Not a lock for either Rd 1 or season for me. Better than 50% chance of starting Rd 1 but has competition in Varcoe and one of the mids , long term it's J. Hunts spot though IMO.
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Opinion Cameron Guthrie
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I meant in the context if thus season. As in once Hunt recovers from Glandular fever.
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Guthrie's on about 20 games or so at the moment. If he continues to develop he could be on 40 games or more by the start of next season. Duncan and Taylor Hunt are showing already how important just getting to that many games is in a player's development. Putting Josh Hunt in ahead of Guthrie is only going to delay that.
Unless Guthrie's senior form is horrible, that's a different story. But as long as he does his job, I can't see him being pushed out.
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In a season where I believe we'll be a Premiership contender. I think the better player will generally be selection. I'm of the opinion that's Josh Hunt. Not to say Guthrie won't get games, he could very well play the vast majority of games with injuries or if his form exceeds my expectations.
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Let's not forget that both Hunt and Guthrie played 18 games last year.
Even if Hunt gets the starting 18 spot I won't be surprised to see Guthrie rotate through both the backline and the middle this year.
Guthrie is another possibility to play that tagging midfield role if T.Hunt is injured or playing elsewhere. He has a defensive mindset that few kids his age have. Just a question of how much of his own ball he can get which is what made Ling such a great player.
I think Guthrie will play semi regularly but I doubt he will rotate through the midfield and I think it's much tougher to get a spot this season. Those last 5 spots will be hard fought for. Rivers, Varcoe, Caddy, Horlin-Smith, Menzel etc will all be looking to fit in to a side that's only lost Scarlett.
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Scott has already said that they want Guthrie to get more of the ball and that they'll probably move him up through the middle so that he can achieve it.
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When those of us who generally spruik the younger players over the old say that it's important to get as many games into kids as fast as possible, it goes without saying that if a premiership is on the line, the best possible candidate should be selected, be they 14 or 52.
E.g. Partridge saying Guthrie should be prioritised over J. Hunt. Obviously Hunt will get the gig if he demonstrates that age is not yet catching up with him, and Guthrie hasn't come on in 2013 how we expected. But Guthrie is 20 and talented, and Hunt is 31...
E.g. Partridge saying Guthrie should be prioritised over J. Hunt. Obviously Hunt will get the gig if he demonstrates that age is not yet catching up with him, and Guthrie hasn't come on in 2013 how we expected. But Guthrie is 20 and talented, and Hunt is 31...
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Spot on. Well said.
I've said it before, if the veteran is clearly on the slide however (and most fans would be unwilling to face it), the club must do the right thing for the future. Not the feelings of one player.
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it's a tough one isn't it, I'm on record as saying Corey needs to play in midfield even if he's slowed down these days as the coverage he will provide for the newbies is going to be very important.
Ling was terrific in doing similar for the young brigade of Ablett and Selwood in particular but when it comes to the backline, there is really no such luxury as they are more often than not exposed and hung out to dry so Guthrie has obviously done alright thus far as he hasn't been embarrassed by a small forward which has brought about an out cry from posters in here.
I don't see Hunt playing that much better than Guthrie as of right now when both are healthy, perhaps for brutal strength then Hunt is obviously a clear winner but it's terrific we are discussing this as I'm sure it would be a very different case for half of the teams in the competition.
(am sure the MC have a completely different view to basically all of us when it comes to Hunt & Guthrie)
Ling was terrific in doing similar for the young brigade of Ablett and Selwood in particular but when it comes to the backline, there is really no such luxury as they are more often than not exposed and hung out to dry so Guthrie has obviously done alright thus far as he hasn't been embarrassed by a small forward which has brought about an out cry from posters in here.
I don't see Hunt playing that much better than Guthrie as of right now when both are healthy, perhaps for brutal strength then Hunt is obviously a clear winner but it's terrific we are discussing this as I'm sure it would be a very different case for half of the teams in the competition.
(am sure the MC have a completely different view to basically all of us when it comes to Hunt & Guthrie)
I have no problem with opinions different to mine, I can understand those that have Guthrie ahead. I will say though it's not so much Hunt's strength which I think we miss, it's his left boot. Such a weapon to have setting up the play. Something Guthrie will never be able to match (few if any in the league can).
