List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[Blue_Fusion]

There seems to be a bit of annoyance around our pick #66 and later players.

Can I just ask, what you were expecting out of those late picks?

 

[KnobHead]

There seems to be a bit of annoyance around our pick #66 and later players.

Can I just ask, what you were expecting out of those late picks?

Excellent post, was thinking the same thing.

With the mature age rookies we got this year and last year, before criticizing the decision it would be good to know what the alternative rookie picks were and why they would’ve succeeded.




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[HARKER]

Over the years I have read many Blues posters comments about how Players X were still available when we picked Y players instead, and that we should have picked X. I loved how excited our recruitment team were when the deal was done and they picked Stocker, they were over the moon.
I have a feeling in the near future, there will be a few teams supporters having the same types of conversations on their respective boards, along the lines of 'Stocker was still available when we picked X, imagine how good it would have been if we picked him instead of X'.
I don't really care about points or where the Crows finish (well maybe I would like them to crash and burn), I reckon we will be trading our first next year for a mature player anyway. The way I see it, is we got the kid we really, really rated, and that's the most important part of the equation.

What we did was perfectly fine in principle, but did we take the player we really needed?
That's not a slight on Stocker as he may end up a wonderful player but at the expense of.....Kennedy?
Does it matter if we took the three best players in the draft if they all happened to be full-backs? I think it matters.

Again, the principle of the trade was sound, but did we take the player we deemed to be best, or the player we needed most?
We'll never know but have to 'trust' that next year starts to fill the gaps that this draft hasn't covered up for us.

 

[HARKER]

There seems to be a bit of annoyance around our pick #66 and later players.
Can I just ask, what you were expecting out of those late picks?

What do we expect?
A littler more ambition in filling obvious gaps wouldn't have hurt.
Maybe those players simply weren't there or maybe we didn't look hard enough.
Hard to tell, but I don't see what Goddard will do for us, other than clutter up the NB's back-line.

 

[windows1]

Guessing 3 but if we want to hold back a spot for SSP then we will have only 2.

SSP?

 

[Arr0w]

What we did was perfectly fine in principle, but did we take the player we really needed?
That's not a slight on Stocker as he may end up a wonderful player but at the expense of.....Kennedy?
Does it matter if we took the three best players in the draft if they all happened to be full-backs? I think it matters.

Again, the principle of the trade was sound, but did we take the player we deemed to be best, or the player we needed most?
We'll never know but have to 'trust' that next year starts to fill the gaps that this draft hasn't covered up for us.

We took the best/slider talent

Bonus is, he is also a player of need

As you know Harker, drafting is not for the now. Midfielder types are a replacement for 2 year's time (Murphy, Thomas, Ed, Simmo), While KPP/ruckmen, are replacements for 4 year's time

 

[footyfan1978]

SSP?

Yes, we have a spot left on purpose to keep options open to add someone in pre-season supplemental selection period (SSP) or the mid-season draft for rookie list. The SSP is from December till mid March. It is designed to allow a club to add an extra player if someone went down in pre-season period liked happened with us last pre-season of Docherty or someone like Nick Duigan needing to retire in pre-season that happened about five years back. But clubs can use it other ways like Giants doing with Shane Mumford or Dons with Zac Clarke too. We left one rookie list spot vacant so rather than it only be possible if someone injured we using it with purpose to add someone early in new year or later in mid-season draft if no one we super keen on during pre-season period.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Can I just ask, what you were expecting out of those late picks?

To draft for needs. Primarily a creative small forward, and to a lesser extent, a project ruck.

No-one's seen anything much of Finbar, but I'm unconvinced he's the answer to the first, and I'm definitely convinced Bugg isn't.

Special is near the end, Lobbe is the same, Levi's AFL career is done, Phillips is on life-support, and god help us if we start putting Harry in centre bounces. We needed to lay foundations for our next big man this year - unless we hope to pinch an established one next year or 2020. Maybe that's the plan - top up with Lobbes as needed.

 

[HARKER]

We took the best/slider talent
Bonus is, he is also a player of need
As you know Harker, drafting is not for the now. Midfielder types are a replacement for 2 year's time (Murphy, Thomas, Ed, Simmo), While KPP/ruckmen, are replacements for 4 year's time

Of course drafting isn't for the now.
It also shouldn't be about stacking on similar types we play musical chairs with.
It's an issue if you're not nailing the premium talent you've brought in via trade. (I don't see all these mids being able to co-exist)

I did say that's it's hard to play out what may come about, as I have no idea what next years plans may be, but other than taking on the best mid in this draft, we didn't really address any needs.
We'll continue to disagree on this note and that's fine as some get excited about talent for talents sake. I prefer balance and scope for opportunity.

 

[Soapy V]

There is always "if's" and "maybes" at draft time. Look at our last 3 years and what we have achieved. Our list has immense talent and is extremely young.

I couldn't be happier and the timing of getting Russell is a major get.

We now have a group that will grow together and new standards will be met. Over the next few years I expect 4-6 changes each year and most will be targeting specific needs like small forward and ruck. As we step up we will be an even more attractive to players.

If you have told me three years ago our list would look like it is now I never would have believed you. It's been an amazing turnaround.

