Can we develop a premiership defence?

[Jack is Back]

Many good judges believe the first step towards becoming a genuine top 4 contender is to establish a quality group of defenders. The imminent retirement of Truck and my lack of confidence that Radar will reach 300 games mean there are spots to fill.

1) We need a gun tall defender to shut down the opposition's gun tall forward = Talia .

2) We need a reliable second tall defender who can provide some rebound. The closest we have is Hartigan, we have to play him for the rest of the season and hope he develops into this role. He has played 6 good games out of his first 8 games in AFL. There will be pain but "suck it up".

The other alternative is too find a free agent or trade (Frawley?)

3) We need a third tall defender that can play on talls and smalls = Otten. It is time to bring him back and play him till it hurts.

4) We need a running half back flanker / loose man in defence = Smith .
Most teams play an extra man in defence for part or all of every game. This is close to the most important player in the team. Anyone can get heaps of touches (cough, Jaensch, cough) but you need someone who can hurt the opposition on the rebound. They also need to know when to mark and when to go third man up (cough, Reilly and Jaensch, cough). If they are manned up they have to know how to defend (cough, you guessed it, cough) and when to roll off their opponent to go third man up. Brodie Smith has been fantastic in this role this season, WTF wasn't he used in this role last year?

5) We need a reliable small defender(s) to shut down the opposition's gun small forward(s) = Brown and Laird .These guys have played only played 54 games between them. They were so good last year that we get frustrated if they put in a poor game. In 2 year's time they will be gun defenders, just keep playing them (in defence).

6) Finally we need a second medium / small defender who can share the loose man duties with Brodie. IMHO the poor defensive skills of Radar and MJ disqualify them but at least MJ is improving in this area (coming from a low base = NaBA). Hopefully this will be Hendo but we will hardly see any of him this year and he may be gone next year. I think that Laird could also play this role and to a lesser extent Brown (could vB take the role of a lock down defender?). Sam Shaw was tried in this role a couple of years ago but his disposal is not up to scratch. From our current list the most likely candidate is CEY but once again he needs to improve his disposal.

I believe we need to play Talia, Hartigan, Laird, Brown and Smith in the back 6/7 every game until the end of the year.

What do other's think?

 

[DD#23]

I think everything you've written is completely obvious and essential.

Hartigan got towelled up on the weekend but it was his 8th game. 8th. Will prove to be one of many good learning experiences he'll get along the way, I think this time next year he'll be well on his way to monster status. Will also need to work on his decision making with ball in hand, but that will come with confidence I think.

Brown was disappointing on the weekend too, but has been very good in most matches up until now. He'll be a very good small for us.

 

[Magma]

absolutely agree with the op. hartigan will bulk up a bit, it is easy to forget sometimes just how young and inexperienced at top level some of these guys are. of course we've taken an absolute beating in terms of players lost back there recently and we've done extremely well to bounce back to the standard we have.

 

[fabs33]

What do other's think?

I think you need some cough syrup.

But I agree with everything you wrote.

 

[Allefgib]

Im with you jack.

The other 2 for this year should come from otten truck and special j. I think matty has earnt the chance to prove he can be that second rebounder. Worth the risk to invest in him as well given how potent our ball movement can then become.

 

[PCORF]

Almost did in 2012. But since then the team has been bickery and inconsistent.

 

[Vader]

I think Talia, Smith & Laird make a very promising core group. The jury is still very much out on Hartigan, Brown, Otten, Hendo - and doubly so for Jaensch.

 

[sbenno]

A strong defence is definitely a key part of a premiership, but personnel are only half the problem.

Look at hawthorn for example - they have scratched together a defensive line up through trades and free agency. As individuals, 1 for 1, their key defenders are not much to write home about.

What they do brilliantly is defend as a team. They have an outstanding zone, and their midfield works hard to get back and defend.

Even great defenders can look bad if the team forward of them leaks like a sieve, and a team with poor key defenders can defend well if their structure is water tight.

