Census 2016

[Dugdale2Dwyer]

Did mine monday night, didn't have any issues, people in this country have to start using their brains a bit more.

 

[Messenger]

I never do this shit. Don't know why anyone else does.

Don't kid yourself that the data isn't abused.

I just alerted ASIO to your existence.

 

[Messenger]

Did mine monday night, didn't have any issues, people in this country have to start using their brains a bit more.

Interesting how the nature of the census has changed by delivering it in a different method.

As a paper exercise the idea was that you record the people in your home to get a snapshot of that night. Now we're all to busy doing **** knows what.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Interesting how the nature of the census has changed by delivering it in a different method.

As a paper exercise the idea was that you record the people in your home to get a snapshot of that night. Now we're all to busy doing **** knows what.

Big Footy. Hanging around stupid Scats / Poo and Wee threads.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

ABS claims they are the victim of a cyber attack.

http://www.afr.com/news/census-website-attacked-by-hackers-abs-says-20160809-gqov9f

My response?

 

[Reynolds Number]

I did mine last week.

Ameteur hour to expect millions of people to use the one site in the one evening. And expect everyone to ring up one number to reset a password whilst not providing an online option to do so.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

ABS claims they are the victim of a cyber attack.

http://www.afr.com/news/census-website-attacked-by-hackers-abs-says-20160809-gqov9f

My response?

That was my response. Why would 'foreign hackers' commit a DOS attack? As far as I am aware DOS attacks are about taking something down, not getting access to information. There was the suggestion pre-Census night that the info being sent to IBM was plain text if a user was interrupted so maybe that was the goal, although that article said IBM could look at the data, not outsiders...?

Exploring the behaviour of the JavaScript code that implements the form, Warren demonstrated that if a user is interrupted, the saved data that pre-populates the form when the user resumes isn't decrypted at the user's browser.

The reason I was skeptical was the fact ABS was insistent throughout the night, despite clear problems, that everything was 'working smoothly'. DOS attacks are obvious, so why would they be saying it's all going smoothly? There has been a desire throughout the entire radical change to the Census to push things through and pretend there aren't problems. Spin over substance.

The phone-lines of course failed as well. That wasn't hackers, but is easily explained by all the people having to call due to #CensusFail.

 

[Jiska]

I did my census without any issues at 6pm, however on reflection I can't recall any question, other than my religion which was optional, that I don't answer every single year on my tax return.

Can't the ABS and and ATO shake hands and communicate?

 

[Jiska]

Haven't we always put our name on the census forms? Why is this now an issue?

Exactly.

And previously once we returned out Census forms, they were scanned in to computer systems anyway.

It's also no less secure than the ATO or any of the other myriad of Government agencies that hold personal data. I'd be a lot more concerned about the security of my ATO data than that of my Census data, which, let's be honest, is nothing more than where I live and what I earn.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

I did my census without any issues at 6pm, however on reflection I can't recall any question, other than my religion which was optional, that I don't answer every single year on my tax return.

Can't the ABS and and ATO shake hands and communicate?

Privacy laws make it difficult for government agencies and departments to share such information between them. It's often an issue when one government agency knows or suspects that a child is at risk but can't disclose that information to another agency (eg., the police) due to privacy restrictions.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

A DDoS attack is designed to flood a website with so much traffic that its servers can't handle the traffic and they overload and crash.

It's quite common for hackers to infect computers with malware that slave the computers together to launch a coordinated DDoS attack on a target and apparently, on the "Dark Net", you can hire mercenaries to do this for you quite cheaply.

It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that the ABS is actually telling the truth about the #censusfail, but it's also quite likely that the traffic spike at about 7.30pm AEST last night as people remembered to log on to complete their census was like an unintentional DDoS attack.

Based on the article I linked to last night, you have to wonder whether the load testing of the census site was sufficiently robust to handle a spike of traffic that, in hindsight, was perfectly foreseeable.

 

[pazza]

Had the paper form. Done in 5 minutes. No issues.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

According to the Digital Attack Map website, which tracks DDoS attacks (I don't vouch for its accuracy or veracity), there was no DDoS attack on Australia last night.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...eau-of-statistics-bungle-20160809-gqow3e.html

 

[Present Not Past]

Did it easily last night.
Now, as for trying to log onto the Centrelink link website for the first time - now that was a challenge

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

A DDoS attack is designed to flood a website with so much traffic that its servers can't handle the traffic and they overload and crash.

It's quite common for hackers to infect computers with malware that slave the computers together to launch a coordinated DDoS attack on a target and apparently, on the "Dark Net", you can hire mercenaries to do this for you quite cheaply.

It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that the ABS is actually telling the truth about the #censusfail, but it's also quite likely that the traffic spike at about 7.30pm AEST last night as people remembered to log on to complete their census was like an unintentional DDoS attack.

Based on the article I linked to last night, you have to wonder whether the load testing of the census site was sufficiently robust to handle a spike of traffic that, in hindsight, was perfectly foreseeable.

So the argument I guess would be that someone was annoyed enough by the privacy changes that they organised DOS attacks? Dunno about that.

And people keep claiming that there was no major change to the tracking of name stuff, except for how long it is kept, but the key thing for me is not that they are just keeping that name for longer or whatever the spin is, it's that they convert your name to a 'key' and that means that the next Census knows who you are and they can then track you over your life. I'm sure there are big benefits with this, but as per my limited understanding it wouldn't be that hard for someone within the ABS to find out everything about you. The info you put into a Census would be added to the 'longitudinal' study and you could then look for the encrypted data entry that matches the latest Census and you would know that was that person's data for their life. In light of metadata and ASIO desires for greater access, as well as the LNP's 'national security' focus, as well as the lack of explaining this before the Census was basically upon us, etc. the timing just looks like suss.

