Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[vinum coupe]

I can restart the Guthrie talk.
I was talking about him to someone yesterday. The comment was "I'm not to sure about him. I reckon he might be a bit soft. He reminds me of David Cameron"
I could say nothing but WTF?

 

[Pivo]

I can restart the Guthrie talk.
I was talking about him to someone yesterday. The comment was "I'm not to sure about him. I reckon he might be a bit soft. He reminds me of David Cameron"
I could say nothing but WTF?

Politics and sport never mix VC, remind your friend of that.

 

[you pick one]

It's not 2007 though; and it's not 2010 either. It's 2013 and he's now 31. If you think he didn't clearly decline last year, let's say we'll agree to disagree. He may some horrible blunders - including in the Elimination Final. Those errors aren't going to magically go away because we ignore them.

I pulled this from the Age,scary when you see it written down,got to say it's very Lions like and I'm sure they were talking up their kids coming through at the time,we won't truly know how good ours are until those below are no more.
Far easier to look good surrounded by these old farts than with out them.

"Aside from the likes of Enright (aged 31), Corey (31), Bartel (29) and Johnson (29), there is a bunch of Geelong players closer to the end of their careers than the start and could easily coast to the finish line, satisfied with all the success they have achieved. But players like Paul Chapman (31), Josh Hunt (31), James Podsiadly (31), James Kelly (29), Tom Lonergan (28), Andrew Mackie (28) and Mathew Stokes (28) seem to be revitalised by the promise of the club's next generation."​

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Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-hunger-games-20130324-2gofu.html#ixzz2OVMPaeW7​

 

[Partridge]

I pulled this from the Age,scary when you see it written down,got to say it's very Lions like and I'm sure they were talking up their kids coming through at the time,we won't truly know how good ours are until those below are no more.
Far easier to look good surrounded by these old farts than with out them.

"Aside from the likes of Enright (aged 31), Corey (31), Bartel (29) and Johnson (29), there is a bunch of Geelong players closer to the end of their careers than the start and could easily coast to the finish line, satisfied with all the success they have achieved. But players like Paul Chapman (31), Josh Hunt (31), James Podsiadly (31), James Kelly (29), Tom Lonergan (28), Andrew Mackie (28) and Mathew Stokes (28) seem to be revitalised by the promise of the club's next generation."​

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-hunger-games-20130324-2gofu.html#ixzz2OVMPaeW7​

Yeah the truly terrifying thing with that Lions side was how quickly they went from a top team - good enough to make the Grand Final in 2004 - to being pretty ordinary. With more or less the same personnel.

Pretty sure Scott is fully aware of it though and making sure it does NOT happen. But that's precisely why you don't let decorated veterans leave on their terms; they'll never go until they embarrass themselves like Stoneham.

 

[Partridge]

I can restart the Guthrie talk.
I was talking about him to someone yesterday. The comment was "I'm not to sure about him. I reckon he might be a bit soft. He reminds me of David Cameron"
I could say nothing but WTF?

Pretty apt response. Aside from a superficial physical resemblance there's nothing in common between them.

 

[The rabbi]

Is this thread about Guthrie?

 

[vinum coupe]

It can be whatever you want it to be about Rabbi

 

[you pick one]

Yeah the truly terrifying thing with that Lions side was how quickly they went from a top team - good enough to make the Grand Final in 2004 - to being pretty ordinary. With more or less the same personnel.

Pretty sure Scott is fully aware of it though and making sure it does NOT happen. But that's precisely why you don't let decorated veterans leave on their terms; they'll never go until they embarrass themselves like Stoneham.

Scotts will also know he needs to buy some time with our lopsided list,I've posted this before but it's worth doing again.
23 year olds as at today..Sheringham.
24.............................Hawkins,Simpson,Varcoe,Selwood.
25.............................Bathie,West.
26.............................Taylor.
27.............................None,zilch, zip.
People can spin it all they like but that's not a healthy list looking ahead and not the fault of the club,simply the AFL draft doing it's job.
If I was Scott I wouldn't be wanting a mass exit of Vets at the end of this year,2 or 3 at most while the lists so young.
And did I mention Guthrie.

 

[vinum coupe]

But, but, where are the 21 and 22 year olds?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Scotts will also know he needs to buy some time with our lopsided list,I've posted this before but it's worth doing again.
23 year olds as at today..Sheringham.
24.............................Hawkins,Simpson,Varcoe,Selwood.
25.............................Bathie,West.
26.............................Taylor.
27.............................None,zilch, zip.
People can spin it all they like but that's not a healthy list looking ahead and not the fault of the club,simply the AFL draft doing it's job.

One way I would say you can spin it is that we would be one of very few teams in the comp (and possibly the only 2012 finalist) that could put a competitive, AFL-experienced lineup for 2017 on the field right now, with no-one older than Harry (just 31 in mid-2017).

