Coach Carlton Coaching Group 2024

[Original Moody Blue]

I certainly don't base it on stuff that is out of his control.
Williams, Saad and Martin are all fine recruits. If we can get a consistent 22 on the park for more than a few weeks at a time, we will see them all contributing how they should.
Player development has been an issue since long before Lloyd came along, but how about acknowledging that he has overseen the implementation of our own stand alone VFL side, which has been wanted for quite some time and will see an improvement in development.
How about overseeing the recruitment of Luke Power, which will also benefit this area?

I'm not going to engage in a back and forth over good vs bad things that he may or not be responsible for. I have my opinion on how he is performing and can happily look at the good and the bad.
You have yours, which is fine, but you seem happy to overlook the good stuff and favour the bad, or even burden him with stuff that isn't his domain.

Just trying to find the good stuff in the past 9 years.

Carlton: Melbourne:
2013 09 17
2014 13 17
2015 18 13
2016 14 11
2017 16 09
2018 18 05
2019 16 17
2020 11 09
2021 13 01 Year to date

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Using current ladder position and win/loss to determine projection? How simplistic

Perhaps I should use the force instead of the ladder?

Hawthorn: Win?
Sydney: Loss?
W/Coast: Depends which W/Coast show up?
GWS: have not beaten them in years
Adelaide: Win?
Fremantle: Win?
Geelong: Loss
Collingwood: Win?
Norf: Not so sure now...but should win.
St;Kilda: Toss of the coin
Suns: Win
Port: Loss
Giants: ???

Maybe another 5-6 wins which leaves us 8 or 9 wins for the year which leaves us 10-14th for the year...maybe.

 

[Dramoth]

Let's get some facts into these opinions

The club ousted Trigg and on the back of that, they essentially made it easy for Craig to depart. That poor decision lead to another by the club, having no other option to engage a qualified Fitness and Performance person. This was a failure by the club

Let's get something really clear, let's stop blaming anyone other than the coach for how they want to run the gameplan, strategies and tactics. The coach has the final say, not an assistant

2018 is well documented, youngest, most inexperienced group over the course of our rebuild, with an extradentary large injury list, all areas performed poorly

2019 4th in clearances

2020 4th in clearances

2021 currently 2nd in clearances

They are the facts, the rest is conjecture

I wouldn't have a clue how effective any assistant is, nor do you, nor do 99% of people here. I couldn't care less who the assistants are, as the buck stops with the head coach

Lets define some definitions here before going further.

Strategy: a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim. in the terms of sports, it can be called a game plan.
Tactics: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end. i.e. the tactics involved in setting up the structures around stoppages to fit in with the game plan.

2017: Craig was the head of strategy and high performance - 16th. Injuries
2018: Barker was the head of strategy and high performance. - 18th. Injuries.

Our injury list, it seems, for the last 10 years has been extraordinary. It's not an excuse if you are the head of strategy. You are supposed to take all factors and create a plan to get around the issues. Craig managed to get around our extraordinary injury list in 2017 and we finished 16th. It's seems that Barker couldn't, and the injury list was no worse than previous years. It was well noted and commented on in 2018 that we seemed to have no plan A, place B or any other plans that would help us win games. Bolton was supposed to tell Barker what he wanted for our overall strategy and game plan, and Barker was supposed to go away and design it. Because he was the head of strategy, he was supposed to communicate the plan(s) he had devised to the assistant coaches and potentially help them build the structures to make that game plan strategy work. We got stuffed on a number of occasions meaning that our game plan was totally ineffective against the opposition.

High performance: overseeing the strength and fitness programs of the players.
Under Craig, it seems that we could run out 4 quarters. Fitness was at it's highest level in years. Under Barker, people were commenting everyw week that we seened to run out of puff every game at around the 3rd quarter mark. It came out at the end of the year that our AFL players fitness levels were sub VFL level.

I know that you want to be the voice of reason in terms of our assistants. But, here is my take of it. Barker has proven himself incapable of creating the short term tactics (structures) needed to support the game plan devised either by the senior coach or the head of strategy.

As for the clearances stats... does your stats tell us how many of those clearances resulted in scoring opportunities for the club and how many resulted in turn overs? How many clearances were from the centre bounce and resulted in club scoring opportunities? It's all very well being #2 in clearances this year if our win/loss ratio was better. If our clearance ratio was matched by scoring opportunities, we'd be higher up the ladder. Therefore, there is a breakdown somewhere along the lines between stopages and midfield transition and between midfield transition and delivery into our forward 50.