Both aspects are important.

 

[skoobydoo]

I think Talia, Smith & Laird make a very promising core group. The jury is still very much out on Hartigan, Brown, Otten, Hendo - and doubly so for Jaensch.

Yep. IMHO what Hartigan has shown in a handful of games means the ink is wet on his card stamp.

 

[Vader]

Yep. IMHO what Hartigan has shown in a handful of games means the ink is wet on his card stamp.

Don't take that comment about the jury being out as being a negative. He's definitely shown a lot in the few games he's played, though he did have his colours lowered badly on Saturday by one of the league's worst players. All I'm saying is that he may or may not make it in the long term - I think we need to give him more opportunities before a decision is made either way. He's not a definite "yes", equally, he's not a definite "no".

 

[betterthanu]

absolutely agree with the op. hartigan will bulk up a bit,.

He will have to eat Truck to get any bigger than he is.

 

[knobby]

good analysis
Battersby and Kelly for development as well

 

[Jack is Back]

A strong defence is definitely a key part of a premiership, but personnel are only half the problem.

Look at hawthorn for example - they have scratched together a defensive line up through trades and free agency. As individuals, 1 for 1, their key defenders are not much to write home about.

What they do brilliantly is defend as a team. They have an outstanding zone, and their midfield works hard to get back and defend.

Even great defenders can look bad if the team forward of them leaks like a sieve, and a team with poor key defenders can defend well if their structure is water tight.

Both aspects are important.

I agree that Hawthorn are an excellent example of an first class defensive unit. They are not all stars (for example Lake, Schoenmakers, Birchall and Suckling all have deficiencies) but they work well as a unit. The key is their ability to run the ball out of defence. The same applies to Geelong. If they are playing an extra man in defence, do you leave Enright, Mackie, Taylor or Bartel loose? Probably Mackie but he was All Australian.

IMHO we need to develop more weapons like Brodie Smith. He could be a very good midfielder but I doubt whether Dougie or Thommo could play his role in defence. If Jaensch can improve his defensive actions then he could be a long term solution (Reilly not so much) but he does sometimes get lost. Just watch him when he is the extra man, he is often caught out in the wrong spot whereas Brodie Smith knows exactly where to go to make it difficult for the opposition. Hendo was very promising at the end of last year but it is still early days. It might also be a solution to where we play our captain.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Agree with the OP.

On to more pressing matters...Is the penthouse available again this year?

 

[The Karma Bus]

Pretty well right..
A few of them are definites, people need to have patience with Laird and Brown..
They're still so young back there, can see them being damn good smaller backs in a few years with experience..

They've started their careers well, we know what they can do, we need to accept a few blips here and there and play through it..
There's been a few lower periods but nothing terrible, especially for a 20 and 21 year old in the defence of a team that is losing more than winning..

When I see calls for them to be dropped (Brown mostly it happens with) *shakes head*

 

[pjcrows]

If we're talking a Premiership here...

Talia and Smith are already there.

Hartigan, Brown and Laird need more games but I can genuinely see something there.

Jaensch. Shaw, Mackay, Reilly, Rutten, Otten, Henderson are not up to it or past it.

We need another two defenders with attacking flair and prime foot skills.

 

[Jack is Back]

Agree with the OP.

On to more pressing matters...Is the penthouse available again this year?

It will be difficult to sublet it this September. I'm not keen to offer it to any Power fans if you get what I mean and all Sydney supporters can get stuffed. I am really hoping that Freo come good, lots of mining money in the west.

In the extremely unlikely event that we have a Tex inspired Spike, I would like to organise a cage fight on the Monday before the grand final with Vader and Alex fighting it out to the death to decide who should be guaranteed 22 games in 2015, Reilly or Lewis Johnston

 

[Vader]

In the extremely unlikely event that we have a Tex inspired Spike, I would like to organise a cage fight on the Monday before the grand final with Vader and Alex fighting it out to the death to decide who should be guaranteed 22 games in 2015, Reilly or Lewis Johnston

Not worth fighting over. Reilly shouldn't be playing 22 games next year and LJ won't be on our team list.

