magpies where he's played more games, practically a season in that position. In the Power side in the past few weeks he's been better with those field kicks, yes, and probably in part with his time at chb in the sanfl. It could be a matter of where equilibrium shift settles if he strings a season of afl games together.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

You watch him take a set shot for goal and by the time he's launched the ball he looks like Michael Flatley having a seizure. It's like he's either trying to remember 8 million things at once or just getting it over with before anyone notices he's kicking the ball. In the field he just laces out what looks like an old Darrell Cahill stab pass.

 

[PA88]

He keeps taking 3-4 contested marks a week, putting opposition defenders down like nine-pins, and he's a cult hero.

Towards the end of last season the Magpies crowd tolerance had waivered. I'm just thinking about the guy's well being if he was to continuously kick poorly for goals in rows of afl games.

 

[noffle]

That's the thing. He doesn't have to be Scott Hodges or Jay Schulz out there, he just has to be OK. If his kicking was up to the standard of a decent ammos full forward, even that would probably be enough in combination with his strength, athleticism, work rate and his fantastic marking ability. Surely, surely, a highly resourced AFL club can manage to get a full-time professional footballer to the standard of an ammos player?

Yeah exactly, if he was a lead-and-mark forward it would be different, but given the quality of his contested marking all Butcher needs to do is find a way to convert from the hotspot and he becomes a massive headache for any defence.

 

[Jim Dixon]

Be madness to not give JB another year after we've given him the last 4 games. From a list management point of view, he's got all the tools except one, he'll be on minimum wage so he'll help us manage our salary cap issues, and he's got substantial upside if we can solve his problem.

We don't need him to be another Schulz or Tredrea. Just needs to kick 1-2 goals a game, an assist, and take a clunking mark and crash a few packs. He's doing that now, just about.

 

[johnnysix]

Yeah exactly, if he was a lead-and-mark forward it would be different, but given the quality of his contested marking all Butcher needs to do is find a way to convert from the hotspot and he becomes a massive headache for any defense.

Agree completely and I think we've all known for a while that he'd be great at that. I think he's basically like another Westhoff we can stick down forward, but the difference is that Westhoff kicks goals. Every mark you take and then miss a goal from is a forward entry wasted. In my mind we give him another year, but is he realistically going to get games if we have a fit and firing team?

 

[El_Scorcho]

He keeps taking 3-4 contested marks a week, putting opposition defenders down like nine-pins, and he's a cult hero.

Yep, the idea that the average Port fan isn't well aware of his kicking issues is just silly. Everybody knows. People love him anyway.

What he's proved in the games that he was given at the end of the season, is that he makes us a better side regardless of his kicking, and he's performing at a level where he's contributing. Was that double figure score involvements yesterday? Leading the team for marks inside 50 and contested marks?

He's worth persisting with for at least one more season and that's as obvious as it ever has been. As I said earlier, give him a specific set shot coach and give that coach a healthy financial incentive related to Butch's set shot accuracy at both levels for next season.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Matty Nicks on AA really talked up Butcher and the contribution he makes to the playing group in so many ways that you don't see. Even made him missing shots sound lie a good thing because when he kicked one it fired everyone up, players, coaches and crowd. He did joke about the one kicked off his knee for a goal. Sounded positive for Butch.

Nicks mentioned mental demons and drew the parallel with Ian Baker Finch. He said the club had done a lot of work with Butch over the years and would continue to investigate options.

Rucci suggested getting Matty Lloyd out to talk to him as another gun forward who had goal kicking issues as a young player.

 

[Powerstufff]

..... He (Nicks) said the club had done a lot of work with Butch over the years and would continue to investigate options .....

Sounds like straight out saying his contract will be extended.

 

[Seanybruz]

Assuming we lose Schulz to Freo we desperately need to get Butchers goal kicking to a standard where he can convert at least half of his opportunities, Dixon isn't all that mobile so we'll need the manic defensive pressure from our next CHF which Butch offers.

I love Butch & think he has 90% of the tools to become an adequate long term forward option for us it's just that crucial missing piece which only needs to improve to a point in which he's kicking 2-3 goals a game when he's clunking 4-5 marks or setting up crumbing opportunities for our smalls.

 

[*PAF]

You watch him take a set shot for goal and by the time he's launched the ball he looks like Michael Flatley having a seizure. It's like he's either trying to remember 8 million things at once or just getting it over with before anyone notices he's kicking the ball. In the field he just laces out what looks like an old Darrell Cahill stab pass.

