Cam Rayner

[KissKiss]

So when the ball is inside 50 he’s kicking goals and when he’s outside the F50 he’s one of the best 10 kicks in the comp

Bit of a surprise that. Not that Rayner is a bad kick but I personally would have thought that guys like McCluggage, Zorko and Neale would generally have been better deliverers of the ball inside 50 for the lions. I guess this demonstrates how the eye test is not always aligned with the stats.

 

[Whatamark]

I have felt for awhile that there was always an inherent inconsistency underneath Danster's whole argument.

On one hand, he claims stats prove one thing (that Cam Rayner is not that good). At the same time he is not using current stats to define his fav player as "Elite" but instead bases his status on past achievements instead - which is a vibe judgement.

On the other hand a vibe judgement of Cam Rayner he deems as inaccurate as his stats are not sufficient to justify an "Elite" or any other status. Despite any/some evidence provided to the contrary (eg. B&F, Coaches votes, MVP etc).

It would seem that Danster would like his cake and eat it as usual to make his nebulous point. Probably just on-going Salt that the Lions have gone past the Dee's over the last few seasons. If you are going to argue a position at least make it consistent.

 

[paulige]

It would seem that Danster would like his cake and eat it as usual to make his nebulous point. Probably just on-going Salt that the Lions have gone past the Dee's over the last few seasons. If you are going to argue a position at least make it consistent.

Daniel quite ironically chastises Cam for his lack of consistency.

“… when you see a bad man, search yourself for his faults.” - Confucius

 

[Junction Lion]

Its actually pretty similar to yours so not all that much fun

You are going back to the 80’s looking at pure stats. Clueless. You are comparing Rayner’s hard fought ball and a couple of fend offs and a 50 metre goal to an easy one out the back. Both = 1 goal

 

[danster168]

You are going back to the 80’s looking at pure stats. Clueless. You are comparing Rayner’s hard fought ball and a couple of fend offs and a 50 metre goal to an easy one out the back. Both = 1 goal

Not at all. I use the eye test. Then use stats to confirm what I see. I haven't even referred to Rayners game on the weekend so what are you talking about? I acknowledged he played a good game. But you're kidding yourself if you think that a good game or even 4 good games erases 6 years of being barely afl calibre. I think if he wasn't the number 1 pick he would've been in and out of the team the last 5 years.

 

[paulige]

Not at all. I use the eye test. Then use stats to confirm what I see. I haven't even referred to Rayners game on the weekend so what are you talking about? I acknowledged he played a good game. But you're kidding yourself if you think that a good game or even 4 good games erases 6 years of being barely afl calibre. I think if he wasn't the number 1 pick he would've been in and out of the team the last 5 years.

“6 years of barely AFL calibre” - finished 5th in the BnF last year. This does not compute.

You can “think” all you want, it doesn’t make it any less detached from reality.

 

[danster168]

“6 years of barely AFL calibre” - finished 5th in the BnF last year. This does not compute.

You can “think” all you want, it doesn’t make it any less detached from reality.

Must be an in-house role that he's playing that only Fages knows about. Like a defensive forward or something.

 

[Junction Lion]

Not at all. I use the eye test. Then use stats to confirm what I see. I haven't even referred to Rayners game on the weekend so what are you talking about? I acknowledged he played a good game. But you're kidding yourself if you think that a good game or even 4 good games erases 6 years of being barely afl calibre. I think if he wasn't the number 1 pick he would've been in and out of the team the last 5 years.

You know what I am talking about? The things that don’t hit the stats sheet in a footy game. Don’t be naive. Surely you’ve played a lot of footy the way you go on.

 

[paulige]

Must be an in-house role that he's playing that only Fages knows about. Like a defensive forward or something.

I appreciate that you have acknowledged he’s doing valuable things you are completely unaware of.

 

[danster168]

I appreciate that you have acknowledged he’s doing valuable things you are completely unaware of.

you realise half your fan base wanted him dropped twice this year? End of Round 9 and end of round 11? I'll repeat what your fellow posters said:

“I don't think we can continue to play Cam or retain him on the list if he isn't playing as the third tall and/ or given significant midfield time”

“Cam Rayner the sub”

“I agree with you. If Rayner was plonked in the twos for the rest of the season, we would certainly not be left wondering if he had the drive/hunger to take it to the next level. Would be an interesting experiment, and could be the catalyst to give us some return on the club's investment in him.”

“I'm going nuclear and putting Rayner in the 2's for a few weeks and telling him to bust his gut running around.”

“Personally I think Rayner's game against Melbourne has been overrated, both here and in the media. People have been waiting 6 years for a break out game from a #1 pick and jumped on the smallest glimpse.”

“I just cannot see a role for Rayner in the near future.”

