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List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

  • Thread starter Thread starter HalAlaric
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HARKER said:
What do we expect?
A littler more ambition in filling obvious gaps wouldn't have hurt.
Maybe those players simply weren't there or maybe we didn't look hard enough.
Hard to tell, but I don't see what Goddard will do for us, other than clutter up the NB's back-line.
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Which players would you have preferred?
 
Nori said:
Ballsy, yes. But, you can’t really factor in the form of Stocker in his first year because a top five pick could easily go pear shaped as well.

Carlton’s spin on the trade was that it was a no brainer once Stocker started to slip into the teens. At worst they rated him at pick 10 but potentially it could have been 3-4 places higher than that.

So the trade’s middle ground would be a let’s say future pick 5 for a let’s say pick 8 and a future pick 13.

I’d do that in a heart beat, especially when you get to draft the player a year earlier.
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The market value for Stocker this year was around pick 20. Pick 8 is only Carlton’s assessment, not the market. He doesn’t suddenly become pick 8 because that’s what we want to believe to make ourselves feel better. I’m not saying you ignore your own rating but market value and what you personally think it’s worth are both relevant.

Ultimately time will tell where he sits in this draft and whether we overpaid, but definitely not a no brainer.

Regarding stockers form in first year, it’s not that it’s going to define how good he is but it will alter perception of the deal. Right now stocker could be anything in our minds. After his first year we will see him in a more practical light and the reality of the deal will be more evident.


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gandaal said:
Finbar probably has the worst highlights package of any drafted player I've ever seen.
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I must admit, I wasn't really blown away when I watched them, but we need to trust our recruiters that he has an upside that we require into the future.

It was kind of funny though when they called his name...watching Fox Footy, and when they call some kid's name, Shifter Sheehan blurts out his regulation "great kid, good speed on the outside, clean hands etc etc"...when Finbar's name was called, I don't think Shifter had a clue who he was except he played for the Murray Bushrangers :D
 
AT97 said:
You should read what his espn colleague (knightmare) wrote about us. Pretty sure he Graded us worst performed (or pretty close to it) for the draft period.
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Read it out of curiosity, written with contempt and hope of our failure. If it was in print it would deserve full exposure as lining the bottom of the birdcage.
 
Bamboo Harvester said:
I must admit, I wasn't really blown away when I watched them, but we need to trust our recruiters that he has an upside that we require into the future.
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It's not the sort of name you call out by accident. I hope there's more to him than what's in the vid.
 
AT97 said:
You should read what his espn colleague (knightmare) wrote about us. Pretty sure he Graded us worst performed (or pretty close to it) for the draft period.
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He loves Lukosius, rates Collier-Dawkins highly, and also felt McKenzie was a top 30 talent. We passed over all three with our first three picks.

FWIW, I agree with him on Lukosius and to a lesser extent McKenzie. Stocker vs. RCD is a classic case of production vs upside, with Stocker edging him out in my books. If people think Stocker needs to work on his endurance, RCD is a whole other tier down, and arguably 3 pre-seasons away from being able to properly rotate into the midfield, let alone start there.

Every club effectively passed over McKenzie 4-8 times, so there's got to be a story there.
 
ray8182 said:
The market value for Stocker this year was around pick 20. Pick 8 is only Carlton’s assessment, not the market. He doesn’t suddenly become pick 8 because that’s what we want to believe to make ourselves feel better. I’m not saying you ignore your own rating but market value and what you personally think it’s worth are both relevant.

Ultimately time will tell where he sits in this draft and whether we overpaid, but definitely not a no brainer.

Regarding stockers form in first year, it’s not that it’s going to define how good he is but it will alter perception of the deal. Right now stocker could be anything in our minds. After his first year we will see him in a more practical light and the reality of the deal will be more evident.


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True, but if SOS had picked him at 8, his market value would have been 8. Ultimately you pay what you are comfortable with. Dare I say SOS was thinking "can't believe he's still available"
 
thylacine60 said:
don't think I've ever read a knightmare phantom - don't think I ever will..........
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He doesn’t get much right when he turns his scouting into club analysis and trying to determine needs.