8 million things at once.

 

[crafty_bernardo]

"Hawthorn legend Dermott Brereton yesterday said Casboult has a “rank” ball drop and he was no certainty to score inside 30m." Sounds familiar...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...oalkicking-style/story-fni5f5nx-1227302518894

Approach Sav Rocca who's working part-time with Carlton and Levi Casboult. From all those Carlton Friday night games this year I've partially tuned in to there's been definite improvement with Casboult.

 

[SupportMe]

You can legally set the ball on the ground and take a spot kick when lining up for goal in AFL can't you?

Could work for him.

 

[SgtSchulz]

Can you imagine how damaging a confident butcher would be. Would crash packs even harder.

 

[Powerstufff]

You can legally set the ball on the ground and take a spot kick when lining up for goal in AFL can't you? ....

The old PAFC player (Alan Greer *) did that as part of the pre-game yesterday. Apparently our oldest premiership player, I did note 'most-improved 1949'.

* Edit - thank you for the right name portly

 

[PJ Power]

Assuming we lose Schulz to Freo we desperately need to get Butchers goal kicking to a standard where he can convert at least half of his opportunities, Dixon isn't all that mobile so we'll need the manic defensive pressure from our next CHF which Butch offers.

I love Butch & think he has 90% of the tools to become an adequate long term forward option for us it's just that crucial missing piece which only needs to improve to a point in which he's kicking 2-3 goals a game when he's clunking 4-5 marks or setting up crumbing opportunities for our smalls.

Even getting Dixon, we will miss the lead up, agile option that Schulz has always been.

A Schulz-Dixon partnership would have been perfect really.

 

[BrockBlitz]

Even getting Dixon, we will miss the lead up, agile option that Schulz has always been.

A Schulz-Dixon partnership would have been perfect really.

But,

Dixon butcher is better than Schulz butcher.

 

[BrockBlitz]

* I was drinking where all the port boys were last night - schulz got a chant from the whole bar trying to convince him to stay. He just looked guilty.

Broady gets loose. BOG

 

[portly]

^^^^ Alan Greer

 

[PJ Power]

Yep, the idea that the average Port fan isn't well aware of his kicking issues is just silly. Everybody knows. People love him anyway.

What he's proved in the games that he was given at the end of the season, is that he makes us a better side regardless of his kicking, and he's performing at a level where he's contributing. Was that double figure score involvements yesterday? Leading the team for marks inside 50 and contested marks?

He's worth persisting with for at least one more season and that's as obvious as it ever has been. As I said earlier, give him a specific set shot coach and give that coach a healthy financial incentive related to Butch's set shot accuracy at both levels for next season.

If they're going to persist though with him on the list, then they have to give him an extended run at AFL level. No point him playing rounds 1 and 2, and then being dropped for the next 15 weeks.

He gets little out of playing SANFL - it merely accentuates his demons. Back him in and play him rain or shine for ten weeks and see what happens. I know it sounds contradictory when we want others to earn their spots on form, but this is needs to become a proper investment. The more we put in, the bigger the reward.

Butcher is the most confidence dependent player I have seen. Just back him in.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If they're going to persist though with him on the list, then they have to give him an extended run at AFL level. No point him playing rounds 1 and 2, and then being dropped for the next 15 weeks.

He gets little out of playing SANFL - it merely accentuates his demons. Back him in and play him rain or shine for ten weeks and see what happens. I know it sounds contradictory when we want others to earn their spots on form, but this is needs to become a proper investment. The more we put in, the bigger the reward.

Butcher is the most confidence dependent player I have seen. Just back him in.

Agree totally and completely. In fact unless we get Dixon and keep Schulz, he's best 22 anyway.

Hell, if he manages to develop an okay set shot over the summer, even with Schulz, Dixon and Westhoff on the list, he's making an enormous case for best 22.

 

[Tibbs]

I have always had "a glass half full" view of Butcher. At the match yesterday, I must admit to a feeling of despair watching that first kick of his! It was just awful, not just bad .... It was woeful, almost unbearable to watch! I had the thought then that it was all over ... Butch was gone!

Then as the game unfolded, he just imposed himself up forward.... Awesome marks, smashing packs, goal assists. Imagine if you could blend him with Schulz's kick ... He would be an AFL superstar!! By the end of the game, with one goal under his belt, I had forgiven him. Certainly has shown he is an AFL forward. Now throw everything at him ... Give him every chance through the preseason to get his crap together. He is good enough, and young enough to be worth persisting with.