Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[marty36]

Sure they can influence things but they can't control the result.
Hawks are feeling the pinch of equalisation right now, but if the AFL could get the outcome they wanted the Suns would be up there and GWS would have already won a flag.

Plus you'd have Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and Collingwood all looking like contenders.

They push and prod to achieve their result but they their actions don't always produce the outcome they want

But they can push and prod as much as they like though

If it doesn't succeed the first time try something different until it does work, have you seen the list of things tried

Priority Picks
F/S
Cola
Acadamies

Im sure there maybe a couple more in the future then to tweak the ones that work so they can control the the flow of players and teams

No different to all sports remember V8 supercars holden v ford, if one was getting away from the other, they changed the rules on downforce or brakes to either speed up the car or slow one down

Every sport needs a competitive situation they will not survive with 3 or 4 dominant teams and 3 or 4 train wrecks either

 

[Scotland]

Im sure if you added up the value of all the Hawthorn players it would be 2 or 3 x 1st round, 6 or 8 x 2nd round, a few would be 3rd rounders and the rest would be steak knives.

If we then did the same for St Kilda it would 4 or 5 x 1st round, 6 or 8 x 2nd round, etc.

Imagine if we then did Carlton. Would be 8 or 10 x 1st round, 8 or 10 x 2nd round, etc.

BigFooty would therefore conclude that Carlton is the best team of the 3. Then St Kilda. Then Hawthorn.

Yet...

Just don't ask Geelong fans to do it for their team. You'd end up with 100 x 1st round picks.

I don't 100% agree with your argument though. For argument's sake lets say Hawthorn 2015 is the best team you've had in the last 10-15 years. You could say 2013 or 2014, but 2015 was the oldest and the Return of the Jedi of the franchise.

Anyway, you have a team that has just won its 3rd premiership in a row and I would say it's not worth a whole lot trade wise. Mitchell and Lewis one whole year later were given away for peanuts. Hodge 'retired' and was traded for peanuts two years later. Suckling left as a free agent and earned band 4 compo. Hill was traded a year later for pick 23.

Really you are looking at a couple of guys in the 27 and under category who would be valuable. McEvoy at 26, Gunston at 24, Breust at 24, Rioli 26, Smith at 26, Hill at 22, Roughead and Birchall not knowing what the future had in store. It's a function of how footy goes. Better teams are generally older and older players lose value quickly. If anything your 2008 team was probably peak value with a bunch of stars 25 and under.. Our team is much stronger now than it was then but not necessarily more valuable. 25 year old Nic Naitanui before any ACLs was worth a lot. 29 year old Nic Naitanui after two ACLs, not so much. Shuey, Kennedy, Hurn... these sort of guys are still good players but not worth a whole lot in trade week.

 

[Gralin]

But they can push and prod as much as they like though

If it doesn't succeed the first time try something different until it does work, have you seen the list of things tried

Priority Picks
F/S
Cola
Acadamies

Im sure there maybe a couple more in the future then to tweak the ones that work so they can control the the flow of players and teams

No different to all sports remember V8 supercars holden v ford, if one was getting away from the other, they changed the rules on downforce or brakes to either speed up the car or slow one down

Every sport needs a competitive situation they will not survive with 3 or 4 dominant teams and 3 or 4 train wrecks either

Again, they can drag the top clubs back to the pack and allow some mid tier clubs the chance to get lucky but they can't pick anyone up off the bottom or pick who will win.

 

[HolyRioli]

Can Freo ask more for Brad Hill if he was traded to Hawthorn than they gave up for him?

He was contracted to Hawthorn.
The club moved him for compassionate reasons.
The Hawks took unders on the trade.
He was younger, had more footy in him.

Perhaps his reputation has grown at Freo, but only because he entered his prime at Freo. He was always a gun.

If Brad wants to come to us, then Freo owe the Hawks a fair trade. Or you could just argue the Hawks were too generous.

No room for sentiment at the trade table

 

[TheFourPillars]

Scully is not worthy of being on this list cmon hes lucky to be playing and is 50% of the player he was for the Giants in 16/17.
Wingard you clearly overpaid for
Omeara and Mitchell were great gets
Scrimshaw looks good but early days but signs are positive

3/5

Scully will be a completely different player next year

 

[hawkman]

No room for sentiment at the trade table

Depends on the club, if you are dealing with Essendon or Gold Coast absolutely not. If you are dealing with a reasonable club there can be a little bit

 

[Luv_our_club]

He is clearly a better player now. So yes.

Your likely pick probably a bit overs. So you get a later pick back.

I wouldn't say he is a better player now than at Hawthorn. He has more responsibility and more attention now, but what he does at Freo he did once for us. People just didn't see it when he played for us, because he was crowded out by other stars and he was young and we had no problems moving the ball. Brad Hill is Brad Hill... he only knows one way to play and that is run faster up and down the ground than everyone and then kick lace out.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Scully will be a completely different player next year

the fact Scully commands a spot Hawks best 22 says a lot

 

[Scotland]

I wouldn't say he is a better player now than at Hawthorn. He has more responsibility and more attention now, but what he does at Freo he did once for us. People just didn't see it when he played for us, because he was crowded out by other stars and he was young and we had no problems moving the ball. Brad Hill is Brad Hill... he only knows one way to play and that is run faster up and down the ground than everyone and then kick lace out.

