Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

WWSD

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The Hubris. Stay humble mate the cliff isn't far off.
Hawthorn won 6 of 8 to finish off the year with 4 of those wins against the top eight teams. All this WITHOUT Mitchell.

“cliff incoming!”

I suppose Hawthorn should adopt the Carlton approach. Battle it out for who has more first round picks without winning a Premiership.

🌈
 

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FairKouta

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Hawthorn won 6 of 8 to finish off the year with 4 of those wins against the top eight teams. All this WITHOUT Mitchell!

“cliff incoming!”

I suppose Hawthorn should adopt the Carlton approach. Battle it out for who has more first round picks without winning a Premiership.

🌈
Mate Adelaide were in a grandfinal 2 years ago. All I'm saying is footy is strange like that the cliff is around the corner for anybody for example Melbourne.
My point was stay humble. Sustained success for the likes of Geelong hawks and Sydney has been admirable but just a bit of modesty.
Clarko is only human.
 

WWSD

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Mate Adelaide were in a grandfinal 2 years ago. All I'm saying is footy is strange like that the cliff is around the corner for anybody for example Melbourne.
My point was stay humble. Sustained success for the likes of Geelong hawks and Sydney has been admirable but just a bit of modesty.
Clarko is only human.
I agree that success can only last for so long. Nobody knows what the Hawks team in 3-4 years time will look like.

But there will be some talent added over the next 2 years. Maginness is a highly rated junior, as is Downie who’s eligible for the 2020 draft. Fascinating off-season coming up.
 

matey

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Mate Adelaide were in a grandfinal 2 years ago. All I'm saying is footy is strange like that the cliff is around the corner for anybody for example Melbourne.
My point was stay humble. Sustained success for the likes of Geelong hawks and Sydney has been admirable but just a bit of modesty.
Clarko is only human.
Being humble on BF is a difficult state of mind when dealing with the swarm of parasite posters who just hate the back of Hawthorn due to all of the success it’s experienced over the last 6 decades. Humble is like a brother and sister of being sportsmanlike and respectful isn’t it? I don’t buy the “you’ve had your time, now it’s ours or someone else’s” theory you have to look deeper into a club and observe many things from its playing list, coaching, administration, leadership, innovation etc and the Hawks are still in a very good position in all these areas. Yes agree it can all change quickly like Crows being in a GF only two years ago. It can also go the other way quickly as well. There were whispers of Hardwick being sacked early 2016 and then Tigers saluted in 2017. Who picked the Dogs in 2016 or WC in 2018. Look at Lions climb this year. The comp is very close from top to bottom more so than ever. l am like many other Hawk fans very optimistic that the transition taken place since 2016 will position the club well for the next 5-7 years. If this eventuates it will definitely change club strategies in managing and building their playing list, i.e. you don’t need elite end draft picks!

Good luck to the blues next year I think they are on the right track and will improve.
 

blaisee

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Hawthorn won 6 of 8 to finish off the year with 4 of those wins against the top eight teams. All this WITHOUT Mitchell.

“cliff incoming!”

I suppose Hawthorn should adopt the Carlton approach. Battle it out for who has more first round picks without winning a Premiership.

🌈
You do realize you finished ninth right?

And you haven’t won a final in 4 years?

Hawthorn have already fallen off the cliff
 

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matey

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DO you really think that the Hawks in 2019, are the same as the tigers in 2016?

Surely you jest?
There was talk of Hardwick being sacked in 2016. Short memory! 1 premiership in 4 decades I am sure that Tiger supporters know what the bottom of a cliff looks like.

2019 no talk of Clarko being sacked. There is talk of how other clubs have contacted his management, hoping to get him by the lure of the dollar. The great man has resisted and stayed because he can see that something is brewing.
 

hk89

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DO you really think that the Hawks in 2019, are the same as the tigers in 2016?
Actually, Tigers 2016 did have some similarities to Hawthorn 2019.

The year before, Tigers had finished 5th before a dramatic drop down the ladder in 2016. Similar to Hawthorn finishing 4th before a a dramatic drop down the ladder in 2019 (after losing our best player in the offseason).

The similarities end there though. Hawthorn's drop down the ladder was predictable with their best Midfielder out, given their depth weaknesses in that area. A tougher draw didn't help either. Richmond were also considerably worse than Hawthorn towards the end of the 2016 season compared to Hawthorn in 2019. 3 of Richmonds last 6 games of the year were losses by 70, 88 and 113. Their only win during that period was 15 points against their fellow bottom 8 team, Collingwood. Hawthorn's last 6 games of 2019 included 3 wins against top 8 sides (by 24, 56 and 38), our biggest loss in those last 6 games was 27 against the team that finished second. (an unrelated aside, that 113 belting from Sydney in the final round was an amazing display for those who like to watch Hawthorn players running around in other team's jumpers, Kennedy 37 disposals, T.Mitchell 34 disposals, Lance Franklin 7 goals, Ben McGlynn 5 goals (his last ever H&A game) - all that Hawthorn talent and it still wasn't enough to win them the flag that year. Thank god we finally got one player heading back in the other direction).

So given how Richmond were travelling at the end of 2016, Hawthorn have a much more favourable launching platform from their 2019 season than Richmond had in 2016. Richmond got a couple of key recruits in the 2016 off season that allowed them to supplement their high quality top 4 with some much needed midfield depth. Hawthorn will be injecting the 2018 Brownlow medal winner into their midfield depth, and already had a fairly well functioning midfield in the last part of the season (after struggling with Mitchell's loss in the first half with Worpel still finding his feet, and Wingard coming off an injury marred pre-season).