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Hunt's kicking has always been his greatest asset but did you also know that Guthrie is one of the biggest kicks at the club?
I believe he is right up there in terms of matching it with Hunt which is surprising to say the least.
If you get a chance and head to the game RD1 (if he is playing of course), keep an eye on Guthrie practice some shots from the 50...he hits it so sweetly and they seem to sail through fairly easily.
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Very true Dan.....Hunt's long kicking will be missed.
But give me Guthrie's 25-30 metre bullet pass before Josh's any day. When Josh goes for the short kick out I close my eyes and pray. I don't do that with Guthrie.
But give me Guthrie's 25-30 metre bullet pass before Josh's any day. When Josh goes for the short kick out I close my eyes and pray. I don't do that with Guthrie.
Josh Hunts kicking effeciency in 2012: 83.8%
Cam Guthrie's kicking effeciency in 2012: 75.0%
You can't tell me Cam is more ambitious with his kicking either.
Both are good defenders, Josh IMO was slightly better but when it comes the attacking side of the game there is no contest. When it comes to kicking outs or rebound 50's I suggest Hunt has one of the best records in the league at creating scoring opportunities. On last years form it's not even close. Guthrie could improve and take his spot but IMO it needs to be a big improvement on last season, far bigger than what I'd considered normal development.
Cam Guthrie's kicking effeciency in 2012: 75.0%
You can't tell me Cam is more ambitious with his kicking either.
Both are good defenders, Josh IMO was slightly better but when it comes the attacking side of the game there is no contest. When it comes to kicking outs or rebound 50's I suggest Hunt has one of the best records in the league at creating scoring opportunities. On last years form it's not even close. Guthrie could improve and take his spot but IMO it needs to be a big improvement on last season, far bigger than what I'd considered normal development.
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Correct, it's extremely difficult to see Guthrie making up the large gap unless and until Hunt goes backwards at a smart clip.
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Very different situations though FS. Josh Hunt has had a very good last two seasons; and as has been posted was in the side with Guthrie. So it's not as simple as a straight swap.
With Corey it's very different, he was pretty ordinary for just about all of last season, and we've got not one but two ready-made replacements - contested ball winners both - itching to take over in Horlin-Smith and Caddy. I'm far from convinced that considering we've still got Selwood, Bartel, Johnson, Kelly, Varcoe, Christensen and Duncan all available, that Corey is essential to the best 22. He certainly can't be an automatic inclusion. And if his senior form isn't as good, he can't or shouldn't be picked based on how good he was 3 years ago. Instead of now.
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You may be right Partridge but there is no way they'd leave Corey out of a round 1 side.
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meto
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His pre-season has been brilliant he was close to BOG against Collingwood last week along with his experience and maturity it will be hard to keep him out.
I want to see Caddy and Horlin to, but they must displace him first to prove their the superior options, till they do that he keeps his spot IMO.
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BOG? According to the AFL site and other sites I've seen he wasn't even listed in the best players. Did you make that up?
No way has his pre-season been brilliant - he didn't even play midfield against North.
They will never displace him based on that theory, because they'll never get the chance. They both should, they've both been better over the summer and NAB Cup. Hawkins hadn't displaced Mooney in 2011, but the match committee made the tough (and correct) call that he would soon surpass him.
Only thing that'll happen if Corey is preferred to Horlin-Smith and Caddy is they won't get the development they should (and thoroughly deserve based on this pre-season), and Corey will continue to decline. And of course, supporters will continue to deny reality.
Im sharing your thoughts on the Corey situation Partridge.
By his standards, i thought Corey had a very ordinary 2012. His disposal was average at best,at times looked
slow(in decision making aswell),and he struggled to have an influence on games.
I dont think the team would have been any worse off last year with say a Stringer/Murdoch/Horlin-Smith
taking Coreys place in the 22.
He played 2 games that i would say were up to his standard,Rd 17 v Bombers ,and he was on fire against the Crowes the week after before being injured. He had half a dozen others where he was just servicable.
He looks fit from what ive seen in the Nab Cup,so hopefully he can regain some form.
As far as 2013 goes,For Round 1 v Hawks,with No Kelly or Johnson,i believe Corey should play.
His big body,clearance work,and endurance will be vital with the 2 outs.
It probably means 1 of the young guys will miss Rd1 because Corey plays,but with our schedule over the
1st month they will get a chance ,i think we will rotate with the 6 day breaks.