If it all matched up, we'd be on top of the ladder... but we're not. We're mired back in the pack 2 games, I think, off a spot in the 8.

As I have said in the Barker thread... Teague could come up with a gold plated A grade game plan... but if our assistant coaches can't implement and train it properly... and as I've said in this post, create the tactics needed to implement it properly in a game, we are going to struggle.

 

[Arr0w]

As has been repeatedly noted, Clearance numbers don't reflect the quality of our clearances vs the quality of our opposition's clearance. Most perfectly demonstrated in the Collingwood game.

Barker is the Stoppages coach. While Teague can certainly take the blame for our overall structure/game plan and how it effects our defence (man-on-man, lack of zone), and how we score, he's not setting up our stoppages.

So you have video analysis of all our stoppages over the last 2 and 1/2 years, which also includes the opposition?

Teague/head coach sets the strategy.

Try another assumption

 

[Arr0w]

Perhaps I should use the force instead of the ladder?

Hawthorn: Win?
Sydney: Loss?
W/Coast: Depends which W/Coast show up?
GWS: have not beaten them in years
Adelaide: Win?
Fremantle: Win?
Geelong: Loss
Collingwood: Win?
Norf: Not so sure now...but should win.
St;Kilda: Toss of the coin
Suns: Win
Port: Loss
Giants: ???

Maybe another 5-6 wins which leaves us 8 or 9 wins for the year which leaves us 10-14th for the year...maybe.

So predictions only

 

[Dramoth]

Just trying to find the good stuff in the past 9 years.

Carlton: Melbourne:
2013 09 17
2014 13 17
2015 18 13
2016 14 11
2017 16 09
2018 18 05
2019 16 17
2020 11 09
2021 13 01 Year to date

While it appears that Melbourne started their rebuild proper in 2014 with the appointment, by the AFL, of Roos to get them sorted out, they started their clear out of players well before 2013 and is reflected in their ladder positions for a couple of years prior to that.

Malthouse definitely had a dead cat bounce in 2013 getting us to 9th. Then the previous 5 years of bad draft picks and insane salaries to B grade players caught up with the club and Malthouse tried to clear house and get in some young talent. Letting Eddie leave and bringing in Daisy would have been a wise move if our list had been better.

 

[Stamos]

So you have video analysis of all our stoppages over the last 2 and 1/2 years, which also includes the opposition?

Teague/head coach sets the strategy.

Try another assumption

No, I watch the games every week, nothing to do with assumption.
Our stoppage work is very poor, especially given the talent we have available. We might win a lot of clearances, but they are generally of poor quality, hack kicks forward, handballs to players under pressure.
But when we lose clearances, we get opened up.

 

[Dramoth]

No, I watch the games every week, nothing to do with assumption.
Our stoppage work is very poor, especially given the talent we have available. We might win a lot of clearances, but they are generally of poor quality, hack kicks forward, handballs to players under pressure.
But when we lose clearances, we get opened up.

So... what you're saying is that despite having a large number of clearances, the majority of them end up as turnovers as oppossed to scoring opportunities for the club?

 

[El Topo]

Barker's tenure predates three senior coaches and just about every poster on this website. On current evidence, his tenure at the Carlton Football Club will survive the heat death of the universe. Can we at least shift the discussion to the JB thread in the meantime.

 

[Arr0w]

Lets define some definitions here before going further.

Strategy: a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim. in the terms of sports, it can be called a game plan.
Tactics: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end. i.e. the tactics involved in setting up the structures around stoppages to fit in with the game plan.

2017: Craig was the head of strategy and high performance - 16th. Injuries
2018: Barker was the head of strategy and high performance. - 18th. Injuries.

Our injury list, it seems, for the last 10 years has been extraordinary. It's not an excuse if you are the head of strategy. You are supposed to take all factors and create a plan to get around the issues. Craig managed to get around our extraordinary injury list in 2017 and we finished 16th. It's seems that Barker couldn't, and the injury list was no worse than previous years. It was well noted and commented on in 2018 that we seemed to have no plan A, place B or any other plans that would help us win games. Bolton was supposed to tell Barker what he wanted for our overall strategy and game plan, and Barker was supposed to go away and design it. Because he was the head of strategy, he was supposed to communicate the plan(s) he had devised to the assistant coaches and potentially help them build the structures to make that game plan strategy work. We got stuffed on a number of occasions meaning that our game plan was totally ineffective against the opposition.

