Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[footscore]

If Guthrie has a good as career as Hunt he will be a favourite of mine. He won't end up as good as Enright because he is a once a generation player and would be in the best Geelong team of all time if it was being picked today.

good post mate.
To have both Scarlett and Enright at the same time has been truly sensational!

Wonder what would have become of him (Boris) if he was groomed for midfield and nothing more
I can't ever remember seeing him go to ground or butcher the ball as often as many other players in the league.
Would have succeeded in any position most likely.

 

[cynical]

Guthrie shouldn't be in the team yet because he simply is not best 22.

I would hope the match committee decide to put Varcoe in the back half so we get a bit more run and carry.

The backline as a whole is old and slow so it needs a line breaker otherwise we become too predictable coming out of defense.

Wojo wasn't a great defender but his ability to break lines was fantastic, the fact that he could do this made us less predictable and made opposition have to counter this. They couldn't just have a heavy zone because wojo could get past the first 20m and kick 55.

You don't need to have pace to be a good player but when it comes to team balance you certainly need some players with pace across each line.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re Guthrie,
Do any of you really know how fast he can run 50mtrs compared to Varcoe, Motlop or Murdoch?
Personally I don't.
And if you don't, why do you make statements as if you do???
Looks to me he goes alright.

Can you quote for me one those statements?

 

[Claude Balls]

Good point Mr.Balls, but my guess is he's probably been told to focus on becoming a good stopper first, then start providing more rebound as he gains experience. Makes sense.

You're most likely (hopefully) right.

Just another thing, given you implied Guthrie doesn't have pace (unless you were just using that to illustrate your point about the masses' fawning of flashy types). I reckon he does. My naked eye (unlidded) tells me so. Whether it's off the mark or simply top line I'm not sure, but I have no doubt he is capable of conveying himself with considerable alacrity when the need arises.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

To me at least, he looks like clearly the quickest of Geelong's permanent defenders. Then there's this:

Starred at the AFL Draft Combine, showing spectacular marking and kicking skills as well as a good turn of speed.

As for getting more run-and-carry in the backline, I think it's much more important to have someone who can actually stop his direct opponent. If Varcoe is going to play in the backline, it should be as a loose man, otherwise he's wasted. Mackie is a line-breaker. Rivers has also shown good rebounding skills. J.Hunt is obviously able to break lines. Taylor, Enright and Guthrie are all very good users of the ball and Lonergan is showing improvement in this regard.

This whole discussion comes down to whom we would like to stand Breust in Round 1. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one answer.

 

[meto]

I believe his awareness of opposition players is particularly good when rebounding the ball and at least has the speed to create run and carry in tight defensive positions.
You've got to have quality accelleration to occupy that role one would imagine.

 

[Partridge]

I don't think anyone has actually said Guthrie was too slow in this thread. Partridge offered it up as a bit of a straw-man in post 131 and people have just gone on with it. "Oh these fictional people who think Guthrie should be out of the team because he has no pace are sooo wrong!"

No the point was others have offered up Varcoe or Murdoch as apparently we need extreme pace in the backline, instead of a defender who can actually defend. Again, it's clear the ball quickly from defence v make sure you actually get the ball out of defence. I much prefer the second option.

And that's exactly the point; Guthrie isn't slow at all. He may not be as quick as Varcoe or others, but he's more than quick enough.

 

[Partridge]

Guthrie shouldn't be in the team yet because he simply is not best 22.

I would hope the match committee decide to put Varcoe in the back half so we get a bit more run and carry.

The backline as a whole is old and slow so it needs a line breaker otherwise we become too predictable coming out of defense.

Wojo wasn't a great defender but his ability to break lines was fantastic, the fact that he could do this made us less predictable and made opposition have to counter this. They couldn't just have a heavy zone because wojo could get past the first 20m and kick 55.

You don't need to have pace to be a good player but when it comes to team balance you certainly need some players with pace across each line.