I also dislike how people claim 'you put more info on your FB'. A lot of people don't. A lot of people go out of their way to spread info around about how to undo whatever privacy-violating change FB has just implemented. That can be due to a lack of trust in how that info will be managed, or simply to stop ex-dates harassing them, for example. And that example is annoyingly still a bit relevant given Police records have been accessed by ex-partners.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Privacy Commissioner announces investigation into alleged cyber attack on the ABS.

https://www.oaic.gov.au/media-and-s...s-investigation-into-census-2016-cyber-attack

 

[coerced]

Obviously the Chinese set up a botnet in every Australian home on census night.

If you needed any further evidence that the Abbott government was the least competent at the activity of, you know, actually running government, read this

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...eau-of-statistics-bungle-20160809-gqow3e.html

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

That had already been posted:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...eau-of-statistics-bungle-20160809-gqow3e.html

The key bit I'm sure you're getting at is this:

With no leader, treasurer Joe Hockey and prime minister Tony Abbott had left the position at the top unfilled for the best part of a year, the ABS developed grander plans. It wanted to abandon the 2016 census altogether, moving from five-yearly to 10-yearly, to save $200 million. Told by the government that would require legislation that would be unlikely to get through the Senate, it decided to get extra value by using the names collected with the census to create permanent linkage keys. Previously destroyed after processing, they would be kept indefinitely in a separate file and used to link the answers to answers to census questions to the answers to other ABS surveys and data collected from organisations such as the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme and the Australian Tax Office. If it could find out whether Australians or certain ethnic backgrounds or family circumstances were more likely to claim certain tax deductions or be prescribed certain medicines it could sell the results.
The only problem was that it had put up the idea before to an independent privacy impact assessment, which had savaged it. So it conducted its own assessment in house, which found no problem. It published the results quietly late last year (there was nothing about in in the mainstream press) and then on the Friday before Christmas announced it would retain every name indefinitely in a press release misleadingly titled: ABS response to Privacy Impact Assessment.

By April it had backed down. It was going to keep the names for only four years, but it would keep the linkage keys created from them for as long as would be needed, which could be forever. Woefully unprepared to explain why it now wanted to retain names, it emphasised instead the digital nature of the census. It would save millions by posting login codes to most of the population rather than delivering forms. Had it delivered, or even posted, forms it would have had a backup. Instead it gave most of Australia only one way to submit census forms, emphasised the importance of the survey it had previously tried to ditch, threatened fines of $180 per day for people who didn't comply...

They then suggest the govt has been hands off, but this all smacks of the philosophy of privacy being less relevant thanks to social media, and using info to try and assist national security or welfare fraud or similar. It's an easy answer for people who can't think of a solution to their problem - let's access all the data we have and bring it all together. That's a fine ID, and part of the reasoning Hawke suggested an Australian ID card, but there are legitimate issues in linking all data together. Maybe they can work out a decent solution for that, but there doesn't appear to be one yet and a lot of people don't want this sort of 'big brother' approach.

 

[swingdog]

ABS claims they are the victim of a cyber attack.

http://www.afr.com/news/census-website-attacked-by-hackers-abs-says-20160809-gqov9f

My response?

As noted on Twitter, thins what happens when you piss off the Chinese swimming federation.

 

[Messenger]

According to the Digital Attack Map website, which tracks DDoS attacks (I don't vouch for its accuracy or veracity), there was no DDoS attack on Australia last night.

That's a pretty cool site. It does indicate that the data graphs represents the top 2% of DDOS attacks for that time period.

I don't think they're lying, but if you're going to set up a system like this then your best chance of not attracting attention is to say "the census is being held over six weeks, put your forms in by September 23rd" rather than "August 9th is the date".

 

[coerced]

That's a pretty cool site. It does indicate that the data graphs represents the top 2% of DDOS attacks for that time period.

I don't think they're lying, but if you're going to set up a system like this then your best chance of not attracting attention is to say "the census is being held over six weeks, put your forms in by September 23rd" rather than "August 9th is the date".

Bloke who tweeted it looks like he's just waiting for a mate.

 

[Halloween Jack]

My favourite bit was two Facebook friends who posted their refusal to fill in the census due to their privacy concerns and "the big government conspiracy".

Both these guys have their full name right there on facebook, have about 1,000 friends and often check in at their home address.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

My favourite bit was two Facebook friends who posted their refusal to fill in the census due to their privacy concerns and "the big government conspiracy".

Both these guys have their full name right there on facebook, have about 1,000 friends and often check in at their home address.

And?

Aside from 'checking in at their home address' that sounds pretty normal and there would be plenty of info not on there that a Census would track. Not to mention the fact people often present a better version of themselves online than is truthful. That's another downside of having a 'longitudinal' approach to the Census - people may be more tempted to misrepresent their actual situation because they're thinking of the life-long story and hoping to make it look better.

There wasn't any reason to decimate decades of good data with an unexplained radical change.

For me, it just looks like government over-reach. Talk to people who deal with stats in Govt and they will often point at people 'sharing all their info online anyway'. They want to go beyond what people previously thought was the line in the sand. And they have just tried to sneak it past us, instead of doing the hard work - working out a way to keep info secure. For better or worse there is a default 'security' in the lack of talk between institutions. The census is arguably the most invasive form of data collection and shouldn't be played with lightly.

 

[hamohawk1]

Attack of the Mack!?