Bye Bye Jack

[didaka]

Look, I would like to see the back of him for the duration of the season and obviously get Presti and Reid back in that side, but don't under estimate the fact that for the last 3 or so years Jack has been developed as a forward and has just recently gone back.

It took Reid quite a while to learn the defensive craft again after starting his 'AFL' career as a forward, so cut Jack some slack. If he sticks around at the club and he develops down back a bit more in the 2's, he may come good.

One thing for sure is he really needs to beef up over the pre-season. Walker drawfed him.

I think we're lucky it was a bad day for the forwards, otherwise Jack's man could've tore us to shreds.

On the other hand, some of Brown's work on the more dangerous Tippett were fantastic and once Presti gives it the arse he is going to be such an assett. We're very lucky to have a player like Brown waiting in the wings.

 

[Invigoration]

His confidence ball in hand coming out of defence wasn't flash either

In fairness, we were extremely stagnant coming out of defence, more often than not it was because players up the field weren't providing any sort of option.

I did say earlier that I thought he walked on egg shells a bit with ball in hand, I don't think that's unexpected though. First true game he has played in defence at AFL for awhile (if ever) and it was probably one of the most pressurised games we've played in all year, you can't blame him for being cautious and unwilling to make a mistake.
His kicking on the whole was still quite good.

I much preferred Jack's 1 turnover and 0 critical errors to Goldsack's 8 turnovers and 6 critical errors.

The keeping the feet thing is an issue no doubt, but it's being over exaggerated, just as it was with Reid. Nate couldn't hold his feet much either last night and it's never traditionally been a major problem with him.

but last night he was hardly good

Very few we had last night were good, but JA was nowhere near the levels of hysteria exhibited in this thread. I thought he first half was actually pretty good to be honest, we got smashed in the I50s yet the only shot on goal Walker had was from the Jolly dropped ball.

 

[bucksisbest]

He wasn't terrible in pressuring Walker in the initial contest. But it was his inability to keep his feet , panicking with the ball and silly decisions around the contest .
I just don't think he has the mental discipline to be an AFL defender , apart from a few other things.

Goldsack was atleast as bad last night and more costly. But he has more runs on the board and more upside down back.

 

[Optimax]

I've posted that i found sack terrible and expected more given he was allowed to be loose as harry got tagged.

I also dont rate walker all that much, sure he looks good occassionally but he's hardly a gun.

On jack i worry about any defender that struggles to hold his feet, he has always had the issue keeping his feet as he turns. If he is to make it as a defender it'll only be a 3rd option, meaning he's probably comepting with harry, maxwell, etc and he doesnt have a case to oust them yet.

Like you last week invig, you know i don't blindly hate for hate sake, but in my mind jack is currently 4th KPD and a long way back. That doesnt mean trade or delist just my view of it.

 

[half_back_flank]

He never makes a second effort.

Other than Toovs, i thought that Jack's pressure in the defensive 50 was better than anyone. Laid some great tackles and nullified Walker.

And for those saying to give him another chance as he played out of his favoured position - he came to the club as a defender, and he only ever gets one of the best in the VFL when he plays in the backline.

Hasn't played back there since 2007, in 2008 he broke his neck and 2009 he kicked 50 goals in a season. People were fine to allow Medders a couple of mistakes because he'd been in the VFL for so long, yet Jack has played 6 or so games down back in the VFL in 3 years and he gets lynched?

I'm behind all of them except Jack. We never play well when he's in the side.

2009 ********.

Your kidding! He got out bodied in every contest yesterday lucky we werent playing Geelong. He was terrible in that position in the VFL and no way did he deserve to get a game yesterday. He will be dropped or Roughead or Franklin will kick a bag on him. I dont hate Jack but he shouldnt be played as a deffender.

Absolute bulllshit, Jack had Walker covered in the air all night, his positioning bar that free kick where he was left one on one with Adelaide streaming through the middle was exceptional.

This thread is very very poor, looks like Jack is the new Josh.

 

[Invigoration]

I've posted that i found sack terrible and expected more given he was allowed to be loose as harry got tagged.

I also dont rate walker all that much, sure he looks good occassionally but he's hardly a gun.

On jack i worry about any defender that struggles to hold his feet, he has always had the issue keeping his feet as he turns. If he is to make it as a defender it'll only be a 3rd option, meaning he's probably comepting with harry, maxwell, etc and he doesnt have a case to oust them yet.

Like you last week invig, you know i don't blindly hate for hate sake, but in my mind jack is currently 4th KPD and a long way back. That doesnt mean trade or delist just my view of it.

Yeah that's all cool with me Opti and my beef in here certainly isn't with you (or Johnno_), at least you are constructive and logical in your criticisms. It's the dumbarses that see the need to continually write off players they dislike at the drop of a hat and then never face the music when they are proven wrong. For example the OP who has previously written off Wellingham, Jolly, Toovey, Dick and Beams, his hit list isn't great to say the least.

I just don't think he was anywhere near as bad as some are letting on, especially considering it was his first true AFL game down there and it probably wasn't the best week to be introduced to it considering how lax our midfield pressure was.

I still think he's got claims to make it as a KPD, a solid pre-season certainly won't go astray nor will being locked down in one role for a consistent stretch of time. I think Reid has come on in leaps and bounds since he started working with Hudghton (he certainly helped with his positioning and body work), considering JA would have been training up the other end for the majority of the year, I reckon a similar progression path wouldn't be unfathomable for him once he got some solid hours in with Maxy.

