Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[WWSD]

Nah, he is a very, very good footballer regardless of where he plays next year.
Most people don’t have blinkers on like Hawks fans

That’s not how Tom Mitchell was viewed by opposition supporters when he was at the Swans.

 

[stfan]

Without Free Agency, Hawthorn keeps Franklin, Young, Ellis, Suckling, Brown, Murphy. Essentially Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis too.

They don't get Frawley though.

Free Agency has hurt Hawthorn more than any other club. If you believe otherwise, perhaps you listen to "Jonno Brown".

When I wrote "Without Free Agency the Hawks would be well and truly cooked" I was talking future tense. Post after post in this thread is along the lines of the Hawks will be good next year because the Hawks will gain Cogs as a FA for nothing and that the Hawks will regain Mitchell next year.

If there was no to get a player like Cogs you would have to trade for him at his full market worth. Now if Cogs does in fact try to get to the Hawks, with FA I suspect GWS will match on the basis that FA compo will be less than true market value and so you will then trade for him at at a discount for him, but not ridiculously so.

To get Cogs for free seems to me to be the dream of some as to how the Hawks will get better.

 

[stfan]

That’s not how Tom Mitchell was viewed by opposition supporters when he was at the Swans.

Not sure about that many wanted him and certainly many clubs were chasing him. Fans were divided as they virtually always are about most players.

This article is a pretty fair summation of the interest in him by the clubs.

How Tom Mitchell became a trade bargain

Inside the week that saw the Hawks swoop on the ball-magnet mid

www.afl.com.au

The Hawks certainly had at least nominal competition for Mitchell's signature.

Gold Coast, which was about to reluctantly trade midfield stars Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn) and Dion Prestia (Richmond), met with him and offered more money than Hawthorn.

But Mitchell was set on a move to Melbourne to be closer to family.

Five or six other Victorian clubs pursued him to varying degrees, with Carlton and Essendon believed to have been among them.

That interest would have been even greater if clubs had foreseen Mitchell's stunning transformation from a very good player into a fully-fledged star.

 

[H2F]

I don’t get the criticism. When Brisbane won their three peat it’s taken them 16 years to come again. We lost almost all our stars and are very competitive and finished top 4 last year.

Our strategy has proven itself to rebuild quicker than any other club who won dynasty flags and by a mile. Those saying we have an old list are clueless. Yes we have some older guys but most are not even performing well enough to get games and are just more onfield coaches. Give us another year or so and we will be contending again.

 

[MightyHawks]

I guess we will see, but I think you are off on that one. My sources within the club have said that our salary cap is in very good shape going forward and shedding Shiel, Scully and not paying Setterfield what he was asking for has made a massive difference.


You think we will let one of our best players and an integral player in building our clubs culture go to the Hawks, for a potentially late first round pick? I think you're living in a dream land and there's a lot more to our Chairman's quote than you want to believe.

Would be interesting if Coniglio said no worries I'm off to the draft and got picked up by say Carlton

Giants would get terrific compensation then

Probably doesn't help you re-sign players after being at GWS for 2-3 years either

If GWS won't help you get to the club of your choice after years of good service then you may as well go home at the first opportunity

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out

 

[Scotland]

That’s not how Tom Mitchell was viewed by opposition supporters when he was at the Swans.

Tom Mitchell was a relatively painless trade for pick 14. Coniglio has been the talk of $1.2m free agency offers. Not really comparable scenarios.

 

[Hawkk]

That’s not how Tom Mitchell was viewed by opposition supporters when he was at the Swans.

In Tom Mitchell’s last game for Sydney, the 2016 grand final, he had 26 possessions and kicked 2 goals.

Didn’t stop posters from claiming that he was the Swans 3rd midfielder and easily replaceable in the 2017 preseason

 

[WWSD]

In Tom Mitchell’s last game for Sydney, the 2016 grand final, he had 26 possessions and kicked 2 goals.

Didn’t stop posters from claiming that he was the Swans 3rd midfielder and easily replaceable in the 2017 preseason

*6th*

 

[TallyHawk]

Alright, now I'm 100% sure you're lying. I watched that game live can very clearly recall several aerial contests between Hawkins and Frawley, most of which were won by the latter.