High performance: overseeing the strength and fitness programs of the players.
Under Craig, it seems that we could run out 4 quarters. Fitness was at it's highest level in years. Under Barker, people were commenting everyw week that we seened to run out of puff every game at around the 3rd quarter mark. It came out at the end of the year that our AFL players fitness levels were sub VFL level.

I know that you want to be the voice of reason in terms of our assistants. But, here is my take of it. Barker has proven himself incapable of creating the short term tactics (structures) needed to support the game plan devised either by the senior coach or the head of strategy.

As for the clearances stats... does your stats tell us how many of those clearances resulted in scoring opportunities for the club and how many resulted in turn overs? How many clearances were from the centre bounce and resulted in club scoring opportunities? It's all very well being #2 in clearances this year if our win/loss ratio was better. If our clearance ratio was matched by scoring opportunities, we'd be higher up the ladder. Therefore, there is a breakdown somewhere along the lines between stopages and midfield transition and between midfield transition and delivery into our forward 50.

If it all matched up, we'd be on top of the ladder... but we're not. We're mired back in the pack 2 games, I think, off a spot in the 8.

As I have said in the Barker thread... Teague could come up with a gold plated A grade game plan... but if our assistant coaches can't implement and train it properly... and as I've said in this post, create the tactics needed to implement it properly in a game, we are going to struggle.

You have completely ignored what I posted.

Dissect/respond to that, as it is factual, not conjecture

While assistants, would raise ideas, concerns, strategies and the likes, the coach ticks off on all of these, whether they embrace or ignore the concept

Again, for the umpteenth time.

No one here knows the effectiveness of an assistant

 

[Original Moody Blue]

While it appears that Melbourne started their rebuild proper in 2014 with the appointment, by the AFL, of Roos to get them sorted out, they started their clear out of players well before 2013 and is reflected in their ladder positions for a couple of years prior to that.

Malthouse definitely had a dead cat bounce in 2013 getting us to 9th. Then the previous 5 years of bad draft picks and insane salaries to B grade players caught up with the club and Malthouse tried to clear house and get in some young talent. Letting Eddie leave and bringing in Daisy would have been a wise move if our list had been better.

'Letting Eddie leave and bringing in Daisy would have been a wise move if our list had been better.'

Well I have heard it all now. A discarded player from Collingwood who was injured when he arrived and could not kick the footy over a jam jar and took two years to play regular footy, ahead of a player who was the heart and soul of the club.

We are like the Knights of the Round table who have lost their way, and need to ride off and not return until we find the Holy Grail. It took the Knights 10 years to find the Grail, about as long as this rebuild.

 

[Arr0w]

No, I watch the games every week, nothing to do with assumption.
Our stoppage work is very poor, especially given the talent we have available. We might win a lot of clearances, but they are generally of poor quality, hack kicks forward, handballs to players under pressure.
But when we lose clearances, we get opened up.

Okay so you have kept notes over that period as evidence?

Haven't you stated on numerous occasions that we aren't playing players in their rightful position? You think that's at the behest of an assistant or senior coach?

We win stoppages but the transition is poor, is that Stanton then, or Teague gameplan?

We have discussed this, yet you continue to use the same assumptions

 

[Dramoth]

'Letting Eddie leave and bringing in Daisy would have been a wise move if our list had been better.'

Well I have heard it all now. A discarded player from Collingwood who was injured when he arrived and could not kick the footy over a jam jar and took two years to play regular footy, ahead of a player who was the heart and soul of the club.

We are like the Knights of the Round table who have lost their way, and need to ride off and not return until we find the Holy Grail. It took the Knights 10 years to find the Grail, about as long as this rebuild.

Don't get caught up in the hyperbole about the rebuild. It's only been going on properly for 5 seasons, we are currently in the 6th season.

As for Daisy... it was a similar reason to that which we brought in Judd. Bring in someone from a "successful" club that had won a premiership recently to help build the club culture. It's not Daisy's fault that he was injuried. Judd's groins were the worst the club medical staff had seen when he arrived, but we still grabbed him. The club could have kept Eddie, but didn't. That's all on Malthouse.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Don't get caught up in the hyperbole about the rebuild. It's only been going on properly for 5 seasons, we are currently in the 6th season.

