Captain VB

[SugarShane]

Two of the three missed shots on goal in the last quarter don't count as clangers, but I consider burning the ball. One of them Danger had a man on in front but he took the shot from the angle. 2nd miss he was rushed but did't even look for the option. 3rd miss he did steady, so that one I won't count as burnt. You can burn the ball and have it not count as a clanger. And the fact that he didn't look for the option needs to be considered.

VB also had 2 free against. So really he turned the ball over from disposal twice just like Dangerfield.

Not to mention the absolute sitter of a mark in the 3rd that went straight through Dangerfield's hands and directly resulted in the Leigh Adams goal that kick started their comeback. If that was van Berlo we'd still be hearing about the sarcastic "captain's goal."

 

[Sanders]

Not normally one for quoting this type of number, but champion data had him worst on ground. Below even the subs

 

[fairfooty]

Not normally one for quoting this type of number, but champion data had him worst on ground. Below even the subs

I think tats surprising. Got any more details Sanders?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I thought VB did an okay job on Harvey. What I'm most concerned about is what happens when he actually gets the ball. He's become prone to making bad decisions and turning the ball over.

 

[Mattrox]

Not normally one for quoting this type of number, but champion data had him worst on ground. Below even the subs

So it says VB:"worst on ground"

Or the tagging role doesn't attract the big points in their rating system and he didn't score CD points?

 

[FR0GGY]

So it says VB:"worst on ground"

Or the tagging role doesn't attract the big points in their rating system and he didn't score CD points?

Look at how cornes goes when tagging, he still gets the ball.

 

[Sanders]

So it says VB:"worst on ground"

Or the tagging role doesn't attract the big points in their rating system and he didn't score CD points?

Well... They have a rating system, and in it they value all sorts of big & small acts. They assign a number, and it goes from big to small.

as for the tagging role, Ryan Crowley scored fairly well

Its not everything, but it is interesting

 

[Sanders]

Look at how cornes goes when tagging, he still gets the ball.

Kornes is more of a run with player, than a tagger

 

[Mattrox]

Look at how cornes goes when tagging, he still gets the ball.

No argument. But to use stats to say "Worst on Ground" is disingenuous. VB has has a crap start to the year. That has brought momentum to those that never liked him as Captain to make arguments like "he's not best 22" and "worst on ground". Both are rubbish and nothing arguments. Since the Swans game he has improved and found much better form. Not quite up to what he, or anyone else would like, but those who choose to be blinkered refuse to acknowledge that his role was important to the team. And no one else in the team is capable of such a role anyway.

The "not best 22" and "should be dropped" are red herring arguments designed to bolster the argument that he should be stripped of the captaincy.

 

[FR0GGY]

Kornes is more of a run with player, than a tagger

Hes still more of an effective tagger than vb, just ask Andrew Mcleod

 

[FR0GGY]

No argument. But to use stats to say "Worst on Ground" is disingenuous. VB has has a crap start to the year. That has brought momentum to those that never liked him as Captain to make arguments like "he's not best 22" and "worst on ground". Both are rubbish and nothing arguments. Since the Swans game he has improved and found much better form. Not quite up to what he, or anyone else would like, but those who choose to be blinkered refuse to acknowledge that his role was important to the team. And no one else in the team is capable of such a role anyway.

The "not best 22" and "should be dropped" are red herring arguments designed to bolster the argument that he should be stripped of the captaincy.

Im no fan of his, but he certainly wasnt worst on ground that goes to pets i recon, but he did score the lowest points in CD not that that counts for much

 

[Sanders]

No argument. But to use stats to say "Worst on Ground" is disingenuous.

Only if you don't know what disingenuous means

If you assign the lowest rating to a player, that is analogous to worst on ground

 

[Mattrox]

Only if you don't know what disingenuous means

If you assign the lowest rating to a player, that is analogous to worst on ground

Cool. Then blatantly misleading if disingenuous isn't correct.

 

[Sanders]

Cool. Then blatantly misleading if disingenuous isn't correct.

Its not misleading either

Its a plain unambiguous measure, where CD rated him WOG

Its only misleading if you think the CD measure doesn't say WOG using their system

 

[King Elvis]

An ok effort but definitely didn't deserve all the plaudiits he got from Sando in the presser, it was important to quell Harvey's influence early in the game but even though he's still a good player and his last month looks good paper he's still an ageing player who does fade out in the second halves of games.