B: Guthrie, Taylor, T.Hunt
HB: Stringer, Brown, Varcoe
C: Murdoch, Selwood, Caddy
HF: Duncan, Vardy, Menzel
F: Motlop, Hawkins, Smedts
R: West, Horlin-Smith, Christensen
I/C: Sheringham, Walker, Simpson, Cowan, Schoder, McCarthy

How many non-expansion teams could put a respectable Round 1, 2017 lineup on the park this year, consisting entirely of 30 and under players (as of Round 1, 2017) who already have AFL experience (as of Round 1, 2013)? My guess is not many. Will all those players make it? I doubt it. But we've also got plenty of talented players who will no doubt come close to debuting this year (Kersten, Blicavs, Thurlow, even Hamling).

 

[Partridge]

One way I would say you can spin it is that we would be one of very few teams in the comp (and possibly the only 2012 finalist) that could put a competitive, AFL-experienced lineup for 2017 on the field right now, with no-one older than Harry (just 31 in mid-2017).

B: Guthrie, Taylor, T.Hunt
HB: Stringer, Brown, Varcoe
C: Murdoch, Selwood, Caddy
HF: Duncan, Vardy, Menzel
F: Motlop, Hawkins, Smedts
R: West, Horlin-Smith, Christensen
I/C: Sheringham, Walker, Simpson, Cowan, Schoder, McCarthy

How many non-expansion teams could put a respectable Round 1, 2017 lineup on the park this year, consisting entirely of 30 and under players (as of Round 1, 2017) who already have AFL experience (as of Round 1, 2013)? My guess is not many. Will all those players make it? I doubt it. But we've also got plenty of talented players who will no doubt come close to debuting this year (Kersten, Blicavs, Thurlow, even Hamling).

Great point. Very confident (certain in fact) that Scott is absolutely aware of this. The dreaded word TRANSITION is the critical one. How to move those young guys into the senior roles as seamlessly as possible. Very tough job.

 

[you pick one]

Very tough alright in a sense where victims of our own success and who knows it may not be over which only adds the Scotts dilemma,this year will be a real juggling act.

 

[David the Cat]

Massive generalisations being made here. Players mature at different ages and become very good players, and they decline at different ages as well. Some go to 35, even older, some are shot at 28.

Drawing a line through players on the basis of chronological age is plain wrong. Mathews, Ablett, Tuck, Bartlett, Fletcher....there are many others......all played great football after 32 years of age.....we have players being written off here at 31....some of them club greats.

I think we need to hold fire on our older champions, manage them carefully while developing our next generation, and see how the season pans out. I would be loath to write off the Coreys, Chapmans and Enrights of this world right now. They are hard, tough and experienced and bloody minded.......if they cant cut it at any stage or feel like they are not contributing, they will be, along with Scott, the first to know it. We have a tough initiation in the first five rounds......they, and we, will see soon enough.

 

[meto]

I think we have to cut these veterans some slack, statistics prove that these guys are still at the pointy end of those numbers, in particular last year when a few injuries struck and form was affected.

Recruitment is particularly vital over the next few years as we attempt to adequately adapt to the departure of many top players from the list.

Rivers was an eccential choice to soften the scarlett blow and allow more time, although I believe he'll weld perfectly to the mature group around him while we develop and recruit, it's a juggling act and a tough job for Steve Wells to get it right in the next few drafts.
I reckon Steve would deserve his pension after that.

 

[cynical]

Scotts will also know he needs to buy some time with our lopsided list,I've posted this before but it's worth doing again.
23 year olds as at today..Sheringham.
24.............................Hawkins,Simpson,Varcoe,Selwood.
25.............................Bathie,West.
26.............................Taylor.
27.............................None,zilch, zip.
People can spin it all they like but that's not a healthy list looking ahead and not the fault of the club,simply the AFL draft doing it's job.
If I was Scott I wouldn't be wanting a mass exit of Vets at the end of this year,2 or 3 at most while the lists so young.
And did I mention Guthrie.

we should be getting rid of probably 5 old guys at the end of the year because of the added depth of caddy/rivers/hmac

age profiling isn't meaningless but it isn't that big a deal it's more about experience and leadership

we still have guys like selwood, hawkins and varcoe who are all multiple premiership players

duncan, christensen have also won a flag

those are 5 guys who have a fair amount of experience at a young age and all are top players, really only christensen is close to the fringe

when 2015 comes around we will likely have a few lean years but we wont fall off a cliff like brisbane

 

[you pick one]

Massive generalisations being made here. Players mature at different ages and become very good players, and they decline at different ages as well. Some go to 35, even older, some are shot at 28.

Drawing a line through players on the basis of chronological age is plain wrong. Mathews, Ablett, Tuck, Bartlett, Fletcher....there are many others......all played great football after 32 years of age.....we have players being written off here at 31....some of them club greats.

I think we need to hold fire on our older champions, manage them carefully while developing our next generation, and see how the season pans out. I would be loath to write off the Coreys, Chapmans and Enrights of this world right now. They are hard, tough and experienced and bloody minded.......if they cant cut it at any stage or feel like they are not contributing, they will be, along with Scott, the first to know it. We have a tough initiation in the first five rounds......they, and we, will see soon enough.

There are a lot here who I think never played beyond under 18s and wouldn't know the value of what hardened season men bring to a side and how much more confident the younger ones are with them around.

