Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Spook]

No one's arguing you didn't bring players in.

But they ignored the draft.

That's literally what the thread is about.

No, this thread is about the "elite end of the draft" can you not read the title?? my previous posts show how we got elite end draftees to the club.

You are being very passive-aggressive today Bird Man.

 

[WWSD]

No one's arguing you didn't bring players in.

But they ignored the draft.

That's literally what the thread is about.

Ignored the draft from 2015-2018? Yes

Ignored the draft in 2019? No

Last year for the first time in a long time Hawthorn managed to improve their draft position.

If the ladder stayed as it is at the end of Round 17, Hawthorn will have two picks inside the top 25.

 

[falcons2]

Will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think think if you give up picks 7, 25, 26, 36 in two drafts you want a better player than O'Meara

You are arguing a theory. My point is a reality.
The 2016 draft beyond pick 13, which would have been Hawthorns earliest pick, I don't see anyone who makes me say, ooh I wish they were at Hawthorn.
The same from 2017, from 7 to Worpel at 45, no-one who has done enough to say the same. Although Naugton, Allen even McCartin look alright as forwards

Finally 7, 25, 26, 36 for O'Meara sounds like over the odds. But the 16 & 17 drafts aren't that good. The 18 & 19 drafts appear ahead of them for quality already.

 

[Toump Ass]

No need for Hawkthorn to worry, I'm sure they're lining up a Toby Greene or Josh Kelly for a third rounder as we speak.

 

[bird_man]

Its good to look up what trades happened and what draft picks were missed etc.

For a thread that is about the draft, I would have thought that a full draft and trade history would be some interesting info.

No worries,

I think it would be more relevant if it focused on the last 5 years

 

[WWSD]

No need for Hawkthorn to worry, I'm sure they're lining up a Toby Greene or Josh Kelly for a third rounder as we speak.

Maybe in 3-4 years as a salary dump.

 

[bird_man]

You are arguing a theory. My point is a reality.
The 2016 draft beyond pick 13, which would have been Hawthorns earliest pick, I don't see anyone who makes me say, ooh I wish they were at Hawthorn.
The same from 2017, from 7 to Worpel at 45, no-one who has done enough to say the same. Although Naugton, Allen even McCartin look alright as forwards

Finally 7, 25, 26, 36 for O'Meara sounds like over the odds. But the 16 & 17 drafts aren't that good. The 18 & 19 drafts appear ahead of them for quality already.

How am I arguing a theory and your point reality?

In terms of the 16 and 17 drafts, there was nothing wrong with them. They were average drafts with plenty of quality.

Any draft compared to the 18 draft won't look as strong and there's nothing to suggest last year's was stronger outside of the top pick or 2.

 

[Leeda]

Maybe in 3-4 years as a salary dump.

nope u aren't working.. k33p point..

 

[Hawk Dork]

Maybe in 3-4 years as a salary dump.

They dont dump their Gillionaire AFL ambassadors

 

[Pessimistic]

They dont dump their Gillionaire AFL ambassadors

strangely not mentioned in cash crisis talks. Let’s just dump the rookies

 

[Hot Diggity]

I know you are only as good as your last match (and Hawthorn haven’t been good recently), but the Hawks still have the same number of wins at this point as GWS, West Coast, Richmond and Collingwood - all teams expected to be contenders.

They have also had one of the toughest draws so far - only 1 game vs the likely bottom contingent of Adelaide, Sydney, North, Melbourne, Freo, GC, and none against St Kilda, Bulldogs, Carlton (who might be considered the next tier).

Definitely too early to write them off. A big win vs Melbourne this week and suddenly they’re back in contention with a real chance to build momentum heading to finals, and that’s where the veteran approach can pay off. I still think they are as good a chance as any at a premiership in this bonkers year.

Some worrying signs from Clarko, though, with some ‘late Kevin Sherry’ vibes emerging - too much faith in the old guard at times, a lack of flexibility. Of course ‘late Sheedy’ came roaring back with the 99-01 Bombers so make of that what you will...

And the big risk with the strategy of recruiting older ‘proven’ players is you pay a bit of a premium for them. It’s ok as long as you don’t unexpectedly ‘miss’ and can keep it rolling, but any misses cost double (ie; IF Wingard is a miss it costs both Burton and a draft pick which is a hefty price - lucky he had been ok-ish so far).

