Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[FredLeDeux]

Would have thought they took him in because his form at the time warranted the selection....
The experience he gains from it is just a bonus for us long term I think

Well, his form didn't justify his selection, that's for sure.

thought they played Rupert because we lacked some speed in the back half?
No Varcoe or Wojak to give us some run

I suspect that was the justification for his selection despite his poor recent performance at that time.

 

[Pivo]

I agree.

I see what you did there.

 

[Partridge]

thought they played Rupert because we lacked some speed in the back half?
No Varcoe or Wojak to give us some run

Maybe. Anyway it showed that pace isn't the magic bullet to solve all problems in the backline. A calm head and solid defensive skills are way more important.

 

[bulletproof]

Murdoch made excellent contributions in tight games against West Coast and St Kilda late in the year. Yes, he had a shocker against the Swans and should have been dropped for Wojack but his form was not terrible.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Some people are going to be surprised when Cam plays lots of games thi syear. Can't believe the pessismism - go watch last year's game v the Bombers to see what this kid is capable of.

 

[Partridge]

Some people are going to be surprised when Cam plays lots of games thi syear. Can't believe the pessismism - go watch last year's game v the Bombers to see what this kid is capable of.

It's because he doesn't possess the requirements that young players apparently have to possess if they're any hope of succeeding now:

1. Pace.
2. X-factor.
3. Wizardry.
4. Pace.
5. Pace.

Possessing a very good temperament, cool decision making, discipline (i.e. ability to actually stand next to an opponent), and having clean disposal doesn't rank nearly as highly, or generate any hype. But, to repeat it once more I strongly suggest Chris Scott rates all of those things very, very highly.

 

[footscore]

Maybe. Anyway it showed that pace isn't the magic bullet to solve all problems in the backline. A calm head and solid defensive skills are way more important.

sure it is
Collingwood lost Leon Davis who was incredibly pivotal to their game style and run from the back half, they have an injury-prone Johnson who was to fill that void but is well past his best these days.

We lost Varcoe and Wojcinski and had to rely on a 3rd gamer to bridge the gap, one speedy ball carrier is crucial in any game, just ask Carlton why.

 

[Partridge]

sure it is
Collingwood lost Leon Davis who was incredibly pivotal to their game style and run from the back half, they have an injury-prone Johnson who was to fill that void but is well past his best these days.

We lost Varcoe and Wojcinski and had to rely on a 3rd gamer to bridge the gap, one speedy ball carrier is crucial in any game, just ask Carlton why.

Varcoe's never been a defender. Ever. Running through the backline to assist is very, very different to actually having to mind an opponent. And truth be told Wocjinski's big flaw was his tendency to lose opponents, and that cost us goals at times. Not an ideal attribute.

 

[footscore]

Varcoe's never been a defender. Ever. Running through the backline to assist is very, very different to actually having to mind an opponent.

yes I understand he has never been a defender (Hunt/Enright/Wojcinski-like) but at the same time, game has evolved in the past 3-5 years where there is not necessarily any designated forward pocket/full forward specialist either so while you can say he's only assisted, he's just as important as any of the other smaller defenders as Guthrie will be the lock down type who will always look for Varcoe in order to generate the run away from the danger zone just as Taylor or Rivers will try and link up with TV to see the ball away from defensive 50.

And truth be told Wocjinski's big flaw was his tendency to lose opponents, and that cost us goals at times. Not an ideal attribute.

Wojak may have cost us goals at times but he doesn't receive the credit for what he did offensively, Scarlett and Wojcinski were constantly the barometer for most of our scoring onslaughts and it seems very much the same case with Varcoe.
Although they will not effectively go on the stat sheet for goal assists, if not for these types, we fall back again just as we saw in 2012.

 

[vinum coupe]

Yeah he was.
Varcoe provided massive forward defence in 07 before he ran out of legs. Massive.

Yeah ok, maybe I'm using license on the term 'defender'.

 

[David the Cat]

It's because he doesn't possess the requirements that young players apparently have to possess if they're any hope of succeeding now:

1. Pace.
2. X-factor.
3. Wizardry.
4. Pace.
5. Pace.

Possessing a very good temperament, cool decision making, discipline (i.e. ability to actually stand next to an opponent), and having clean disposal doesn't rank nearly as highly, or generate any hype. But, to repeat it once more I strongly suggest Chris Scott rates all of those things very, very highly.

100% agree....I put quality disposal (particularly by foot)...at the top of my list and Guthrie has that....

To suggest that Guthrie has no pace is a fallacy though. Not as quick as Motlop, Varcoe, Murdoch etc....but he's no slow coach.

 

[vinum coupe]

There is no way he is slow DTC.
He'd be a shit load quicker than Bartel for example

 

[David the Cat]

Uhmmmm...VC? Time for an Avatar change?

