Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[hawkman]

Playing a quarter less in gametime might be a factor.

Average 23 per game which is the equivalent of nearly 29 for normal length quarters

 

[Sonny Hayes]

I’ve tipped Hawthorn for the flag this year since the day they went to playing without crowds.

In a crazy, messed up year so much comes down to being able to prepare in changing circumstances and luck.

Clarko brings the first better than anyone. Luck is what it is - at this stage Hawthorn are relatively injury free, and seem to have dodged the worst of the fixturing stuff.


The league has been very even for a few years; just having a good coach this year might be enough to get over the top.

I mean we have avoided a hub so far but we have played Geelong in Geelong and a ‘home’ game against North at Marvel since the return. Not sure it’s been to easy for us.

 

[Furn2]

"Once you add qualifiers Hawthorn has been the best this year."

Comedy gold.

The answer remains no.

What would change your mind ?

 

[boncer34]

What would change your mind ?

Succeeding

 

[Furn2]

Succeeding

But isnt you're position that they can't succeed ? Not that they won't. ?

 

[boncer34]

But isnt you're position that they can't succeed ? Not that they won't. ?

No. My position is they haven't succeeded while ignoring the top end.

That could very well change.

 

[Sirlemsip]

No. My position is they haven't succeeded while ignoring the top end.

That could very well change.

Depends on what your definition of 'success' is though.

If 'success' is winning the flag then it is easy to show that focusing on the top end doesn't necessarily bring you success (e.g. Melbourne, Carlton).

 

[boncer34]

Depends on what your definition of 'success' is though.

If 'success' is winning the flag then it is easy to show that focusing on the top end doesn't necessarily bring you success (e.g. Melbourne, Carlton).

Hawthorn circa 2013-2015 disagree and besides nobody is saying that approach guarantees a flag, but it does work.

Has there been a premiership team where the team hasn't used multiple top 10/15 picks?

 

[Sirlemsip]

Hawthorn circa 2013-2015 disagree and besides nobody is saying that approach guarantees a flag, but it does work.

Has there been a premiership team where the team hasn't used multiple top 10/15 picks?

Yes. Every premiership team from before the Draft existed.

Also, we do have multiple 'top 10 pick' players in the team, we just didn't bring them in as 18 year olds.

Who would you rather, the current Hawthorn line-up, or this list of top 10 pick superstars:
FB: Liam Sumner, Luke McDonald, Chris Yarran
HB: Reece Conca, Caleb Marchbank, Cale Morton
C: Jon O'Rourke, Sam Mayes, Jack Watts
R: Daniel Gorringe, Dom Tyson, Jack Trengove
HF: Jimmy Toumpas, Josh Schache, Andrew Moore
FF: Nathan Freeman, Paddy McCartin, Ty Vickery

 

[TylerDurden]

Chad.

 

[boncer34]

Yes. Every premiership team from before the Draft existed.

Also, we do have multiple 'top 10 pick' players in the team, we just didn't bring them in as 18 year olds.

Who would you rather, the current Hawthorn line-up, or this list of top 10 pick superstars:
FB: Liam Sumner, Luke McDonald, Chris Yarran
HB: Reece Conca, Caleb Marchbank, Cale Morton
C: Jon O'Rourke, Sam Mayes, Jack Watts
R: Daniel Gorringe, Dom Tyson, Jack Trengove
HF: Jimmy Toumpas, Josh Schache, Andrew Moore
FF: Nathan Freeman, Paddy McCartin, Ty Vickery

So teams irrelevant to the discussion. Cool.

And yes a top 10 pick isn't a guarantee of success. But can you find one premiership team that didn't draft multiple top 10/15 picks?

 

[threesixpio]

Wingerz > Shiel > Burton > McGrath

 

[threesixpio]

Wingard was a bad trade

 

[hawkman]

Only performs in dead rubbers apparently.

Best player at Hawthorn this season

 

[Leeda]

and the Wing..aard has earned his Adidas stripes for now.. keen to get it going more..

