Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Lance Uppercut]

I said at the start of the year we were a top-4 team, but losing Mitchell dropped us back into the 4-12 grouping.

That's been played out this year - good enough to match the top-4 in spite of the injuries (2-2, and could have been 4-0 with a bit of luck).

Against Brisbane we really should have been 5 goals up at half-time, had dominated the game and generated more than double the easy scoring chances of Brisbane, but our horrendous goal-kicking was keeping them in it - and from early in the 3rd Brisbane firstly matched, then started to beat us on field, and their great accuracy gave them full value. We still lack a little 'class' amongst the list, but clearly are just as competitive as anyone else.

Bad luck with multiple in-game injuries (two games we led by >20 points and lost) is all that has separated us from the top-8. Every team has injuries, and days of bad goal-kicking - we aren't good enough to have a bad game and still win anymore - but then all teams are in the same situation now.

Another season with (hopefully) no major injuries and we should be around the top-4 mark again. Is that good enough to 'succeed'? Given there aren't really any great teams at the moment, it could be.

We have moved on most of our senior players, with those remaining generally in periphery roles now.

So with Mitchell you'd be top 4?!

It's just injuries. Cos no other club deals with them.

Glorious

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Natural goalkicker, 8 touch, 4 goal type player. Excellent mark for size. I compared as a draftee to Jimmy bartel , minus the endurance and work rate, similar in ability to win contests on ground and in air.

Not super athletic, seems to just get lucky all the time and always in dangerous spots.

Needs a lot of seasoning and fitness before AFL ready, but his style could translate to early impact.

Kicking a few VFL goals most weeks, kicked 5 on the weekend.

Considering there isn't really a 4 goal a game type player in the AFL, with Buddy and Kennedy ageing, this is a bold claim.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Lions had less scoring shots, less inside 50s, less disposals and less clearances.
Hawks kicked 7.18, not saying the Lions aren't better at the moment but we played well enough today to win we just didn't take our chances

Which was indicative many times of Hawthorn over their 3-peat and WC over the last two years.

There is more than one way to win. Good ball movement and accuracy is one.

 

[Gralin]

Which was indicative many times of Hawthorn over their 3-peat and WC over the last two years.

There is more than one way to win. Good ball movement and accuracy is one.

For sure, Lion's were much more efficient going inside 50, which they should be given where they are at compared to us.
I was responding to the suggestion that Clarko was out coached.

Fagan and Hodgey have got him in the past but yesterday was not one of those times where our game plan was the issue, we went out with a plan that restricted Brisbane's scoring opportunities and gave us enough to win, the difference was conversion in front of goal, Brisbane got that right and won, we missed easy shots and paid the price.

 

[Richo83]

Eh, I'm not seeing what Hawthorn fans are seeing. A midfield of O'Meara, Mitchell, Shiels and... a bunch of outside runners still doesn't scare many teams in the top four. In 2016 and 2018, they made the top four, only to be bounced out as teams exposed their lack of depth in the midfield. They also got 50 goals from Breust and Gunston, which I'm not sure will ever happen again. Nor is 38 from Roughead likely.

Maybe, maybe they make the top four next year. But do they do much there?

 

[Richo83]

Lost the key stat (scoreboard) yesterday, but signs are excellent for the future.

Clarko is doing a wonderful job teaching the kids how to stick by a strict defensive zone, let alone do all the important 1%ers important to his style of play.

Forwardline needs an injection of x-factor that should come from Walker next year, but it’s our midfield that excites me most. Mitchell, Coniglio, Worpedo, Shiels and Scully will do wonders with a full pre-season working together.

Need a second tall to compliment Lewis next year, but let’s see what the offseason brings.

Hawks fans who proclaim their team to have a bright future on the back of signing a player who hasn't even come should head to New York and talk to knicks fans about how their summer has gone. And yes, Richmond fans also did that last year. It's silly. Every team in the league could do with another pre-season together. And all of them will.