It just isn't you.....

 

[Cursed Cat]

Guthrie has toe, mongrel, sticky fingers and a cool head, which is also good and on his shoulders.

 

[DanA]

I reckon he will be a good solid clubman. Reckon he'll ha e a career somewhere between David Johnson and Enright. That is to say I have no idea but he'll be at the least solid.

 

[dazbroncos]

Dasher Milburn wasn't fast... or racking up 300 Sc points, or very ziggy and zaggy with his slick tricks.

But we got a near 300 game legend of the club who played for the club - did the little things - whacked a few blokes and occasionally had me screaming WTF DASH at the TV at 3 in the morning.....

He turned out ok. So will Guthrie. Let him do his thing and he'll be fine... I don't want him flashy and shiny. I want him hard, well disposed and doing his gig.

Go Catters

 

[Claude Balls]

Would like to see him find a bit more of the gonad. I know he's playing a role, and doing it extremely well given his experience, but I do want to see at some point in the next 10 games that he is capable of racking up 20 + touches.

 

[Partridge]

Would like to see him find a bit more of the gonad. I know he's playing a role, and doing it extremely well given his experience, but I do want to see at some point in the next 10 games that he is capable of racking up 20 + touches.

Good point Mr.Balls, but my guess is he's probably been told to focus on becoming a good stopper first, then start providing more rebound as he gains experience. Makes sense.

 

[Partridge]

Dasher Milburn wasn't fast... or racking up 300 Sc points, or very ziggy and zaggy with his slick tricks.

But we got a near 300 game legend of the club who played for the club - did the little things - whacked a few blokes and occasionally had me screaming WTF DASH at the TV at 3 in the morning.....

He turned out ok. So will Guthrie. Let him do his thing and he'll be fine... I don't want him flashy and shiny. I want him hard, well disposed and doing his gig.

Go Catters

Exactly. Neither was Enright. Or Bartel. Or Kelly. Or Ling. Actually I'm sure our "one-paced midfield" was a topic of much discussion around 2006.

Don't think it's a concern.

 

[footscore]

Exactly. Neither was Enright. Or Bartel. Or Kelly. Or Ling. Actually I'm sure our "one-paced midfield" was a topic of much discussion around 2006.

Don't think it's a concern.

Kelly didn't play permanent midfield pre 2007, our midfield was Ablett, Spriggs, Moloney, Tenace, Corey, Ling and Bartel and then from about 2005 onwards it became Bartel, Ablett, Corey, Ling, Kelly and Selwood and Corey was obviously quicker at 24 than he is today.

We have always had one or two explosive line breakers in the middle whereas 2012, we obviously missed that type of player due to the loss of Ablett but recruiting Caddy and additional pace injected from Hunt, Duncan and Christensen....we are building an extremely strong midfield once again.

 

[meto]

Re Guthrie,
Do any of you really know how fast he can run 50mtrs compared to Varcoe, Motlop or Murdoch?
Personally I don't.
And if you don't, why do you make statements as if you do???
Looks to me he goes alright.

 

[Daitro]

I don't think anyone has actually said Guthrie was too slow in this thread. Partridge offered it up as a bit of a straw-man in post 131 and people have just gone on with it. "Oh these fictional people who think Guthrie should be out of the team because he has no pace are sooo wrong!"

 

[meto]

I don't think anyone has actually said Guthrie was too slow in this thread. Partridge offered it up as a bit of a straw-man in post 131 and people have just gone on with it. "Oh these fictional people who think Guthrie should be out of the team because he has no pace are sooo wrong!"

Fictional thinking in my opinion, but then what would I know you might say.

Claim was made that he isn't particularly quick....is that right?...you tell me!

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

Guthrie won't be a start up for round 1 so h will now be on the back foot , this was his chance with j Hunt out

 

[bulletproof]

I don't think anyone has actually said Guthrie was too slow in this thread. Partridge offered it up as a bit of a straw-man in post 131 and people have just gone on with it. "Oh these fictional people who think Guthrie should be out of the team because he has no pace are sooo wrong!"

Ha, good point. I actually think he is quick.

I also liked the way the argument has been framed that there are those that appreciate players who develop slowly and have good composure (Guthrie fans) and those that just don't understand the game and want a cheap dirty thrill with the raw speed of Motlop and Smedts (Guthrie doubters).

I would be delighted if we found a great defensive back pocket, Hunt has actually been a fine player for Geelong but he is over 30 now. He got torched by Milne and others occasionally but also played some great games under pressure. If Guthrie has a good as career as Hunt he will be a favourite of mine. He won't end up as good as Enright because he is a once a generation player and would be in the best Geelong team of all time if it was being picked today.