 

[fabs33]

Pretty well right..
A few of them are definites, people need to have patience with Laird and Brown..
They're still so young back there, can see them being damn good smaller backs in a few years with experience..

They've started their careers well, we know what they can do, we need to accept a few blips here and there and play through it..
There's been a few lower periods but nothing terrible, especially for a 20 and 21 year old in the defence of a team that is losing more than winning..

When I see calls for them to be dropped (Brown mostly it happens with) *shakes head*

Growing pains, part and parcel of inexperience. What's more concerning is when we can't get good to average performances consistently from senior players.

 

[Bailey01]

If we're talking a Premiership here...

Talia and Smith are already there.

Hartigan, Brown and Laird need more games but I can genuinely see something there.

Jaensch. Shaw, Mackay, Reilly, Rutten, Otten, Henderson are not up to it or past it.

We need another two defenders with attacking flair and prime foot skills.

Otten you kidding me?

 

[mcday]

r?


6) Finally we need a second medium / small defender who can share the loose man duties with Brodie. IMHO the poor defensive skills of Radar and MJ disqualify them but at least MJ is improving in this area (coming from a low base = NaBA). Hopefully this will be Hendo but we will hardly see any of him this year and he may be gone next year. I think that Laird could also play this role and to a lesser extent Brown (could vB take the role of a lock down defender?). Sam Shaw was tried in this role a couple of years ago but his disposal is not up to scratch. From our current list the most likely candidate is CEY but once again he needs to improve his disposal.

While Laird's ball use would make him an effective rebounder, I think he's just a tad too small. Personally I like a loose man to be able to come over the top and really kill a contest (which Hendo with his size would be good with), which Laird might struggle with. I wouldn't mind him pinchhitting there though. And I'm aware you hate Laird playing further up the field, but I really like rotating him through the middle, he's a pretty intelligent user of the ball and having someone like him delivering the ball into our forward line is a plus. So basically, Brown takes their best small forward and Laird plays forward and back based on the matchups.

Frawley is a good option, provided the reports of his absurd salary request is incorrect.

 

[cmndstab]

Agreed that we have a core group that can be part of a long-term defensive unit.

The problem is, all of the mids/smalls (other than Brown, probably) are earmarked to move out of defence. Smith and Laird all seem to be preferred further up the ground.

If it was my call, we'd put Smith and Laird down back for life. Really love them there.

 

[Jack is Back]

While Laird's ball use would make him an effective rebounder, I think he's just a tad too small. Personally I like a loose man to be able to come over the top and really kill a contest (which Hendo with his size would be good with), which Laird might struggle with. I wouldn't mind him pinchhitting there though. And I'm aware you hate Laird playing further up the field, but I really like rotating him through the middle, he's a pretty intelligent user of the ball and having someone like him delivering the ball into our forward line is a plus. So basically, Brown takes their best small forward and Laird plays forward and back based on the matchups.

Frawley is a good option, provided the reports of his absurd salary request is incorrect.

Sam Mitchell - 179 cm v Laird - 178cm.

Rory Laird has a much better leap and his decision making is usually top notch.

I think it is worth a go to use him as a back up in the loose man role. We would love to have a written agreement from all opposition teams to leave Brodie Smith loose but I think the time is coming when he will have a defensive forward played on him most weeks. When this has happened this year, Sando has moved Brodie to the wing and left Jaensch or Reilly as the loose man. I think Laird would be better than either of these two because he is a natural footballer and is very courageous.

 

[pjcrows]

Otten you kidding me?

Premiership quality half back? Nope.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The Defense is not all that bad ....if you bring the ball into the corridor at our defensive HB or defensive 50 ...and turnover the ball, i don't care how good your defensive unit is ....you're shot!

We're 14th in the league defensively ONY because we're the king of turnovers