As for Walker, I've been hearing about how the hawks' seconds and recruiting is just the best since 2015. None of it has materialised that much. Walker is 188cm and the team needs a KPF.

 

[matey]

Amazing how views and opinions re the Hawks list management/drafting strategy can vary so much after a win or a loss. I prefer to believe in Clarko one of the greatest coaches ever in VFL/AFL history. Straight from the coaches mouth yesterday.

"We've been to five Grand Finals in my time here and won four of them. What that told us is when we did get to the big dance our game was resilient enough to be successful when it mattered,"
"Right at the moment we're yet to solidify that in our own mind, both with our personnel and our method, but it will come.
"We've seen that with the Brisbane side and we're not too far away."

This man does not speak s##t and he is confident that it’s coming together. He doesn’t coach just to make finals he coaches for more silverware!

 

[matey]

Hawks fans who proclaim their team to have a bright future on the back of signing a player who hasn't even come should head to New York and talk to knicks fans about how their summer has gone. And yes, Richmond fans also did that last year. It's silly. Every team in the league could do with another pre-season together. And all of them will.

As for Walker, I've been hearing about how the hawks' seconds and recruiting is just the best since 2015. None of it has materialised that much. Walker is 188cm and the team needs a KPF.

You do realise Hawks had a rising star nomination last week. So I guess this KPF doesn’t count because he was not a top 10 draft pick!

 

[Richo83]

You do realise Hawks had a rising star nomination last week. So I guess this KPF doesn’t count because he was not a top 10 draft pick!

He's not a KPF because he's not KPF height. Every KPP in the league will be taller than him. And I don't really care about rising star nominees, plenty have faded into obscurity and the rules about qualification are weird. Clarke was arguably as impressive, even more so, but was ineligible because he played too many games? It was also a bit of a slim pickings week, with most teams winning games due to established stars.

 

[stfan]

"We've seen that with the Brisbane side and we're not too far away."

You will need to improve a heap then as the Lions team is full of young players who have huge upside and will most likely become a much better team yet. They are a long way off their ceiling just with the players that they already have on their list..

 

[Slysh]

He's not a KPF because he's not KPF height. Every KPP in the league will be taller than him. And I don't really care about rising star nominees, plenty have faded into obscurity and the rules about qualification are weird. Clarke was arguably as impressive, even more so, but was ineligible because he played too many games? It was also a bit of a slim pickings week, with most teams winning games due to established stars.

Are you saying Mitch Lewis isn't KPP height? Because that is who Matey was talking about... Good to know Richmond have 0 key forwards if that's the case...

 

[Gralin]

He's not a KPF because he's not KPF height. Every KPP in the league will be taller than him. And I don't really care about rising star nominees, plenty have faded into obscurity and the rules about qualification are weird. Clarke was arguably as impressive, even more so, but was ineligible because he played too many games? It was also a bit of a slim pickings week, with most teams winning games due to established stars.

I would have thought Lewis was tall enough to play KPF

 

[Pessimistic]

He's not a KPF because he's not KPF height. Every KPP in the league will be taller than him. And I don't really care about rising star nominees, plenty have faded into obscurity and the rules about qualification are weird. Clarke was arguably as impressive, even more so, but was ineligible because he played too many games? It was also a bit of a slim pickings week, with most teams winning games due to established stars.

You might need to tell us who clarke is/was

 

[Dede]

Puopolo has 7 goals for the year
Bruest half the goals as last year
The captain is out of form and 30!
Big boy is over 30 in good form but the end will come fast.
Jager knee is shot and plays hurt..
Henderson great season but over 30.

Lewis missed a 15m goal yesterday !! White hope!
How couins doesn't get a game

 

[stfan]

You might need to tell us who clarke is/was

I would guess he means Hunter Clark who has had a Hawks poster describe him as a spud. Played a very good game last week. In his last 5 games, 4 have been excellent.