So in yesterday's game it can be argued that Sando's stubbornness to change key match-ups in the middle and VB not taking responsibility to stop the most influential player in the midfield occured once again this year as he should of maybe been moved onto Wells in the 2nd half when Harvey moved forward but instead he stuck with the job he was given at the start of the game which just led to both he and Harvey becoming non-factors, so it can be argued that VB did his job well then as Harvey being a non-factor hurts the roos more than VB being a non-factor for the Crows does, however VB's inability to hurt his direct opponent going the other way reared it's head again and if anything he cost us a couple of goals while in defence.

So I thought it was definitely more of a six of one, half a dozen of the other game from our esteemed leader rather then the match winning effort Sando made it out to be.

Good summation.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Honestly I dont care about the tagging role VB does, I just dont want him as captain if he is going to be an average plodder who very rarely does the inspirational or the memorable. Im struggling here guys, but was Shirley made captain? I dont think so.

People want to applaud VB for tagging a 35 year old out of the game, fair enough. I think Adelaide could manage to tag a player out of the game without sacrificing their captain in the process, so let VB tag (and probably be dropped to SANFL with some of his performances this year) and give Sloane or Danger the captaincy

 

[maxlilly]

Dangerfield:
25 touches
13 inside 50's
6 clearances
2 clangers
10 contested possessions

Van B
12 touches
2 inside 50's
1 clearance
4 clangers
6 contested possessions

Going against the crowd isn't the cool, independent, free thinking attitude you seem to think sometimes

The crowd have this one spot on

I always love a good stat too.
From Dangers 13 inside 50's, he did not have one goal assist for the game.
I think that is what people could see with Dangers disposal on Sunday, plus the shanks on goal

But strangely, it was one of VB's better games for the year

 

[1970crow]

i think it's time to put this to bed. in the last few weeks, vb has started to warrant selection on performance. he's certainly not the best tagger/run-with-player going around, but he's ours at the moment and he's performing to the mediocre level that we absolutely demand without compromise and he'll be doing it for as far as the eye can see. now, if he's our tagger, will we win a flag? of course not. but he's in the team and his form now warrants selection again next week.

but this thread is about 'captain vb' and that chapter will come to a close at the end of the year. vb's not an idiot and he knows his form dropped far too low for too many weeks to be able to lead the team. he knows that there are 2 others who can take the mantle right now and take us to the next phase. like thommo, vb's been a great servant and i sincerely hope that he can turn his form around over an extended period and be a part of the next phase of sustained afc success. if he can't, well tought t***ies, we'll all move on. if he's captain next year i'll only refer to him as dom vb.

 

[Sanders]

I always love a good stat too.
From Dangers 13 inside 50's, he did not have one goal assist for the game.
I think that is what people could see with Dangers disposal on Sunday, plus the shanks on goal

But strangely, it was one of VB's better games for the year

Is there meant to be a link between inside 50's and goal assists?

 

[Mattrox]

Is there meant to be a link between inside 50's and goal assists?

There is if you kick 2 behinds that could/should have been goal assists.

Got to read the stats in context of the game. If Dangerfield dishes off we get at minimum one more goal from the 4th quarter.

The stats do not exist in isolation from the game. Sometimes stats are linked, sometimes not depending on how the game plays out.

 

[Sanders]

There is if you kick 2 behinds that could/should have been goal assists.

Got to read the stats in context of the game. If Dangerfield dishes off we get at minimum one more goal from the 4th quarter.

The stats do not exist in isolation from the game. Sometimes stats are linked, sometimes not depending on how the game plays out.

You get credited with an I50 for a shot on goal? I'm not sure about that

 

[Mattrox]

If you carry the ball across the 50 for your shot?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Harvey got it 16 times Sunday, if that number be ones 26 - North Melbourne win the game.

Boomer Harvey is one if North Melbourne best payers, he can influence a game with as little as 5 to 10 touches.

VB should not be captain next year but his place in the best 22 is not in any jealousy.

 

[dylan123]

VB should not be captain next year but his place in the best 22 is not in any jealousy.

Should he play like he did over the first 15 odd rounds I'd say it would come under threat. Over the past month or so it seems like he's gotten a little better, still not his biggest fan personally but has done a few things that we were all asking for recently that had been missing from his game.

 

[Sanders]

Harvey got it 16 times Sunday, if that number be ones 26 - North Melbourne win the game.

With a historical career average against us of only 20, i'd say he needed one of his better career performances against us to do that. Yes they probably win if he has a big game

Boomer Harvey is one if North Melbourne best payers, he can influence a game with as little as 5 to 10 touches.

He's more of an accumulator

VB should not be captain next year but his place in the best 22 is not in any jealousy.

Perhaps not. But maybe it should be