It's pretty sad when you're so determined to make your point that you have to lie about your best defender going to Geelong's worst forward for most of the game. I'd move on if I were you.

Perhaps you should pay more attention.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

In Tom Mitchell’s last game for Sydney, the 2016 grand final, he had 26 possessions and kicked 2 goals.

Didn’t stop posters from claiming that he was the Swans 3rd midfielder and easily replaceable in the 2017 preseason

He was probably their 3rd midfielder though?

Hawthorn supporters have such a victim complex, Jesus Christ.

 

[WWSD]

He was probably their 3rd midfielder though?

Hawthorn supporters have such a victim complex, Jesus Christ.

Says the poster who’s in every Hawthorn related thread.

The mainboard come October is going to be epic.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

When I wrote "Without Free Agency the Hawks would be well and truly cooked" I was talking future tense. Post after post in this thread is along the lines of the Hawks will be good next year because the Hawks will gain Cogs as a FA for nothing and that the Hawks will regain Mitchell next year.

If there was no to get a player like Cogs you would have to trade for him at his full market worth. Now if Cogs does in fact try to get to the Hawks, with FA I suspect GWS will match on the basis that FA compo will be less than true market value and so you will then trade for him at at a discount for him, but not ridiculously so.

To get Cogs for free seems to me to be the dream of some as to how the Hawks will get better.

I think given how even the season is, our bad luck with in game injuries and ability against the 'top 4' when we played them, along with reduced reliance on our older players compared to 2017 - along with getting a better fitness base into Wingard, Worpel and Lewis there is plenty of reason to believe we will be substantially better next year just from Mitchell returning.

I think we will be in the 4-12 mark next year without any additions. Adding Coniglio and Patton should provide sufficient depth that we can better manage rotations, return our forwards to the forward line and be better able to cope with injuries to enable a top-4 push.

Our squad is still rather shallow, with a number of mature players not good enough to consistently play a role at AFL level.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Source?

Will believe it when it happens. I hope we take good care of Patton if he wants to stay, being a foundation player.

Just like last year, every man and his dog has heard of the Giants salary cap squeeze and another Salary dump(Patton) to allow them to keep others.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Would be interesting if Coniglio said no worries I'm off to the draft and got picked up by say Carlton

Giants would get terrific compensation then

Probably doesn't help you re-sign players after being at GWS for 2-3 years either

If GWS won't help you get to the club of your choice after years of good service then you may as well go home at the first opportunity

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out

Name a single player we haven't allowed to get to their club of choice in our eight years of existence?

Actually, name just one player since Nick Stevens (other than Luke Ball) who couldn't get to his club of chocie via a trade and went into the draft?

You're clutching at straws my friend.

If Coniglio wishes to play at Hawthorn, then he will get there, but I'd be shocked if the Hawks didn't have to make a trade happen as I have little doubt we would intend to match. He's a restricted free agent and we have the right to do so.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Just like last year, every man and his dog has heard of the Giants salary cap squeeze and another Salary dump(Patton) to allow them to keep others.

Just like every man and his dog told us Kelly was off to North/Carlton/Saints. And every man and his dog know about the Hawks dodgy cap dealings for close to thirteen years.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Says the poster who’s in every Hawthorn related thread.

The mainboard come October is going to be epic.

I'm very nervous about a key forward who's had 3 knee recos in 4 years going to Hawthorn.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm very nervous about a key forward who's had 3 knee recos in 4 years going to Hawthorn.

You’ve been nervous about Hawthorn for a few years. Since about 2015 from my calculations.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just like every man and his dog told us Kelly was off to North/Carlton/Saints. And every man and his dog know about the Hawks dodgy cap dealings for close to thirteen years.

Ha! I love this.

Players taking less than market value to win multiple flags = dodgy cap dealings.

Tell me again how all these Giants players are “taking less to stay together”.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Our strategy has proven itself to rebuild quicker than any other club who won dynasty flags and by a mile. Those saying we have an old list are clueless.

I'm really surprised to see Hawthorn supporters persisting with the 'fastest rebuild in history' line. The age of Hawthorn teams has been more or less static for some time.