 

[FredLeDeux]

we should be getting rid of probably 5 old guys at the end of the year because of the added depth of caddy/rivers/hmac

age profiling isn't meaningless but it isn't that big a deal it's more about experience and leadership

we still have guys like selwood, hawkins and varcoe who are all multiple premiership players

duncan, christensen have also won a flag

those are 5 guys who have a fair amount of experience at a young age and all are top players, really only christensen is close to the fringe

when 2015 comes around we will likely have a few lean years but we wont fall off a cliff like brisbane

At the end of this season we need to have room to take advantage of the renewal of uncompromised drafts and to trade in any FAs we want (eg a retread ruckman).
To do this, we need to clear out any younger players the MC thinks aren't going to be part of our long-term future, any voluntary retirees, and any older players who the MC thinks aren't going to be part of our basic 25-26 man squad in 2014. It is unnecessary and illogical to set any specific number of "old guys" to be "got rid of". It depends solely upon what the MC thinks they can bring to the table in 2014.

 

[you pick one]

we should be getting rid of probably 5 old guys at the end of the year because of the added depth of caddy/rivers/hmac

age profiling isn't meaningless but it isn't that big a deal it's more about experience and leadership

we still have guys like selwood, hawkins and varcoe who are all multiple premiership players

duncan, christensen have also won a flag

those are 5 guys who have a fair amount of experience at a young age and all are top players, really only christensen is close to the fringe

when 2015 comes around we will likely have a few lean years but we wont fall off a cliff like brisbane

2 at the end of this year 3 end of next would even out the transition.don't forget we have some cap concessions to with these Vets.

 

[cynical]

2 at the end of this year 3 end of next would even out the transition.don't forget we have some cap concessions to with these Vets.

there is no way we can hold onto most of chapman, corey, enright, j hunt, stokes and pods

i would say there is a good chance that it's the last year for most of those guys, one last crack at a flag then retirement (stokes will go to melbourne/port etc after not getting many games this year)

we probably have too much depth this year so by the end of the year a couple more guys will need to retire, can't have seasoned young guys sitting in the vfl waiting to get poached

Maybe if we get a worst case scenario with Menzel and/or Vardy then Chappy/Pods would probably be required for another year.

 

[FredLeDeux]

there is no way we can hold onto most of chapman, corey, enright, j hunt, stokes and pods

i would say there is a good chance that it's the last year for most of those guys, one last crack at a flag then retirement (stokes will go to melbourne/port etc after not getting many games this year)

we probably have too much depth this year so by the end of the year a couple more guys will need to retire, can't have seasoned young guys sitting in the vfl waiting to get poached

Maybe if we get a worst case scenario with Menzel and/or Vardy then Chappy/Pods would probably be required for another year.

We should hang on to any of these players (who don't retire), if the MC thinks they are good enough to be in our 25-26 man squad in 2014.
VFL players (seasoned or otherwise) who can't force these blokes out will just have to take their chances.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

there is no way we can hold onto most of chapman, corey, enright, j hunt, stokes and pods

Yes we can. If they all kill it (say AA/B&F calibre years for Chapman, Enright and Corey; and career-best years for Hunt, Stokes and Podsiadly) and want to continue on in 2014, they could all get another year. Pods is the only one that I can see getting forced out if he matches his production over the past three years, but what if he kicks 65 goals?

Theoretically, they can all earn a spot on next years team, but for every one who stays next year, a younger player will be sacrificed.

 

[Partridge]

Yes we can. If they all kill it (say AA/B&F calibre years for Chapman, Enright and Corey; and career-best years for Hunt, Stokes and Podsiadly) and want to continue on in 2014, they could all get another year. Pods is the only one that I can see getting forced out if he matches his production over the past three years, but what if he kicks 65 goals?

Theoretically, they can all earn a spot on next years team, but for every one who stays next year, a younger player will be sacrificed.

That's exactly it. So people shouldn't complain if we're rubbish in 3 years because they club didn't have the balls to drop veterans who were finished, and the kids went elsewhere. But of course, they would be "doing the right thing".

 

[Cattery]

That's exactly it. So people shouldn't complain if we're rubbish in 3 years because they club didn't have the balls to drop veterans who were finished, and the kids went elsewhere. But of course, they would be "doing the right thing".

Guthrie, Motlop, T Hunt, Smedts when fit, even Murdoch toward the back end of the season, all kids and all getting plenty of game time, so not sure which kids you're referring to who may leave in search of greener pastures.

Also would like to know which veterans you consider as "finished" as I don't see any of them ready for the scrap heap just yet.

Personally think the MC are getting a difficult balancing act just about right.

 

[you pick one]

I reckon the club and Scott believe we can do something special this year why else would they pick up Rivers and H.Mc.
We will and should pick the best available side each week regardless of age,but taking into consideration work load on the older legs,which will in it's self create opportunities for the younger players to press their case.Win win.
How do I give myself a like

 

[Pivo]

^Here, let me give you a gratuitous 'like'.

Just doesn't seem fair one can't pat themselves on the back.

I feel like I just prostituted myself then.