Played 15 games last year and so is ineligible.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks fans who proclaim their team to have a bright future on the back of signing a player who hasn't even come should head to New York and talk to knicks fans about how their summer has gone. And yes, Richmond fans also did that last year. It's silly. Every team in the league could do with another pre-season together. And all of them will.

As for Walker, I've been hearing about how the hawks' seconds and recruiting is just the best since 2015. None of it has materialised that much. Walker is 188cm and the team needs a KPF.

Most are basing it on clarkson repeating what hes done in the past. Theres no sign of him going crazy sheedy which is the bunch of straws some posters are clinging to.

As for ‘successful’ this team will peak around 2022, seven yers after the last of the three flags.
Its been eight years since the last of geelongs three, sixteen since brisbanes. If richmond or west coast produce another two then thy could speak up

Otherwise hawks just need to keep making finals, maybe a flag and you can all stfu

 

[Pessimistic]

Puopolo has 7 goals for the year
Bruest half the goals as last year
The captain is out of form and 30!
Big boy is over 30 in good form but the end will come fast.
Jager knee is shot and plays hurt..
Henderson great season but over 30.

Lewis missed a 15m goal yesterday !! White hope!
How couins doesn't get a game

So our veterans wont be as ‘missed’ as people are claiming?

 

[Slysh]

Puopolo has 7 goals for the year
Bruest half the goals as last year
The captain is out of form and 30!
Big boy is over 30 in good form but the end will come fast.
Jager knee is shot and plays hurt..
Henderson great season but over 30.

Lewis missed a 15m goal yesterday !! White hope!
How couins doesn't get a game

Jaeger has played almost every game for 2 seasons and yet his knee is shot...

Lewis missed a sitter but has put together a month of really good footy before that.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Not sure which group of supporters were more delusional, Hawk fans thinking that after getting O'Meara and Mitchell they would very quickly be genuine premiership contenders again. Or Melbourne fans thinking we no longer suck and blow and the same time

 

[matey]

You will need to improve a heap then as the Lions team is full of young players who have huge upside and will most likely become a much better team yet. They are a long way off their ceiling just with the players that they already have on their list..

So you think that Clarko speaks s##t. Yeah we got it you know a lot more about how it all works then Clarko. If that’s the case maybe go down to your club and give them some tips.

 

[Dede]

Jaeger has played almost every game for 2 seasons and yet his knee is shot...

Lewis missed a sitter but has put together a month of really good footy before that.

Came from Jaegers mouth that the knee is bad and Needs to be managed

 

[Eternal Schism]

Not sure which group of supporters were more delusional, Hawk fans thinking that after getting O'Meara and Mitchell they would very quickly be genuine premiership contenders again. Or Melbourne fans thinking we no longer suck and blow and the same time

True Dees fans always expect the bubble to burst at some stage when we are doing well. Seattle Mariners fans got that this year too, the illusion of coming out of the wilderness then 'blam' here is a reality check for you!

If Hawthorns doom and gloom years with half the team struggling to perform still sees them in potential finals contention then I'd like that brand of disappointment for once, rather than rocking up to each game ready to shake my head all day.

 

[Dede]

So our veterans wont be as ‘missed’ as people are claiming?

Be worse off in fact as clarko doesn't rate couins,Morrison and co

 

[Slysh]

Came from Jaegers mouth that the knee is bad and Needs to be managed

And has been managed well enough for him to play most games for 2 years.

 

[rei154]

He's not a KPF because he's not KPF height. Every KPP in the league will be taller than him. And I don't really care about rising star nominees, plenty have faded into obscurity and the rules about qualification are weird. Clarke was arguably as impressive, even more so, but was ineligible because he played too many games? It was also a bit of a slim pickings week, with most teams winning games due to established stars.

You could argue the same thing about Worpel this year; played 11 last and is arguably one of the more influential players in his age bracket. A rising star nom is a rising star nom.