You said the backline is old and slow, and the solution is to leave out the 20 year old?

 

[Whopper32]

As I have called many times at games..."good old dependable Milburn". He was replaced by "good old dependable Enright." Who will in time be replaced by "good old dependable Guthrie."

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I absolutely loved Wojo but there is no doubt he could be lax and also give away senseless free kicks - he could also tantalise and delight with his ability to break lines and accelerate to insane speeds.
Josh Hunt has many attractive attributes as well but , at times , he can disappoint.
Guthrie is a kid FFS , playing in the most unforgiving position on the field. He shows poise, great decision making and very effective disposal - awesome credentials and I'll also venture that he looks an intelligent player who will study his weaknesses and work on them.
He's an absolute keeper in my mind and we need to keep giving him the opportunity and celebrate what he does with the faith we show in him.

 

[meto]

If any of our younger group displays all the determination and discipline required from a back 6 player Guthrie does IMO.
Of course he's been serving his apprenticeship but he's about halfway through, 2013 he'll step up I believe.

 

[Seeds]

You said the backline is old and slow, and the solution is to leave out the 20 year old?

Yeah the slow one.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah the slow one.

Put him in a foot race against Mackie, Taylor, Lonergan, Enright and Rivers, then tell me which one is the "slow" one. Actually you can include that youthful option Josh Hunt in that too.

 

[Partridge]

As I have called many times at games..."good old dependable Milburn". He was replaced by "good old dependable Enright." Who will in time be replaced by "good old dependable Guthrie."

I suspect it will. And most fans - certainly no opposition fans nor the media - will notice it either.

 

[you pick one]

This one's a better chance than Gillies but the spot is still up for grabs and plenty of candidates,It's not a done deal.

 

[year of the cat]

We have to get games into Guthrie as part of our ongoing preparation for life without Enright, J.Hunt, Milburn and even Mackie. It's no use just having this guy sitting in the VFL having his development stalled when we have the perfect opportunity now to give him the requisite experience to replace the aforementioned players. Aside from anything else, Guthrie has the form to warrant senior game time anyway.

 

[Partridge]

We have to get games into Guthrie as part of our ongoing preparation for life without Enright, J.Hunt, Milburn and even Mackie. It's no use just having this guy sitting in the VFL having his development stalled when we have the perfect opportunity now to give him the requisite experience to replace the aforementioned players. Aside from anything else, Guthrie has the form to warrant senior game time anyway.

That's exactly it. Otherwise no senior players will ever get dropped, even when they're past it (we came nearly to that point with Mooney in 2011 and unfortunately did last year with Scarlett).

Players who are the wrong side of 30 and - very importantly - clearly in decline should not be guaranteed a game ahead of youngsters doing everything right. Not if the club is serious about improving. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out either.

 

[year of the cat]

That's exactly it. Otherwise no senior players will ever get dropped, even when they're past it (we came nearly to that point with Mooney in 2011 and unfortunately did last year with Scarlett).

Players who are the wrong side of 30 and - very importantly - clearly in decline should not be guaranteed a game ahead of youngsters doing everything right. Not if the club is serious about improving. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out either.

Absolutely. Same goes with J.Corey. Unless his form this year is significantly better than in 2012 I'd be playing the likes of Horlin-Smith and Caddy in front of him now. Next week when Kelly and SJ are available will be telling I reckon. I'll be pissed if the youngsters are punted back to the VFL if they have solid games in the AFL against the hawks.

 

[Selwood_14]

Yeah the slow one.

Footscore's vid in post #20 of this thread, fast forward to the 2:38 mark and Guthrie seems to have pretty good speed through the middle

 

[Partridge]

Footscore's vid in post #20 of this thread, fast forward to the 2:38 mark and Guthrie seems to have pretty good speed through the middle

Unfortunately some have become so fixated on the idea of needing - not just having, but absolutely needing - extreme pace in the backline, that they're blind to everything else.

