Cardinal Pell honorary role with Richmond - Is this the last straw?

[Goldust]

Not attributing guilt, but was in our Ballarat office recently and met an alleged victim of his.
Eye-opening!

 

[Vitriol]

If you mean me, I haven't said anything about my own beliefs.
People who break the law should be treated that way and should cop it exactly the same regardless of wealth, religion, reputation or whatever...it's in the rules.

Not aimed at anyone in particular. Just pointing out pretty typical in-group out-group behavior that is seen when we see ourselves as part of a team.
Just like Hird with Essendon fans the Catholics need to take a step back and accept reality.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Was that aimed at me? If so, not at all. I'm perfectly happy coexisting with any religion or religious person that lets me lead my life in peace, and abides by what I think should be a universal human value of not harming others.

Interestingly enough I had to deal with a similar situation in my life recently. Without going into details I had a professional relationship with someone and I was increasingly disturbed by what appeared to be going on in their life. I was actually kept up at night worrying if i should cut ties as it would hurt them financially, although in a minor way. I came to the conclusion that without judging them I would break ties with them. Dealing with their issues was not a part of my professional responsibilities. In this instance I think the club should do the same.

As I said in the OP I admit to being mercenary about this. I think this is what's best for the club, and hope it can be done in a way that avoids casting judgement. Having said that, I'd be very surprised if the club did anything other than take the easy path and wait till the end of the trial.

I still think sacking your rub n tag masseuse because she barracks for norf is an overreaction dude

It's not like she was a bluebagger

 

[Dr Tigris]

It's too serious to just ignore. It's not settled, so being angry about it isn't right. So I reckon suspending his role would make perfect sense.

Not suspending him seems contradictory to our (RFC) stance regarding abuse.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

It’s a tough one innocent until proven guilty and all that but it’s a terrible look for the club but more than that the way those poor kids were treated is a disgrace this s**t should of happened years ago

 

[GN272]

Tigers

My membership card shows the club is a supporter of the 'Alannah and Madeline Foundation' - and by default 92,500 paid up tigers (the membership) are also supporter of this worthy foundation - (a quick google search - Alannah & Madeline Foundation is proud to have been keeping children away from violence and abuse for over 20 years.)

Cardinal Pell (Ok I'll use his correct title) is currently before the courts charged with 'historical sexual offence allegations against children' (details about the nature and number of charges cannot be reported for legal reasons.) - https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ardinal-george-pell-and-what-is-he-accused-of. -

So effectively ... to boil it down .... my footy club (which I'm a proud member):
- supports and actively promotes a foundation to protect children from violence and abuse.
- has as a 'Vice Patron' (whatever that means) someone who is currently before the courts charged with .... something to do with the historical abuse of children .... (I think)

This doesn't sound right to me .....

NOTE -
- I do not make any comment of guilt or innocence towards the accused.
- I do not make any comment of the position the accused holds or previously held with his employer.

 

[telsor]

To edit the OP down to the relevant points...

As per Mattt's closed thread, Gale has previously stated:
"In light of Cardinal Pell's fundamental rights to the presumption of innocence and to a fair trial, he will remain a vice-patron of the club pending the outcome of any trial," Gale told Fox Footy."

Pell has now been committed to stand trial for historical sex assault charges.

So, we don't have the OUTCOME of the trial yet....

end of discussion.

 

[Madison]

Given the recent history of the Catholic Church I wish we had nothing to do with any of them, let alone Pell specifically.

Why would we line ourselves up with any organization that spent years covering up child abuse? Proven! Not allegedly.

Sack them all off. We should condemn the Catholic Church and everything they’ve chosen to stand for.

 

[KiwiTiger]

I think some are forgetting that the alignment with Cardinal Pell evolved as he is a former Richmond player. I wouldn’t say it evolved as a Catholic Church alignment.

Haere Ra.

 

[Bojangles17]

All politics aside, you can't deny that it's not a great look for the club.

For the club to act now would be weak and insipid , they have a recent track record of following due process which reflects strength in leadership rather than grandstand and jump at shadows . This situation should be no different, I have complete confidence in the club acting responsibley

 

[Rubber Hips]

Pells denial and dismissive attitude to victims of church paedephiles is not becoming of an office bearer of our great club

Pell can go rot for the times he turned a blind eye to the campaigners that molested vulnerable children.

The same kids that had their lives ruined because of it...sadly many suicided

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Given the recent history of the Catholic Church I wish we had nothing to do with any of them, let alone Pell specifically.

Why would we line ourselves up with any organization that spent years covering up child abuse? Proven! Not allegedly.

Sack them all off. We should condemn the Catholic Church and everything they’ve chosen to stand for.

That's extremely simplistic.

I'm not Catholic nor am I married to a Catholic. But I know of many who are including priests that are fantastic people who devote their lives helping and feeding the poor and underprivileged. They are respected individuals who sacrifice their lives to help others.

Yes there were too many priests in days gone by that destroyed lives of young children. But even that number is dwarfed by those who have been good.