Hawthorn don't have a coach on the verge of being sacked like Richmond did in 2016. Who knows, perhaps that was their secret weapon? Hardwick finally pulling his finger out once his job was on the line?

You extrapolate our end of year form, and Mitchell's return, and we should be confident of playing finals again in 2020. That is not a cliff. More like a yoyo. Hopefully we can stabilise the yoyoing for 2020/2021.
 
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Jobe Watson

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DO you really think that the Hawks in 2019, are the same as the tigers in 2016?

Surely you jest?
A lot of the Hawthorn fans who jumped on the bandwagon in 2008 aren't used to seeing their team suck. They just assume Hawthorn will be a contender every other year. They'll get a grip on reality soon enough.
 

hk89

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A lot of the Hawthorn fans who jumped on the bandwagon in 2008 aren't used to seeing their team suck. They just assume Hawthorn will be a contender every other year. They'll get a grip on reality soon enough.
You can see how they would jump to that conclusion though. Every other year from 2012 onwards we've finished the H&A season top 4.
2012:1st
2014:2nd
2016:3rd
2018:4th

A concerning trend to be sure. Suggests 2020 we'll miss out, finishing 5th! This must be the cliff everyone is warning us about! Now that would be a nasty dose of reality! When that happens we'll be sure to turn to Jobe for counselling on how to survive while not making the top 4 every other year. How many years of "reality" has it been for your mob now? I put reality in scare quotes because clearly your mob did spend a few years vastly separated from reality during the "#standbyhird" fiasco.
 

WWSD

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A lot of the Hawthorn fans who jumped on the bandwagon in 2008 aren't used to seeing their team suck. They just assume Hawthorn will be a contender every other year. They'll get a grip on reality soon enough.
“reality” LOL

That’s funny coming from an Essendon supporter. The least successful Victorian club since 2005.

💩
 

blaisee

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Actually, Tigers 2016 did have some similarities to Hawthorn 2019.

The year before, Tigers had finished 5th before a dramatic drop down the ladder in 2016. Similar to Hawthorn finishing 4th before a a dramatic drop down the ladder in 2019 (after losing our best player in the offseason).

The similarities end there though. Hawthorn's drop down the ladder was predictable with their best Midfielder out, given their depth weaknesses in that area. A tougher draw didn't help either. Richmond were also considerably worse than Hawthorn towards the end of the 2016 season compared to Hawthorn in 2019. 3 of Richmonds last 6 games of the year were losses by 70, 88 and 113. Their only win during that period was 15 points against their fellow bottom 8 team, Collingwood. Hawthorn's last 6 games of 2019 included 3 wins against top 8 sides (by 24, 56 and 38), our biggest loss in those last 6 games was 27 against the team that finished second. (an unrelated aside, that 113 belting from Sydney in the final round was an amazing display for those who like to watch Hawthorn players running around in other team's jumpers, Kennedy 37 disposals, T.Mitchell 34 disposals, Lance Franklin 7 goals, Ben McGlynn 5 goals (his last ever H&A game) - all that Hawthorn talent and it still wasn't enough to win them the flag that year. Thank god we finally got one player heading back in the other direction).

So given how Richmond were travelling at the end of 2016, Hawthorn have a much more favourable launching platform from their 2019 season than Richmond had in 2016. Richmond got a couple of key recruits in the 2016 off season that allowed them to supplement their high quality top 4 with some much needed midfield depth. Hawthorn will be injecting the 2018 Brownlow medal winner into their midfield depth, and already had a fairly well functioning midfield in the last part of the season (after struggling with Mitchell's loss in the first half with Worpel still finding his feet, and Wingard coming off an injury marred pre-season).

Hawthorn don't have a coach on the verge of being sacked like Richmond did in 2016. Who knows, perhaps that was their secret weapon? Hardwick finally pulling his finger out once his job was on the line?

You extrapolate our end of year form, and Mitchell's return, and we should be confident of playing finals again in 2020. That is not a cliff. More like a yoyo. Hopefully we can stabilise the yoyoing for 2020/2021.
There are big diffferences between the hawks of 19 and the tigers of 16

No 1, Richmond had 10 years of first round picks on the list

Martin, Cotchin, Flossy, Rance, Ellis, Deledio, Grigg, Rioli, Griffiths, Riewoldt ect

No 2, THese players mostly had their best football ahead of them

No3 Richmond could actually attract A grade free agents. Prestia , Caddy and Nank all came across

It is completely deluded to compare Hawthorn 2019, with a Richmond 2016 and expect a similar result

Looking forward to see
 

rogiebear93

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There are big diffferences between the hawks of 19 and the tigers of 16

No 1, Richmond had 10 years of first round picks on the list

Martin, Cotchin, Flossy, Rance, Ellis, Deledio, Grigg, Rioli, Griffiths, Riewoldt ect

No 2, THese players mostly had their best football ahead of them

No3 Richmond could actually attract A grade free agents. Prestia , Caddy and Nank all came across

It is completely deluded to compare Hawthorn 2019, with a Richmond 2016 and expect a similar result

Looking forward to see
Richmond could actually attract A grade free agents, Prestia, Caddy and Nank*

*listed names not free agents
 

Hawk_francais

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