If he continues to struggle,i can see Caddy/Horlin-Smith/Stringer overtaking Corey during the year.
It may end up like the Milburn situation in 2011,where he plays on/off during the year,and a hard
decision has to be made come September.
For now,I hope he winds back the clock,and helps the Cats to a win in Round 1.
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Thing about Milburn though, he had niggly injuries throughout the season. I don't think he played VFL at all. It could happen with Corey, but I'm not willing to write him of yet. He showed glimpses of good form in the televised games (he wasn't really in the action a lot, but that's to be expected of a 31 year old midfielder in the NAB Cup). What may really hurt him is his lack of versatility, he's not a midfielder that you can stick in the forwardline and I don't think he should be a defender either. So it's in the midfield or bust.
I think Corey has a role but IMO we need to make sure that role is well thought out and plays to his strengths.
From the AFL prospectus:
" (In 2012) Corey ranked 3rd at Geelong for contested possessions, clearances and center clearances. He attended the third most center bounces of any Geelong midfielder and the club won clearances 13% more often than the opposition when he was in attendance - the best differential of the top 50 center-bounce attendees in the AFL for 2012".
This reflects what's been discussed here recently and that is we should exclusively use Corey for center bounces. A specialist who perhaps plays a little less TOG but when he does he's asked to be a battering ram in the center of the pitch. He had an interrupted preseason last year, which didn't help, but I think we made a mistake using him too often on the wing (particularly early in the season) or in the back line. IMO he should only play out of the center. For instance round 1 against Hawthorn, with Kelly out, I absolutely would pick Corey ahead of Horlin-Smith or Caddy. Round 2, coming off a six day break and with Kelly returning, I'd lean towards one of the younger two. I think these are the sorts of decisions that will need to be made on a week by week basis.
I agree Corey's selection should not often be at the expense of the development of Horlin-Smith or Caddy. I think ideally Corey is used to protect these young players, maybe give them a mid season break or when we have a long injury list (particularly if one of Kelly and Selwood are out) but more often than not I'd go with Caddy or Horlin-Smith in the regular season. I do think though round 1 is one of those few exceptions when I'd be picking Corey over Caddy/Horlin-Smith. It's a strong team we're playing and Geelong are short one of our two best clearance players (Kelly). We need the extra inside work Corey provides.
From the AFL prospectus:
" (In 2012) Corey ranked 3rd at Geelong for contested possessions, clearances and center clearances. He attended the third most center bounces of any Geelong midfielder and the club won clearances 13% more often than the opposition when he was in attendance - the best differential of the top 50 center-bounce attendees in the AFL for 2012".
This reflects what's been discussed here recently and that is we should exclusively use Corey for center bounces. A specialist who perhaps plays a little less TOG but when he does he's asked to be a battering ram in the center of the pitch. He had an interrupted preseason last year, which didn't help, but I think we made a mistake using him too often on the wing (particularly early in the season) or in the back line. IMO he should only play out of the center. For instance round 1 against Hawthorn, with Kelly out, I absolutely would pick Corey ahead of Horlin-Smith or Caddy. Round 2, coming off a six day break and with Kelly returning, I'd lean towards one of the younger two. I think these are the sorts of decisions that will need to be made on a week by week basis.
I agree Corey's selection should not often be at the expense of the development of Horlin-Smith or Caddy. I think ideally Corey is used to protect these young players, maybe give them a mid season break or when we have a long injury list (particularly if one of Kelly and Selwood are out) but more often than not I'd go with Caddy or Horlin-Smith in the regular season. I do think though round 1 is one of those few exceptions when I'd be picking Corey over Caddy/Horlin-Smith. It's a strong team we're playing and Geelong are short one of our two best clearance players (Kelly). We need the extra inside work Corey provides.
meto
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I'm not sufficiently enamoured by Joel Corey to attempt denying realities if in fact he has trained and played poorly this pre-season, and no! I didn't make it up, I'm no Patrick Smith!
I've heard glowing training reports and last week read he played very well V Collingwood.
Fine! you've mentioned one Joel Corey and two Horlin and Caddy, but then which one gets the nod?
I know these guys are the future but you've got to be certain they're the better choice 'right now' verses the Hawks, who incidentally have got a pretty good midfield.