“Time to drop Rayner. Offers absolutely nothing and has been the worst on ground”

“McCluggage and Rayner. Two blokes who you thought would take us to the next level. Both seem to have regressed let alone stagnated”

“Any of Bruce, Answerth, Rayner or Ah Chee could work as subs”

“I really think we need to trade Rayner. I’ve always hated the player that is labelled ‘mercurial’. 1 good game so far this season. Enough!”

“Genuinely perplexed Rayner continues to get a game, I’m putting it down to the fact we have no one else that could step up for him.”

 

[Junction Lion]

I appreciate that you have acknowledged he’s doing valuable things you are completely unaware

I appreciate that you have acknowledged he’s doing valuable things you are completely unaware of.

Tough to deal with this Danster guy. He compares a Fritsch stat with a Rayner stat. That is a simpleton approach and is probably why he is the only person defending himself.

 

[paulige]

you realise half your fan base wanted him dropped twice this year? End of Round 9 and end of round 11? I'll repeat what your fellow posters said:

“I don't think we can continue to play Cam or retain him on the list if he isn't playing as the third tall and/ or given significant midfield time”

“Cam Rayner the sub”

“I agree with you. If Rayner was plonked in the twos for the rest of the season, we would certainly not be left wondering if he had the drive/hunger to take it to the next level. Would be an interesting experiment, and could be the catalyst to give us some return on the club's investment in him.”

“I'm going nuclear and putting Rayner in the 2's for a few weeks and telling him to bust his gut running around.”

“Personally I think Rayner's game against Melbourne has been overrated, both here and in the media. People have been waiting 6 years for a break out game from a #1 pick and jumped on the smallest glimpse.”

“I just cannot see a role for Rayner in the near future.”

“Time to drop Rayner. Offers absolutely nothing and has been the worst on ground”

“McCluggage and Rayner. Two blokes who you thought would take us to the next level. Both seem to have regressed let alone stagnated”

“Any of Bruce, Answerth, Rayner or Ah Chee could work as subs”

“I really think we need to trade Rayner. I’ve always hated the player that is labelled ‘mercurial’. 1 good game so far this season. Enough!”

“Genuinely perplexed Rayner continues to get a game, I’m putting it down to the fact we have no one else that could step up for him.”

What relevance does this have regarding my own evaluations of Cam as a player and his future potential?

"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them knows anything about the subject."

 

[danster168]

What relevance does this have regarding my own evaluations of Cam as a player and his future potential?

"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them knows anything about the subject."

because you make it sound as if my opinions are isolated when in reality even Brisbane fans acknowledge that he hasn't been afl calibre several times this year.

 

[Junction Lion]

you realise half your fan base wanted him dropped twice this year? End of Round 9 and end of round 11? I'll repeat what your fellow posters said:

“I don't think we can continue to play Cam or retain him on the list if he isn't playing as the third tall and/ or given significant midfield time”

“Cam Rayner the sub”

“I agree with you. If Rayner was plonked in the twos for the rest of the season, we would certainly not be left wondering if he had the drive/hunger to take it to the next level. Would be an interesting experiment, and could be the catalyst to give us some return on the club's investment in him.”

“I'm going nuclear and putting Rayner in the 2's for a few weeks and telling him to bust his gut running around.”

“Personally I think Rayner's game against Melbourne has been overrated, both here and in the media. People have been waiting 6 years for a break out game from a #1 pick and jumped on the smallest glimpse.”

“I just cannot see a role for Rayner in the near future.”

“Time to drop Rayner. Offers absolutely nothing and has been the worst on ground”

“McCluggage and Rayner. Two blokes who you thought would take us to the next level. Both seem to have regressed let alone stagnated”

“Any of Bruce, Answerth, Rayner or Ah Chee could work as subs”

“I really think we need to trade Rayner. I’ve always hated the player that is labelled ‘mercurial’. 1 good game so far this season. Enough!”

“Genuinely perplexed Rayner continues to get a game, I’m putting it down to the fact we have no one else that could step up for him.”

Half our fan base is now a few posters on Big Footy. FFS. This is ridiculous. I am going to give myself an uppercut for reading this crap

 

[danster168]

Half our fan base is now a few posters on Big Footy. FFS. This is ridiculous. I am going to give myself an uppercut for reading this crap

it's not a few. I showed you about 10. and yes 10 bigfooty supporters who are usually passionate, knowledgeable footy fans. You realise you are also a bigfooty poster.

 

[paulige]

because you make it sound as if my opinions are isolated when in reality even Brisbane fans acknowledge that he hasn't been afl calibre several times this year.

Your opinions aren’t isolated, but no opinion is. It doesn’t make them any less obsessive or extreme, either.