He's a better player. Look at his stats, look at his b&f finishes etc. He left Hawthorn when he was 23, most of his career he was just a promising young player. He's now in his prime. Saying he's not a better player now is like saying Gunston isn't better than when he was with the Crows.

 

[Gralin]

I wouldn't say he is a better player now than at Hawthorn. He has more responsibility and more attention now, but what he does at Freo he did once for us. People just didn't see it when he played for us, because he was crowded out by other stars and he was young and we had no problems moving the ball. Brad Hill is Brad Hill... he only knows one way to play and that is run faster up and down the ground than everyone and then kick lace out.

He's gone up a notch or two

the fact Scully commands a spot Hawks best 22 says a lot

That you need runners in footy these days

 

[Luv_our_club]

He's a better player. Look at his stats, look at his b&f finishes etc. He left Hawthorn when he was 23, most of his career he was just a promising young player. He's now in his prime. Saying he's not a better player now is like saying Gunston isn't better than when he was with the Crows.

Comparing Gunston and Hill is not a good one.
BNF reflects his importance and rank in the team. At the Hawks he was way down the batting card.
.

Have a look at my posts over the last 4 years on Hill. I always knew how good he was, including posts when he left, and also posts in `most underrated player' threads on the main board.

I understand it took some other people time to realise what he does for a team. I agree his reputation has changed a lot. But you guys are not Hawks supporters watching him week in week out. I see him play now just as he played for us.


Note: he had a 4 month form slump at the Hawks, in 2016 i think, which affected the way some outsiders saw him.

 

[Scotland]

There's a difference between seeing potential in a player and seeing performance. Hill was fine at Hawthorn but he wasn't the player he is now. If he was capable of playing to the standard he is currently at 20 then he would have. Brisbane fans raved about how good Yeo is but there's no denying he's better now. Took him a few years at WC to hit his peak too. Natural for most players.

 

[WWSD]

With pick 76 in the 2016 National Draft Hawthorn select Mitchell Lewis from the Calder Cannons.

16 disposals - 6 marks (4 contested) - 3 goals - 2 behinds

 

[SSSSSS]

Found another big piece to the puzzle.

And for pick 76!

 

[4THAWN]

Hill had 37 @73%, 553m gained, yet he wasn't that damaging against us today. I'd take hendo's game for us over hill's game for freo.

 

[Franko Armani]

Not a bad looking player that Lewis kid huh... oh wait, he wasn’t a 1st rounder - let’s get rid of him. And Sicily for that matter. LOL.

How many clubs do you reckon have tried to poach G.Wright from the Hawks? 17?
LOL.

 

[Franko Armani]

That Hanrahan kid keeps popping up for 2-3 goals each week he’s played too, anyone know what pick he was?
How long until the main tone of this thread is “Hawthorn Board” ? That’s when you know they know we cometh again. LOL

 

[Franko Armani]

There's a difference between seeing potential in a player and seeing performance. Hill was fine at Hawthorn but he wasn't the player he is now. If he was capable of playing to the standard he is currently at 20 then he would have. Brisbane fans raved about how good Yeo is but there's no denying he's better now. Took him a few years at WC to hit his peak too. Natural for most players.

Played in 3 flags though. How many will he play at in Freo?

 

[Leeda]

The lads are performing nicely..they are swapping roles and learning a variety of positional
requirements whereby they learn both back and forth duties

 

[Vindicater]

Lewis looking very nice.

 

[Charlieboyblue]

Don't get too excited ya smug pack of fledglings....beat freo and out you trot

 

[bumsonseats]

Don't get too excited ya smug pack of fledglings....beat freo and out you trot

Win 6 games in 2 years.....and all of the sudden you are relevant again.
Please don’t change Carlton. We love you just as you are

 

[blue harvest]

Not a bad looking player that Lewis kid huh... oh wait, he wasn’t a 1st rounder - let’s get rid of him. And Sicily for that matter. LOL.

How many clubs do you reckon have tried to poach G.Wright from the Hawks? 17?
LOL.

I thought Mitchell Lewis was a joke pick after off loading Mitchell and Lewis for a bag of chips. Turns out it was legit, not bad value for 76.

 

[TallyHawk]

Don't get too excited ya smug pack of fledglings....beat freo and out you trot

By all means come in and contribute, it makes a great comparison. Your mob that have focused for over a decade on the elite end of the draft vs Hawks.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vindicater]

I thought Mitchell Lewis was a joke pick after off loading Mitchell and Lewis for a bag of chips. Turns out it was legit, not bad value for 76.

Looks very nice at the moment.

Next step will be next year after teams get an off-season to do some proper scouting on him.

From what I have seen I would back him in to turn out well but could struggle early next year with extra attention.