Still can't see what the fuss is all about. Guthrie and Enright will be the two small defenders very much required against Hawthorn. At the same time, I've got no doubt at all that Varcoe and others will be zooming in and out of there frequently to help out. The defensive six are not going to suddenly resemble lumbering cave trolls if Varcoe doesn't line up on a half back flank.

Besides which, you can't break away from the backline if you don't have the ball in the first place.

 

[Partridge]

Absolutely. Same goes with J.Corey. Unless his form this year is significantly better than in 2012 I'd be playing the likes of Horlin-Smith and Caddy in front of him now. Next week when Kelly and SJ are available will be telling I reckon. I'll be pissed if the youngsters are punted back to the VFL if they have solid games in the AFL against the hawks.

Yep, Round 2 in particular will be the litmus test. Especially if (as I'm hoping) Horlin-Smith and Caddy make good contributions against Hawthorn.

Time doesn't stand still. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend it's 2009. If you do, it will get worse and we could lose games (as we did last year), or you can make the tough call and push Horlin-Smith and Caddy instead. It's not a difficult decision for the future of the club.

 

[Selwood_14]

Unfortunately some have become so fixated on the idea of needing - not just having, but absolutely needing - extreme pace in the backline, that they're blind to everything else.

Still can't see what the fuss is all about. Guthrie and Enright will be the two small defenders very much required against Hawthorn. At the same time, I've got no doubt at all that Varcoe and others will be zooming in and out of there frequently to help out. The defensive six are not going to suddenly resemble lumbering cave trolls if Varcoe doesn't line up on a half back flank.

Besides which, you can't break away from the backline if you don't have the ball in the first place.

I think people are getting football and netball confused, this sentence is spot on:

"At the same time, I've got no doubt at all that Varcoe and others will be zooming in and out of there frequently to help out."

I'll be a bit worried if our backline is isolated more than a couple of times per game and there is no-one from the midfield following the ball movement down there

 

[year of the cat]

Yep, Round 2 in particular will be the litmus test. Especially if (as I'm hoping) Horlin-Smith and Caddy make good contributions against Hawthorn.

Time doesn't stand still. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend it's 2009. If you do, it will get worse and we could lose games (as we did last year), or you can make the tough call and push Horlin-Smith and Caddy instead. It's not a difficult decision for the future of the club.

That's the thing isn't it? The decision to play the kids is almost a no-brainer. Unless they are out of form and don't warrant a game (even I don't want them necessarily gifted games), then get as many into them as possible. You also get the benefit of sifting out the wheat from the chaff. If they don't show the signs of being able to adapt to AFL or don't show signs of being able to improve to AFL standard over a few seasons then get rid of them. But, as you say, to just allow our team to gradually decline is just misguided.

By the way, with a couple of exceptions, I reckon the club has been pretty good up to now in this area. We had something like 10 debutants last year. They showed faith in playing Murdoch in the first final.

 

[Seeds]

Footscore's vid in post #20 of this thread, fast forward to the 2:38 mark and Guthrie seems to have pretty good speed through the middle

Not compared to T.Hunt, Varcoe and Murdoch he doesn't. That is who he is fighting with for the last defensive spot as Mackie, Lonergan, Rivers, Taylor and Enright are all locks.

 

[Seeds]

Unfortunately some have become so fixated on the idea of needing - not just having, but absolutely needing - extreme pace in the backline, that they're blind to everything else.

Still can't see what the fuss is all about. Guthrie and Enright will be the two small defenders very much required against Hawthorn. At the same time, I've got no doubt at all that Varcoe and others will be zooming in and out of there frequently to help out. The defensive six are not going to suddenly resemble lumbering cave trolls if Varcoe doesn't line up on a half back flank.

Besides which, you can't break away from the backline if you don't have the ball in the first place.

Games changed man. You need pace in defence as one way to break through the presses.