Essentially, he’s worth a read for his basic scouting but beyond that he doesn’t really seem to be of much use
 

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ray8182 said:
The market value for Stocker this year was around pick 20. Pick 8 is only Carlton’s assessment, not the market. He doesn’t suddenly become pick 8 because that’s what we want to believe to make ourselves feel better. I’m not saying you ignore your own rating but market value and what you personally think it’s worth are both relevant.

Ultimately time will tell where he sits in this draft and whether we overpaid, but definitely not a no brainer.

Regarding stockers form in first year, it’s not that it’s going to define how good he is but it will alter perception of the deal. Right now stocker could be anything in our minds. After his first year we will see him in a more practical light and the reality of the deal will be more evident.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
you know what you can do with your clear-headed rationale and logic.........
 
The Flying Doormat said:
True, but if SOS had picked him at 8, his market value would have been 8. Ultimately you pay what you are comfortable with. Dare I say SOS was thinking "can't believe he's still available"
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You’re boiling it all down to sos. One person can set any price in a market if they are willing to over pay. In this case multiple clubs kept overlooking stocker. Carlton’s assessment is at odds with a number of clubs. It is more complicated than this because clubs have particular needs and maybe some clubs overlooked him because of this. But pick 8 to pick 20 is a big gap where a number of clubs chose someone else first.


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Jimmae said:
He loves Lukosius, rates Collier-Dawkins highly, and also felt McKenzie was a top 30 talent. We passed over all three with our first three picks.

FWIW, I agree with him on Lukosius and to a lesser extent McKenzie. Stocker vs. RCD is a classic case of production vs upside, with Stocker edging him out in my books. If people think Stocker needs to work on his endurance, RCD is a whole other tier down, and arguably 3 pre-seasons away from being able to properly rotate into the midfield, let alone start there.

Every club effectively passed over McKenzie 4-8 times, so there's got to be a story there.
Click to expand...
I should add to this that in regards to Finbar vs McKenzie, we traded down twice late in the draft as we recognised we weren't taking the best projected talent over the next 2-3 years, but had instead decided to make an investment in Finbar's character and scope for growth.

So we let Geelong, Fremantle, Melbourne and St Kilda scrap it out over mature aged recruits and re-established ourselves in the 4th and 5th round of the 2019 draft.

Had we been able to get ahead of Richmond for Fraser Turner, I suspect we would have. I also suspect Geelong was expecting us to take Jake Tarca.
 
AT97 said:
You should read what his espn colleague (knightmare) wrote about us. Pretty sure he Graded us worst performed (or pretty close to it) for the draft period.
Click to expand...
Thats a ripping article and is is spot on finally someone that knows what they are talking about, nailed all the salient points perfectly. Wasn’t his name Matt Walsh, any relation.
 

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ray8182 said:
The market value for Stocker this year was around pick 20. Pick 8 is only Carlton’s assessment, not the market. He doesn’t suddenly become pick 8 because that’s what we want to believe to make ourselves feel better. I’m not saying you ignore your own rating but market value and what you personally think it’s worth are both relevant.

Ultimately time will tell where he sits in this draft and whether we overpaid, but definitely not a no brainer.

Regarding stockers form in first year, it’s not that it’s going to define how good he is but it will alter perception of the deal. Right now stocker could be anything in our minds. After his first year we will see him in a more practical light and the reality of the deal will be more evident.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Bamboo Harvester said:
I must admit, I wasn't really blown away when I watched them, but we need to trust our recruiters that he has an upside that we require into the future.

It was kind of funny though when they called his name...watching Fox Footy, and when they call some kid's name, Shifter Sheehan blurts out his regulation "great kid, good speed on the outside, clean hands etc etc"...when Finbar's name was called, I don't think Shifter had a clue who he was except he played for the Murray Bushrangers :D
Click to expand...
I think his speed and tackling as well as second and third efforts where the highlights, those all looked very good.
 

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