Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Vindicater]

Mitch Lewis Rising Star.

No youf.

I am confused?

You Hawks fans have spent alot of time in the past talking about how stupid the rising star award is (McGrath) and now you want to use it as a good thing.

Classic Hawthorne.

(Side note: Mitchell Lewis looking like a very good prospect and draft pick)

 

[Pessimistic]

Ah yes, that 8-9 record is showing how great the Hawks are.

Pretty much have every other team covered for success from a period 3 years to 100 years ago

 

[DapperDon]

Pretty much have every other team covered for success from a period 3 years to 100 years ago

Good old Hawks and using selective stats never gets old.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Good old Hawks and using selective stats never gets old.

'Selective Stats' not really required to prove a Hawks point in this case

So which is it Dapper? Are you a pre-schooler or centurion?

Or are you just one of the 99% of the population that say "Hawthorn is the Most Successful Team since I was alive"?

 

[DapperDon]

'Selective Stats' not really required to prove a Hawks point in this case

So which is it Dapper? Are you a pre-schooler or centurion?

Or are you just one of the 99% of the population that say "Hawthorn is the Most Successful Team since I was alive"?

Hawthorn being the most successful team since I was alive doesn't make them the most successful team.

Surely even a pre-schooler can understand that.

 

[KermitJagger]

Hawthorn being the most successful team since I was alive doesn't make them the most successful team.

Surely even a pre-schooler can understand that.

Just because I'm drinking orange juice doesn't actually mean that I'm drinking orange juice.

 

[DapperDon]

Just because I'm drinking orange juice doesn't actually mean that I'm drinking orange juice.

ok

 

[Pessimistic]

Just because I'm drinking orange juice doesn't actually mean that I'm drinking orange juice.

What brand

 

[MightyHawks]

Hawthorn being the most successful team since I was alive doesn't make them the most successful team.

Surely even a pre-schooler can understand that.

The Mongolian Empire was very impressive - certainly more successful than any Australian Empire

Ran into some Mongolians last week, I asked them about what it was like living in Mongolia and all they wanted to talk about was the 13th Century

I was interested in the health and education and living standards of people and Mongolia - was pretty good in 1257 apparently!!

 

[SSSSSS]

The Mongolian Empire was very impressive - certainly more successful than any Australian Empire

Ran into some Mongolians last week, I asked them about what it was like living in Mongolia and all they wanted to talk about was the 13th Century

I was interested in the health and education and living standards of people and Mongolia - was pretty good in 1257 apparently!!

Pre-gunpowder era flags don't count minnow.

 

[DapperDon]

The Mongolian Empire was very impressive - certainly more successful than any Australian Empire

Ran into some Mongolians last week, I asked them about what it was like living in Mongolia and all they wanted to talk about was the 13th Century

I was interested in the health and education and living standards of people and Mongolia - was pretty good in 1257 apparently!!

ok

 

[Scotland]

I saw this thread (predictably) on the top of the front page on my phone last night. Scrolled through the last two or three pages very quickly just to count avatars and I reckon it was 50/50 Essendon/Hawthorn if not 60/40. What's that about? There's more Essendon presence than there was when Essendon beat Hawthorn.

Tim O'Brien was good in the 2/3 of the Geelong game I saw. Is he still getting de-listed at the end of the year?

 

[MightyHawks]

ok

We talked some footy as well. I did ask the Mongolians who they followed in the footy

 

[DapperDon]

We talked some footy as well. I did ask the Mongolians who they followed in the footy

Obviously Hawks if they are just jumping on recently.

 

[Sirlemsip]

I saw this thread (predictably) on the top of the front page on my phone last night. Scrolled through the last two or three pages very quickly just to count avatars and I reckon it was 50/50 Essendon/Hawthorn if not 60/40. What's that about? There's more Essendon presence than there was when Essendon beat Hawthorn.

Tim O'Brien was good in the 2/3 of the Geelong game I saw. Is he still getting de-listed at the end of the year?

Has just about earned another contract based on last 3 games I would have thought.

At the very least has become reasonable trade bait if we wanted to go after any Adelaide/PA players at the end of the year.

 

[cryptor]

Just did some catch up reading on this thread and I think you all need to have a good hard look at yourselves.

About 5 pages back there are a few posts about the kind of hole that would be left if Clarko was to leave Hawthorn. Not one of you thought to make a joke or reference about punching a hole in a plaster wall. Bitterly disappointing.

 

[hawkman]

I saw this thread (predictably) on the top of the front page on my phone last night. Scrolled through the last two or three pages very quickly just to count avatars and I reckon it was 50/50 Essendon/Hawthorn if not 60/40. What's that about? There's more Essendon presence than there was when Essendon beat Hawthorn.

Tim O'Brien was good in the 2/3 of the Geelong game I saw. Is he still getting de-listed at the end of the year?