Credit to all involved. I am really looking forward to the next 5-10 years and I haven't been able to say that for 25 years

Go Blues

 

[Arr0w]

Of course drafting isn't for the now.
It also shouldn't be about stacking on similar types we play musical chairs with.
It's an issue if you're not nailing the premium talent you've brought in via trade. (I don't see all these mids being able to co-exist)

I did say that's it's hard to play out what may come about, as I have no idea what next years plans may be, but other than taking on the best mid in this draft, we didn't really address any needs.
We'll continue to disagree on this note and that's fine as some get excited about talent for talents sake. I prefer balance and scope for opportunity.

Not sure where this "musical chairs" statement is coming from, as players have a use by date and will either retire or be delisted, hence drafting best available, which are replacements in time.

It is like the statement about not needing/requiring more young talent, then bemoaning the mature age players we add to the list

 

[Robertio]

i love that clip of agresta assessong the draft saying that doing the trade to get stocker was a "no brainer" , and i agree as well, we either get pick 10-18 from the crows , plenty of good players recruited on this bracket, or more likely we trade it anyway. I'm actually really struggling to see the downside here . IMO it a sweetener from the crows for the mcgovern trade in which we over paid.How can't people see this, it's like their conditioned to carlton being crap and getting low picks and thats what the footy season is about. Snap out of it people we've got a bloody good list now and will be racing up the ladder, wether its this year or next.

Love a top 5 pick from the Crows next year, wouldn't that shut the entilted ....wit supporters up.

 

[windows1]

Late picks and the rookie draft continue to be disappointing. It's the one area that hasn't improved at all since SOS took over. I think we make some questionable drafting choices year after year. We try too hard to search for a hidden superstar, or try to extract value from the recently delisted in the mistaken belief that our development team is better than those at other clubs.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

I think we have 34-35 guys on the list in line for the AFL team.

I think it’s impossible to see how any rookie gets anywhere near a game anyway.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The downside if you can't see it, is a repeat of the season we just had next year. It's natural to be positive at this time of year, but trading a first rounder in our position is a big risk. It won't be an argument won on the internet though, only on-field.

All selections / trades have an element of risk. Can't see how selecting someone who was rated by the club as top 10 this year in a strong draft any riskier than a potential top five in a weaker draft next year. In addition we have a 'second hit' with another (potentially) later 1st rounder.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

My opinion only: Well done Carlton Recruitment team

 

[Soapy V]

Love a top 5 pick from the Crows next year, wouldn't that shut the entilted ....wit supporters up.

I think we will trade it regardless. A Cerra or similar will be our target next year

 

[AlecDuncan]

I think it’s impossible to see how any rookie gets anywhere near a game anyway.

I can see WOWie getting a game ahead of Garlett, and even Pickett. It depends on whether he can bring that Eddie Betts-like intensity from the basketball court to the football arena.

 

[Doro]

All selections / trades have an element of risk. Can't see how selecting someone who was rated by the club as top 10 this year in a strong draft any riskier than a potential top five in a weaker draft next year. In addition we have a 'second hit' with another (potentially) later 1st rounder.

I like the Stocker pick, but think of the price tag we had on the Walsh pick this year. It's a gamble on performance in 2019, so fingers crossed it works out in our favour and not the Crows.

 

[footyfan1978]

I think we will trade it regardless. A Cerra or similar will be our target next year

Not so sure. Our next problem we not had for two decades will be retaining talent we have than trying to find ways of getting talent in from other clubs as we not got enough ourselves.
I going to enjoy this next phase of a surplus of talent to keep. It will be here before we know it as fans.

 

[Robertio]

I think we will trade it regardless. A Cerra or similar will be our target next year

Agree, i think our recruiting department are travelling beautifully.

 

[Soapy V]

Agree, i think our recruiting department are travelling beautifully.

I just think we will really start targeting ready to go and needs players. FA will play a big part as well. I only expect 4-6 changes next year. The base of our list is set

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I like the Stocker pick, but think of the price tag we had on the Walsh pick this year. It's a gamble on performance in 2019, so fingers crossed it works out in our favour and not the Crows.

As much as I don't like doing the Cows any favours, it could well be a win win scenario.

 

[AlecDuncan]

I think we will trade it regardless. A Cerra or similar will be our target next year

Unless the Crows implode totally and finish last. The cleaners would be busy mopping exploded heads, but stranger things have happened - Freo 2016 for example.

That would be a nice problem to have.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Pardon my intolerance for bullshit but... Did we address our needs?? Of course we did, the biggest hole in our list was the midfield!!! You add the peripherals once the main part is set.

 

[skadoosh]

What we did was perfectly fine in principle, but did we take the player we really needed?
That's not a slight on Stocker as he may end up a wonderful player but at the expense of.....Kennedy?
Does it matter if we took the three best players in the draft if they all happened to be full-backs? I think it matters.

Again, the principle of the trade was sound, but did we take the player we deemed to be best, or the player we needed most?
We'll never know but have to 'trust' that next year starts to fill the gaps that this draft hasn't covered up for us.

Who are the top 5 draft prospects for next year?
Does Liam Stocker have a good chance of being better than that pick over the course of his career?
Would Carlton have preferred another pick this year, especially given we rated him quite highly compared to picking another player next year?
Whose spot did Liam take if we didn't pick him?