"hard" is not a bad word..

 

[hk89]

"Once you add qualifiers Hawthorn has been the best this year."

You think Port, GC and Brisbane are the 3 best teams in it, or you think their performances should be qualified by the fact they have beaten up on the bottom 3? Thanks for your simplistic , unqualified analysis of the situation. I guess we should say Essendon are clearly the worst team in the 8, because qualifying their ladder position on the fact they've only played 3 games would be comedy gold instead of a sensible contextualisation of the situation?

If you really want comedy gold, let us hope Essendon stay in the 8 for the season, because there will be nothing funnier than watching them lose ANOTHER elimination final in yet another humiliating thrashing.

 

[boncer34]

You think Port, GC and Brisbane are the 3 best teams in it, or you think their performances should be qualified by the fact they have beaten up on the bottom 3? Thanks for your simplistic , unqualified analysis of the situation. I guess we should say Essendon are clearly the worst team in the 8, because qualifying their ladder position on the fact they've only played 3 games would be comedy gold instead of a sensible contextualisation of the situation?

If you really want comedy gold, let us hope Essendon stay in the 8 for the season, because there will be nothing funnier than watching them lose ANOTHER elimination final in yet another humiliating thrashing.

Nope.

But if you're just going to tell me what I think rather than bother discussing it I guess you'd come to that conclusion.

And yes Essendon are very very bad, oh no how will I ever recover from your sick burn about that?

 

[TylerDurden]

Nope.

But if you're just going to tell me what I think rather than bother discussing it I guess you'd come to that conclusion.

And yes Essendon are very very bad, oh no how will I ever recover from your sick burn about that?

Having said that, you'll probably knock off the Pies this week! Haha

 

[hk89]

But if you're just going to tell me what I think rather than bother discussing it I guess you'd come to that conclusion.

I asked the question, did you think it was rhetorical, or were you just lacking a clever answer?

And yes Essendon are very very bad

I think that's going a little too far. Bad at winning finals - sure, but this year I'd say mediocre would be fair, and that "very very bad" is overstating things, at least without some qualification on how you reached that assessment.

 

[boncer34]

Having said that, you'll probably knock off the Pies this week! Haha

I tipped Carlton. We're terrible, we have aging KPD and no KPF.

I asked the question, did you think it was rhetorical, or were you just lacking a clever answer?

Since you thanked me for my simplistic analysis straight after it's pretty clear you didn't need an answer.

 

[Furn2]

So teams irrelevant to the discussion. Cool.

And yes a top 10 pick isn't a guarantee of success. But can you find one premiership team that didn't draft multiple top 10/15 picks?

Can you find one team at all that hasn't drafted multiple top 10/15 picks other than this Hawks side and maybe the Cats very recently ?

It simple handy been an option until the last 5-6 years because players didn't move enough.

 

[boncer34]

Can you find one team at all that hasn't drafted multiple top 10/15 picks other than this Hawks side and maybe the Cats very recently ?

It simple handy been an option until the last 5-6 years because players didn't move enough.

So what you're saying is it's a new untried strategy?
Thanks.

 

[Furn2]

So what you're saying is it's a new untried strategy?
Thanks.

It just seemed like u were asking for examples of success for an new untried strategy, which would be fallacous reasoning.

 

[threesixpio]

I tipped Carlton. We're terrible, we have aging KPD and no KPF.

Since you thanked me for my simplistic analysis straight after it's pretty clear you didn't need an answer.

We have a young spritely Mitch Lewis and Timmy OBrien and an experienced Patton to have them under his wings in terms of our KPF

KPD? Frosty. Frawley and McEvoy to plug the hole while our young Kosi learns his craft

 

[boncer34]

It just seemed like u were asking for examples of success for an new untried strategy, which would be fallacous reasoning.

No my point was listing a heap of top 10 failed picks as a reason why that strategy fails isn't a great point, since the evidence shows it does work.

Will this Hawks plan work? Dunno, but it hasn't yet.