I think he has been ok most of the year anyway. Even before the last few weeks there would be others more likely to go before him

 

[Sirlemsip]

I think he has been ok most of the year anyway. Even before the last few weeks there would be others more likely to go before him

Yep, those would include: Roughy, Poppy, Birchall, Shoenmakers, Mohr (rookie), Langford (rookie)

Add in a few players who will be traded, e.g. Smith... you don't want to have too much turnover in a playing list.

I'd much prefer to hang on to TOB than Mirra (for example).

 

[parsons nose]

For the scholarly minded amongst you Massy and Thaler, have researched the NFL draft strategies. They concluded that the best strategy is NOT to trade in first round draft picks as first round draft picks are overvalued. But instead accumulate second and third round picks as there is much more value to be found in later picks.

 

[MightyHawks]

Obviously Hawks if they are just jumping on recently.

Actually 2 of them go for Melbourne and 1 for the Bombers - clubs that used to be great and have lost relevance really resonated with them

 

[hk89]

I am confused?

You Hawks fans have spent alot of time in the past talking about how stupid the rising star award is (McGrath) and now you want to use it as a good thing.

Classic Hawthorne.

Classic Essendone poster - unable to look at the nuances. We can like the rising star and still think they got it wrong with McGrath. How far has McGrath's star risen since then? How is he tracking compared to other vote getters that year like Hipwood and Curnow? Both of those look like they are more likely to be future stars than McGrath for mine. Burton hasn't moved on much either, and McGrath was certainly very clearly better than him in 2018. Burton still hasn't eclipsed the numbers he produced in his first full year in the system and has been on an AFL list for 4 seasons now. Maybe Hawthorn and Bomber fans were both right.

The main problem with the rising star is not the nominations, it is having a bunch of industry knobs - often with vested interests - voting on a group of players who they may have seen almost none of over the course of the year, and even if they had, are unlikely to remember details of games played early in the season when they vote at the end. Should throw out the current system and have votes made after each round by people who watched the full game. You'd be less likely to get results like McGrath and Palmer under that situation.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I saw this thread (predictably) on the top of the front page on my phone last night. Scrolled through the last two or three pages very quickly just to count avatars and I reckon it was 50/50 Essendon/Hawthorn if not 60/40. What's that about? There's more Essendon presence than there was when Essendon beat Hawthorn.

Tim O'Brien was good in the 2/3 of the Geelong game I saw. Is he still getting de-listed at the end of the year?

Easily his best game, Hasnt even cracked the potential we think he had and majorly been a dissapointment but he gets another year if he wants it. Just does enough to get by

Kind of inbewteen Andrew McDougall and Brent Staker. Where you know somewhere there's a 150 gamer there and a solid contributor, Just exactly where and how is the issue

 

[hk89]

I saw this thread (predictably) on the top of the front page on my phone last night. Scrolled through the last two or three pages very quickly just to count avatars and I reckon it was 50/50 Essendon/Hawthorn if not 60/40. What's that about? There's more Essendon presence than there was when Essendon beat Hawthorn.

Tim O'Brien was good in the 2/3 of the Geelong game I saw. Is he still getting de-listed at the end of the year?

Zero chance of that right now I would have thought. Even if you don't rate him that highly, he provides flexibility as a depth player that others do not due to his experience in playing at both ends of the ground. Biggest change this season has been his ability to hold marks. Previously would get to plenty, but never grab them , and often the ball would spill to opposition which had him as a regular whipping boy on our board. Now he's a good mark, still a decent kick and improving each week as his confidence grows. Not yet clear how far his improvement trajectory can take him. When he's played down back, he's been helped by the fact that Sicily, Impey and Frawley have all been very solid around him.

 

[Scotland]

Fwiw question based on Hawthorn fans putting him on the block, not me or anyone else.

 

[Vindicater]

Classic Essendone poster - unable to look at the nuances. We can like the rising star and still think they got it wrong with McGrath. How far has McGrath's star risen since then? How is he tracking compared to other vote getters that year like Hipwood and Curnow? Both of those look like they are more likely to be future stars than McGrath for mine. Burton hasn't moved on much either, and McGrath was certainly very clearly better than him in 2018. Burton still hasn't eclipsed the numbers he produced in his first full year in the system and has been on an AFL list for 4 seasons now. Maybe Hawthorn and Bomber fans were both right.

The main problem with the rising star is not the nominations, it is having a bunch of industry knobs - often with vested interests - voting on a group of players who they may have seen almost none of over the course of the year, and even if they had, are unlikely to remember details of games played early in the season when they vote at the end. Should throw out the current system and have votes made after each round by people who watched the full game. You'd be less likely to get results like McGrath and Palmer under that situation.

Ahh... the nuances.

How could I forget.