There is quite clearly nothing that will change your mind - you have no intention of acknowledging the value Rayner adds to his team. In 2023 he was considered the 5th most valuable player in a team that was a coin-flip away from a premiership. Yet you spent all of that year slagging him off, calling him a spud, and questioning his effort.

In 2024, I’d wager that he’s tracking even better in the BnF, in a side once again looking to threaten for a premiership. And your tune hasn’t changed in the slightest.

I have whittled it down to 3 options. You are either:

• being a troll
• blinded by hatred
• or genuinely believe you know more, and are a better judge of talent and impact, than an entire club of professionals

If it’s the first - well played. If it’s the second - I’m sorry. If it’s the third - really? Pause and think about that for a moment.

Would I pay pick 1 on the open market, based on exposed form? Of course not - but his value is far more than the pick 34 or whatever it is you’re spruiking.

I (and many others) will continue to enjoy watching him play. He’s only 24 - his consistency is improving all the time. At last he is settling into a role that allows him to play to his strengths, and has just strung together the strongest 7-game patch of his career - including one stark reminder of his BOG-capability.

I believe he’s just getting started, and there is plenty more to come - I have nothing more to add.

 

[danster168]

Your opinions aren’t isolated, but no opinion is. It doesn’t make them any less obsessive or extreme, either.

There is quite clearly nothing that will change your mind - you have no intention of acknowledging the value Rayner adds to his team. In 2023 he was considered the 5th most valuable player in a team that was a coin-flip away from a premiership. Yet you spent all of that year slagging him off, calling him a spud, and questioning his effort.

In 2024, I’d wager that he’s tracking even better in the BnF, in a side once again looking to threaten for a premiership. And your tune hasn’t changed in the slightest.

I have whittled it down to 3 options. You are either:

• being a troll
• blinded by hatred
• or genuinely believe you know more, and are a better judge of talent and impact, than an entire club of professionals

If it’s the first - well played. If it’s the second - I’m sorry. If it’s the third - really? Pause and think about that for a moment.

Would I pay pick 1 on the open market, based on exposed form? Of course not - but his value is far more than the pick 34 or whatever it is you’re spruiking.

I (and many others) will continue to enjoy watching him play. He’s only 24 - his consistency is improving all the time. At last he is settling into a role that allows him to play to his strengths, and has just strung together the strongest 7-game patch of his career - including one stark reminder of his BOG-capability.

I believe he’s just getting started, and there is plenty more to come - I have nothing more to add.

it's not spruiking .2017 was an incredibly good draft. incredibly good. There's 20 guys that have previously or are currently in AA conversations, a bunch of guys that are probably worth about 800k+. You can definitely make a case for Rayner to be at 34. But there is no sound argument for Rayner to be anywhere near the top 20 unless it's out of pure bias.

You may be right, he may be just getting started. And that's my point. Many others in the 2017 draft have already arrived and produced. Some for many years.

 

[iBeng]

2 goals so far, are we in agreement he needs to go 30 touches and 6 goals today to be relevant?

 

[Miluxx]

2 goals so far, are we in agreement he needs to go 30 touches and 6 goals today to be relevant?

Not to mention the forward pressure that got Bailey his goal.

 

[KissKiss]

2 goals and 2 goal assists off 12 disposals is a pretty good half. Been some impressive consistent form from Rayner now

 

[Miluxx]

2 goals and 2 goal assists off 12 disposals is a pretty good half. Been some impressive consistent form from Rayner now

I'd definitely be happy if he kept this form up for the rest of the year. Sorry I accept mediocrity Dannyboy.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

37 goals + goal assists in 18.5 games to half time here has Cameron Rayner

16

Cameron Rayner

Age

26

Ht

187cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

11.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.5

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.8

4star

. Nice little milestone to hit the 2 G + GA per match mark for a mid-forward.

But in the last 5.5 matches CR has 21 goals + assists. That is over 3.8 per game and danster168 will be tossing and turning at night worrying that Rayner has found a new level here now that he has his role sorted out better, because that is right up there with the best in the AFL.

Meanwhile in his last 7 matches, Danster's girlhood idol Barely Avfritsch has 15 goals + assists @ 2.1 per match, barely over half the current trend scoreboard impact of Cam Rayner. It looks like Rayner has gone straight past Fritsch in Fritsch's 1 wood - scoreboard impact - meanwhile maintaining much higher disposals, contested possession, tackle and pressure act levels.

I feel Danster is about to fold and admit Rayner is rocketing towards the top 10 most valuable players from the 2017 draft.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Old Mate has probably smashed his computer by now…

 

[SSSSSS]

Rayner > Fritsch

 

[Toffee Lion]

Rayner > Fritsch

I think there is only one man on this forum who’d debate this.