Your suggestion of condemning them all is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[DickieKnee]

That kinda gets to the seat of the problem.
Pell's committed to showing unconditional love and support to someone whos asked to be forgiven.
That bloke with bad sunnies is a priest and he knows his God has a certain way of dealing with people who violate children.
He burns them.
Pell is still showing him unconditional love and not judging him cause he's a priest and that his go, he's infront of the courts now because of whether or not that conflict of interest led him to break the law.

A pity Pell did not show the same unconditional love for Risdales victims isnt it?

 

[Sir_Loin]

I think some are forgetting that the alignment with Cardinal Pell evolved as he is a former Richmond player. I wouldn’t say it evolved as a Catholic Church alignment.

Haere Ra.

KT is that true though? Hard to find any records that he played for the club apart from his own statements

 

[4tune8]

Too many questions and no answers.......to stand by this person is honorable, but what are the consequences if this drags on? He has to be suspended pending the outcome. No other response is acceptable, if he is guilty then we look like fools, if he get's off then the perception is that he wriggled out of it. It's a 'no win' both ways.....suspend for a bit of breathing space, then make the decision to eject, we will be seen to be making the correct decision in the end.

 

[The Goon]

For the club to act now would be weak and insipid , they have a recent track record of following due process which reflects strength in leadership rather than grandstand and jump at shadows . This situation should be no different, I have complete confidence in the club acting responsibley

Your 'weak and insipid' is someone else's 'showing strength of character'. Acting now does not necessarily entail grandstanding or jumping at shadows, but could be done in a calm and professional manner. Like his employer, the Catholic Church, who (according to this thread) has suspended him for the duration. Why can't we do the same?

 

[Sir_Rancelot]

He should be shown the door quickly, even the allegations are enough to distance ourselves from him.

 

[Tiger71]

I still think sacking your rub n tag masseuse because she barracks for norf is an overreaction dude

It's not like she was a bluebagger

Wtf! He sacked tigs2010 ?

 

[Madison]

That's extremely simplistic.

I'm not Catholic nor am I married to a Catholic. But I know of many who are including priests that are fantastic people who devote their lives helping and feeding the poor and underprivileged. They are respected individuals who sacrifice their lives to help others.

Yes there were too many priests in days gone by that destroyed lives of young children. But even that number is dwarfed by those who have been good.

Your suggestion of condemning them all is ridiculous to say the least.

Not for mine. I’m not saying they are all guilty but staying with the Catholic Church after they systematically covered up and turned a blind eye to child abuse is condoning their actions in my eyes.

There are plenty of variations to Christianity that aren’t specifically Catholic. They could easily find a church that lines up with their moral compass (though if you’ve read much about religion you wouldn’t have too much of a moral compass to be lined up with almost any church).

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Not for mine. I’m not saying they are all guilty but staying with the Catholic Church after they systematically covered up and turned a blind eye to child abuse is condoning their actions in my eyes.

There are plenty of variations to Christianity that aren’t specifically Catholic. They could easily find a church that lines up with their moral compass (though if you’ve read much about religion you wouldn’t have too much of a moral compass to be lined up with almost any church).

There is precious wrong with any religion. The problem is with people who manipulate it to their own ends.

Most religions set out laws that allow all to live in harmony. If we actually followed the rules themselves, we'd all live in a better world.

 

[Wackelpudding]

KT is that true though? Hard to find any records that he played for the club apart from his own statements

Rhett Bartlett looked into this last year - he couldn't find any evidence he played for Richmond, only that he MAY have signed at some point.

 

[Madison]

There is precious wrong with any religion. The problem is with people who manipulate it to their own ends.

Most religions set out laws that allow all to live in harmony. If we actually followed the rules themselves, we'd all live in a better world.

You’ve not read a lot into religion then I take it?

If the fundamentals of your religion are peaceful, the fundamentalists would be peaceful. But that’s just not true in the major religions. From Christianity to Islam the fundamentalists are dangerous. Unless you are talking about Jainism in which case I agree.

 

[The Goon]

To edit the OP down to the relevant points...



So, we don't have the OUTCOME of the trial yet....

end of discussion.

Very selective quoting there telsor. Perhaps you'd like to delve into the rationale behind my stance and join the ongoing discussion? For instance, seeing as his employer has suspended his activities for the duration of the trial, why shouldn't we? After all, our connection is very tenuous, and from a professional standpoint is no longer serving our interests (if it ever did).

 

[Sir_Rancelot]

Rhett Bartlett looked into this last year - he couldn't find any evidence he played for Richmond, only that he MAY have signed at some point.

Interesting choice of words in that tweet

 

[Sir_Loin]

Very selective quoting there telsor. Perhaps you'd like to delve into the rationale behind my stance and join the ongoing discussion? For instance, seeing as his employer has suspended his activities for the duration of the trial, why shouldn't we? After all, our connection is very tenuous, and from a professional standpoint is no longer serving our interests (if it ever did).

I got into this a few times previously on other threads and almost chucked it in being a poster on BF as captain blood 17 and TJASTA will attest to. Other than to state one thing. There's a reason why RFC aren't pulling the pin on Pell. My personal opinions aside, he should be given the benefit of natural justice like any one of us should. Beyond that let the chips fall where they may.