I am pessimistic about us, but I keep coming back to when we beat Essendon by 160 points in Round 20 1992.

13 months later, with 8 changes to the side from that day, they won a flag...

Probably more hope than anything...

 

[blaisee]

I'm not sure why people are saying Hawthorn has "ignored" the draft. When you trade you are still trading for players who were originally drafted. Hawthorn has heaps of early draft picks. If they play their best footy at Hawthorn then the only decision is what was traded for them. In the years of compromised drafts and Hawthorn finishing top or near the top we had to trade to get these picks. The philosophy is still to be shown to have worked or not.

Draft Pick #1 2011 Jon Patton
Draft Pick #1 2011md O'Meara
Draft Pick #1 2009 Scully
Draft Pick #6 2011 Wingard
Draft Pick #7 2016 Scrimshaw
Draft Pick #21 2011 Tom Mitchell - Pick 21 was a Father-Son so probably normally even earlier
Draft Pick #21 2013 Jarman Impey

Lol

 

[TylerDurden]

I am pessimistic about us, but I keep coming back to when we beat Essendon by 160 points in Round 20 1992.

13 months later, with 8 changes to the side from that day, they won a flag...

Probably more hope than anything...

A Jarman clinic that day.

 

[Scotland]

A Jarman clinic that day.

Dunstall with a lazy 20 scoring shots. I miss the 90s.

Don't remember this game as a kid but that's a pretty handy Essendon side on paper to lose by 160.

 

[Hot Diggity]

Dunstall with a lazy 20 scoring shots. I miss the 90s.

Don't remember this game as a kid but that's a pretty handy Essendon side on paper to lose by 160.

One of the best days at the footy ever!

 

[Scotland]

One of the best days at the footy ever!

I was 8 that year but still remember listening to the radio in the car Richmond vs Hawthorn when Dunstall kicked 17 waiting to hear if he beat Fred Fanning's record, and Geelong kicking ridiculous scores most weeks. We kept them to 85, 77 and 107 in 3 games which were in their 5 lowest scores for the year. COVID-shortened games aside, those are usually winning scores now.

 

[Pessimistic]

One of the best days at the footy ever!

spruiked a a mini final if I remember correctly. It was fantastic, but kind of boring too

 

[Pessimistic]

9 goals to 6 is your benchmark for 2020

 

[Hot Diggity]

spruiked a a mini final if I remember correctly. It was fantastic, but kind of boring too

It's never boring when we beat Essendon by 160 points! I wish it had never ended!

 

[hk89]

Clarko needs to come up with a masterclass to beat Melbourne?

At the MCG I'd be more confident. We are playing you at a ground that we've got a 0-5 record on. The only other teams that have never won there are GC, Carlton, Freo and Saints, and GC are the only team that has had as many shots at it as we have. Did you watch us there last week? I haven't seen us look so completely without answers for a while, probably since the early games in 2017 when we were trying to adjust to the lack of S.Mitchell and J.Lewis.

 

[hk89]

Melb are very flimsy

As s**t as they have been, if they bring enough pressure, we'll struggle. Hard to like our chances after watching how we played last week. Looks like a few of our players I thought would miss another week, are up for selection, so if they actually get up, we might be a better chance than I thought, but given our record on the ground, still wouldn't give us better than 50/50.

 

[Slysh]

As sh*t as they have been, if they bring enough pressure, we'll struggle. Hard to like our chances after watching how we played last week. Looks like a few of our players I thought would miss another week, are up for selection, so if they actually get up, we might be a better chance than I thought, but given our record on the ground, still wouldn't give us better than 50/50.

To be honest after watching both teams recent weeks it will just bounce around the middle of the ground with both teams getting terrible inside 50's and the game will end in a thrilling 0 - 0 draw.

 

[WWSD]

If the ladder stays as it is Hawthorn will have pick 6 and 20 in this years draft.

 

[Hawk Dork]

If the ladder stays as it is Hawthorn will have pick 6 and 20 in this years draft.

Does that include Norfs second rounder ?

 

[WWSD]

Does that include Norfs second rounder ?

Yes