Just on that note, what's your thoughts on Reid these days in regards to being a KPD just out of curiosity Opti? You were always pretty adamant he'd only ever be a tall flanker/floating tall (which wasn't necessarily something I disagreed with), has anything changed in your opinion?

Anyways, I dare say it'll be a while before this one resolves itself, I think he'll be dividing fans for some time to come

 

[notorious_zhang]

Last year it was Leigh Brown and this year Anthony. The boy can play trust me just give him time.

Leigh Brown was pretty bad last year

 

[buck bundy]

He'll be a Sun next year anyway.

 

[Dawson]

He'll be a Sun next year anyway.

I have heard this from so many different sources, I'm starting to think there is something in it

 

[Jonno_]

Yeah that's all cool with me Opti and my beef in here certainly isn't with you (or Johnno_), at least you are constructive and logical in your criticisms. It's the dumbarses that see the need to continually write off players they dislike at the drop of a hat and then never face the music when they are proven wrong. For example the OP who has previously written off Wellingham, Jolly, Toovey, Dick and Beams, his hit list isn't great to say the least.

I just don't think he was anywhere near as bad as some are letting on, especially considering it was his first true AFL game down there and it probably wasn't the best week to be introduced to it considering how lax our midfield pressure was.

I still think he's got claims to make it as a KPD, a solid pre-season certainly won't go astray nor will being locked down in one role for a consistent stretch of time. I think Reid has come on in leaps and bounds since he started working with Hudghton (he certainly helped with his positioning and body work), considering JA would have been training up the other end for the majority of the year, I reckon a similar progression path wouldn't be unfathomable for him once he got some solid hours in with Maxy.

Just on that note, what's your thoughts on Reid these days in regards to being a KPD just out of curiosity Opti? You were always pretty adamant he'd only ever be a tall flanker/floating tall (which wasn't necessarily something I disagreed with), has anything changed in your opinion?

Anyways, I dare say it'll be a while before this one resolves itself, I think he'll be dividing fans for some time to come

I know you didn't ask me, but I said the same things I'm saying about Jack about Reid, and have been proven very very wrong. After his stuttering kick game, I never thought he'd make the cut.

The key is though, that Reid played an entire year in the VFL at CHB as an apprenticeship. Anthony has played about 8 games. If he is it to reinvent himself as a KPD he will need a fair while longer, and last night was probably too early to throw him in the deep end.

The other thing about Jack is that he seems to be very easily beaten mentally. There are games when he the chips don't fall his way and he seems to just give up. I know a lot of forwards have been towelled up by Brian Lake in the past, but those two games last year he didn't even try past Q1. He just gave up, and didn't even provide a contest. I don't have much evidence to back this up, but it's something I've thought for a long time about Jack. I think to be a KPD, you can't afford to give up like that.

I'm not writing him off as a player, but I think he is a long way from where he needs to be and needs to serve a lot longer apprenticeship if he is to make the grade in our backline at the moment.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I know you didn't ask me, but I said the same things I'm saying about Jack about Reid, and have been proven very very wrong. After his stuttering kick game, I never thought he'd make the cut.
.

The fact you were judging Reid's entire career off one nervous and comical kick doesnt fill me with confidence that you know much about Anthony either.

 

[Jonno_]

The fact you were judging Reid's entire career off one nervous and comical kick doesnt fill me with confidence that you know much about Anthony either.

Not a kick, a game. And the five or so he played before hand. He wasn't impressive. Failed to chase on a number of occasions against Carlton and his marking wasn't impressive. Neither was his kicking. In fact the only thing remarkably impressive about Reid's first few games was his physical attributes.

 

[Dicky_Knee]

What happened to Jack, one minute he's the next sharp shooter hardly missing the big stix and marking everything, and then the next year he's struggling to get a game and everyone is bagging him.

What did i miss?

 

[FIGJAM]

What happened to Jack, one minute he's the next sharp shooter hardly missing the big stix and marking everything, and then the next year he's struggling to get a game and everyone is bagging him.

What did i miss?

He had a shoulder injury preseason, missing much of the proper training required for a long season. His aerial ability has suffered as a result.

For mine, he should be being played as a defender, with the ability to go forward when required (ie. if the oppo goes short). He has played negligible time in defence in the AFL, yet unlike many others, he is expected to perform immediately. In terms of negating, he hasn't had a bag kicked on him in the big league, yet still gets smashed by fans every game.

For mine, I think it's unfair, but Jack polarises people, as I think he's a bit of a unique cat. There's a lot of subjective hypercriticism of the bloke.

Objectively speaking, we had two youngsters filling FB and CHB, who kept their men down to 2 goals (can credit the other one to Jolly), and it may well be that neither will be playing there in 2 weeks. Dunno why we are so upset about having some great prospects in positions that are integral to winning flags!

 

[Optimax]

Just on that note, what's your thoughts on Reid these days in regards to being a KPD just out of curiosity Opti? You were always pretty adamant he'd only ever be a tall flanker/floating tall (which wasn't necessarily something I disagreed with), has anything changed in your opinion?

Anyways, I dare say it'll be a while before this one resolves itself, I think he'll be dividing fans for some time to come

I'm very very happy with how he's come on this year, since the mid year break whether his decision or the coaches directive he's changed how he plays one on one instead of bodying up (ala Brisbane match where he was murdered) he has started giving himself room and utilizing his natural leap, speed and reach.

He is also a stronger boy then I gave him credit for, I always felt he'd be at worst solid floater but never big kpd, I'm quite happy for him to show me up on it. A chopper and Nate tandem for decade is looking very good