2013 26.01 2nd oldest team
2014 25.85 4th
2015 26.82 1st
2016 26.49 2nd
2017 26.14 2nd
2018 26.13 1st
2019 26.43 1st

Saturday's team was Hawthorn's oldest since 2016, and the 15th oldest in club history.

The Hawks are in a holding pattern, without the results of yore.

Most over-30's in a team:

Over 30's	Club	Year	Round
9	Fi	1946	1
9	Co	1920	9
8	Ha	2019	19
8	Ha	2019	17
8	NM	2016	19
8	NM	2016	17
8	NM	2016	13
8	NM	2016	12
8	NM	2016	11
8	NM	2016	10
8	Ge	2015	15
8	Ha	1996	22
8	Ha	1996	21
8	Ha	1996	18
8	Ha	1996	17
8	Ha	1996	16
8	Ha	1996	15
8	Ha	1996	14
8	Ha	1996	10
8	Ha	1996	9
8	Ha	1996	4
8	Fi	1946	4
8	Fi	1946	2
8	Fi	1945	14
8	Fi	1945	11
8	Co	1920	14
8	Co	1920	6
8	Co	1920	5

 

[MightyHawks]

Name a single player we haven't allowed to get to their club of choice in our eight years of existence?

Actually, name just one player since Nick Stevens (other than Luke Ball) who couldn't get to his club of chocie via a trade and went into the draft?

You're clutching at straws my friend.

If Coniglio wishes to play at Hawthorn, then he will get there, but I'd be shocked if the Hawks didn't have to make a trade happen as I have little doubt we would intend to match. He's a restricted free agent and we have the right to do so.

I'm not clutching at straws at all

Coniglio is one of many players that we may be interested in recruiting at the end of the year

As I said will be interesting to see how it plays out

From your perspective, not sure why you are so concerned about Conigli, he is just one of many Giants players who is considering leaving your club when his contract expires

 

[Walshawk]

Name a single player we haven't allowed to get to their club of choice in our eight years of existence?

Actually, name just one player since Nick Stevens (other than Luke Ball) who couldn't get to his club of chocie via a trade and went into the draft?

You're clutching at straws my friend.

If Coniglio wishes to play at Hawthorn, then he will get there, but I'd be shocked if the Hawks didn't have to make a trade happen as I have little doubt we would intend to match. He's a restricted free agent and we have the right to do so.

You can only match if you have salary cap room.

 

[QuietB]

History also shows that nothing lasts forever and any past deeds have little bearing on the future.

So the history of a well run club compared to the history of a poorly run club is irrelevant?

The history of a rich club compared to the history of a poor club is irrelevant?

The history of having done something before has no bearing on if you can do it again?

 

[Sonny Hayes]

How opposition supporters can rule this strategy off before we see the finished product when we are one of the only teams to try and rebuild this way in the modern game.

We have seen countless teams fail trying to rebuild through the Draft, whether this works or not i am totally okay with the club attempting to rebuild on the run instead of just settling for a trip down the ladder and being shit.

 

[QuietB]

I don’t get the criticism. When Brisbane won their three peat it’s taken them 16 years to come again. We lost almost all our stars and are very competitive and finished top 4 last year.

Our strategy has proven itself to rebuild quicker than any other club who won dynasty flags and by a mile. Those saying we have an old list are clueless. Yes we have some older guys but most are not even performing well enough to get games and are just more onfield coaches. Give us another year or so and we will be contending again.

Great post. For reference this is what the Hawks have lost in the last 3 years alone;

Forwards - Rioli, Rough (not officially but may as well be), Hale

Midfield - Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Hill

Backs - Gibson, Lake, Birchall (again not officially but close enough)

Also lost Buddy but that was Over 5 years ago now.

That is insane quality to lose in three years.

AND THE HAWKS ARE STILL COMPETITIVE.

Ps. I deliberately listed Hodge as a mid to give all the opposition sooks something new (old) to bleat on about.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

You can only match if you have salary cap room.

This old chestnut.....

You think we would cut our salary cap so thin, that we wouldn't be able to match an offer from the Hawks (whose fans have admitted will be lower than that of the likes of Carlton and the Saints as apparently Coniglio will be willing to take a paycut to play with the apparent best coach of the modern era)? Our list management staff are much, much smarter than you give them credit for.