As for Daisy... it was a similar reason to that which we brought in Judd. Bring in someone from a "successful" club that had won a premiership recently to help build the club culture. It's not Daisy's fault that he was injuried. Judd's groins were the worst the club medical staff had seen when he arrived, but we still grabbed him. The club could have kept Eddie, but didn't. That's all on Malthouse.

Malthouse knew he was recruiting an injured player, and in concert with the CEO (former Collingwood CEO) agreed to it on a massive salary. No other club was going to pay him that money. You only get one Carlton in your lifetime.

 

[Gavstar]

Malthouse knew he was recruiting an injured player, and in concert with the CEO (former Collingwood CEO) agreed to it on a massive salary. No other club was going to pay him that money. You only get one Carlton in your lifetime.

North and the Bulldogs had a Ned Guy in their lifetime!

 

[Aphrodite]

Malthouse knew he was recruiting an injured player, and in concert with the CEO (former Collingwood CEO) agreed to it on a massive salary. No other club was going to pay him that money. You only get one Carlton in your lifetime.

The Carringbush are going really well atm.

You only get one Filth in your lifetime!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Just trying to find the good stuff in the past 9 years.

Carlton: Melbourne:
2013 09 17
2014 13 17
2015 18 13
2016 14 11
2017 16 09
2018 18 05
2019 16 17
2020 11 09
2021 13 01 Year to date

Tell me again how Lloyd is responsible for our on-field performances from 2013 to 2018?
Maybe you missed the part where we were discussing Brad Lloyd's performance in his role AT Carlton.

 

[katmanblue]

Best thing on GuesSEN. The ED ads.

I get the notebook out when I hear them. For a friend.

 

[gandaal]

We are the most unfit team in the AFL with the longest injury list. What's the story with Russell?

 

[Arr0w]

We are the most unfit team in the AFL with the longest injury list. What's the story with Russell?

We're not that unfit, numbers don't suggest it anyway

Most injuries are of the contact variety, players now starting to come back

 

[gandaal]

We're not that unfit, numbers don't suggest it anyway

Most injuries are of the contact variety, players now starting to come back

Eye test says otherwise to me. We seem to hit a wall in the third every week.

Maybe it's not lack of fitness, maybe it's the game plan asking too much. Either way something is not right.

 

[Arr0w]

Eye test says otherwise to me. We seem to hit a wall in the third every week.

Maybe it's not lack of fitness, maybe it's the game plan asking too much. Either way something is not right.

2nd paragraph more the point. What we do lack though is speed

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Let's not all carry on to much - club start rebuild in huge debt looking for AFL life support -- terrible TPP position last place paying 100%.. use people in multiple position such as Andrew Mackay while not having a recognised fitness program after paying out for two failures -- we have a facility that is below standard - we have no ability to pump into football program until debt settled -- we hire said development coaches start of 2020 with plan to launch own VFL side 2021 only having to shrink soft cap and let said staff go also restricts adding to program -- if cap goes up I am sure we will improve program with quality staff while moving into a state of the art facility no debt our own VFL side have off field structural positions filled football and non football - we will have board changes made without blood on the floor -- all while possibly having 4 AA player 26 and under ( not counting docherty ) and added players of high standard for little draft capital Saad Martin William (we lost a pick 8) -- teague gave me confidence that he is going hard on defence even though he has had to give them some rein because most were running around like deers in headlights and we couldn't score 50 points - by his statement last night that at times we have tried to slow the ball at times put players behind the ball gone quick at times but until we learn to put constant pressure on the ball carrier and protect the scoreboard we won't be a great side ..Not all players will make it - not all junior ability translates to senior success .. richmond won 3 premiership look how many first round picks they botched ..
C'mn the mighty blues ..

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Haiyaa...
Teague's game plan, the gift that keeps on giving...

The game plan isn't even competitive in the VFL...
O’Keefe & Power would be pulling their hair out having to coach and develop players under this sh*t game plan,
instead of 100% developing the team to ruthlessly compete and win...

Not having any key position players -a medium forward pinch hitting as a full forward and look at the profile of the AFL mids we ran with today while not having a recognised ruck - won't win many games no matter the game plan -- we belted Brisbane by the same margin better go give that Fagan a good old blast ..

 

[TENACIOUS]

Enough is enough..
It's time for the powers to be to stand in and tell the coaching group,
either teach defensive structures that complement our attack... Ala Melbourne...
or we will move you all on and find someone that will..

Teague and Co are ruining this group, who easily has the talent to be top 8...
Only thing keeping us competitive in games is the players..