Politics Centrelink

[Hawk Dork]

We know from Deloitte analysis that going back to the old rate would cost the economy $31.3 billion and 145,000 full-time jobs over the next two years,” Dr Goldie said.

Morrison right to wind up JobKeeper: RBA boss

Philip Lowe told the National Press Club the permanent level of unemployment assistance is a question of fairness for Australians.

www.afr.com

 

[Rotayjay]

Still think they could do the same crap job cheaper.
Like they could replace the staff with chimpanzee's but then they'd need to find jobs for the staff.

Much of the call centre and processing work has been outsourced to low-paid employees in private call centres these days so make of that what you will.

Centrelink literally has a Master Plan to take them from 2020 to 2025. The stated aims are to make it simple, helpful, respectful and transparent. At least they know what they are starting from.

Simple? It's needlessly complicated.

Helpful? Low rates of $40 per day and staff who often cannot do anything to help anything.

Respectful? Robodebt.

Transparent? Good joke, tell another one!

 

[Over The Post]

tl;dr
"we'll go under if we don't get pickers"
<applies for picking jobs>
"**** off we only go through agencies or labour hire companies, let them rip you off not us"

'I'm willing to do anything': Would-be fruit picker rejected from jobs as industry faces 26,000 worker shortage

An unemployed man who says he'd be "willing to live out of his car" to get a fruit-picking job is calling for the industry to be more open-minded as it seeks to solve its ongoing labour shortage.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Frank Bunn]

Apparently, because of the lockdowns last year in Victoria there is a big shortage of driving instructors. You have to complete a Certificate IV in Transport and Logistics (Road Transport – Car Driving Instruction) (TLI41218). Plus Working With Children Check because many learners will be under 18.

 

[Over The Post]

Five years on, and just as true today:


Followed up by this TED talk in 2019:

 

[Dry Rot]

Interesting hypocrisy here by ScoMo's govt.

Jobseeker folk who make genuine mistakes get hounded mercilessly, Robodebts etc

Businesess who make genuine mistakes with Jobkeeper do not

IPA backs ATO decision not to claw back $50 million in JobKeeper payments made in error

IPA backs ATO decision not to claw back $50 million in JobKeeper payments made in error

A leading accounting group has backed the ATO’s decision not to pursue $50 million in JobKeeper payments from SMEs that made genuine errors.

www.smartcompany.com.au

 

[Crusey]

Started the NEIS small business course today

Was supposed to be 2 days a week for 5 weeks (Via Microsoft teams)

Apparently in the last few days the government have told NEIS providers to change the timetabling and its now one day a week for 13 weeks

 

[Over The Post]

<shakes head sadly>

There is so much involved in getting off the ground, you really need those two sessions a week to start with. Oh well, that's government for you.

 

[Crusey]

Apparently the payment doesnt change from Jobseeker to NEIS until you've completed the course and extending it to 13 weeks seems weird

Interested to see what happens with mutual obligations etc ... as I assume I'm free from them for the next 13 weeks

 

[Over The Post]

They've changed it then, the very first day of the NEIS course we filled in forms and trooped down to Centrelink as a class, they phoned ahead so we didn't have to wait and were seen by one person familiar with the job. 99.99% certain you'll be fine for the exemption, but we are dealing with Centrelink here.

Just had a look at the DESE website and like Bunnings it has everything except the information you actually need. I saw nothing about payments only starting once the course was finished, only about having to meet NEIS obligations (meet with your mentors, do your paperwork on time).

They may be going through a loophole, the payment is (up to) 39 weeks from the start of your business. The service provider may be taking the road that training doesn't count as business, therefore you get 13 weeks of jobseeker and the 39 weeks starts at the end of the course. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[Rotayjay]

Apparently the payment doesnt change from Jobseeker to NEIS until you've completed the course and extending it to 13 weeks seems weird

Interested to see what happens with mutual obligations etc ... as I assume I'm free from them for the next 13 weeks

Likely exempt but you can call Centrelink (and give up 45 minutes) to check whether there is an exemption on your file.

 

[Rotayjay]

Rumour has it that the Jobseeker Payment will get a permanent boost and they will scrap most of the miserly 'supplements'. They will keep Jobseeker recipients hanging for a few more weeks before announcing their decision of what to do. Significant chance the government will simply say 'What? Of course the Coronavirus Supplement is ending and it will revert to the old rate - we said all along that the boost was temporary!'

Coalition proposal would boost jobseeker but take away extra benefits

Abolishing supplementary payments without raising rate substantially would leave jobless worse off, union says

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Over The Post]

No consensus on effectiveness of controversial Cashless Debit Card program

A review of the government's Cashless Debit Card program finds evidence of a decrease in alcohol use and gambling in trial areas, but participants of the program report feeling "embarrassment and shame".

www.abc.net.au

Report based on research carried out 18 months to two years ago, and excluded Bundaberg / Hervey Bay.

Just keep the waters muddied enough to allow Indue to keep sucking at that teat for an indefinite trial period.

Cashless card a problem for families after local school shoes trader walks away

A charity has stepped in to deliver hundreds of pairs of shoes to children in Ceduna, where some parents are struggling with a contentious cashless welfare card scheme.

www.abc.net.au

****ing sociopathic idealogues.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No consensus on effectiveness of controversial Cashless Debit Card program

A review of the government's Cashless Debit Card program finds evidence of a decrease in alcohol use and gambling in trial areas, but participants of the program report feeling "embarrassment and shame".

www.abc.net.au

Report based on research carried out 18 months to two years ago, and excluded Bundaberg / Hervey Bay.

Just keep the waters muddied enough to allow Indue to keep sucking at that teat for an indefinite trial period.

Cashless card a problem for families after local school shoes trader walks away

A charity has stepped in to deliver hundreds of pairs of shoes to children in Ceduna, where some parents are struggling with a contentious cashless welfare card scheme.

www.abc.net.au

******* sociopathic idealogues.

At 80% you could have as little as $100 cash per fortnight ( plenty for second hand shoes, not so much for second hand tyres or furniture ) . They would probably need to increase the cash component for it to work past a trial.
In fact it would probably need to be tailor made for each recipient so that the card really only had enough for the weekly essentials - Groceries, Rent , Utilities.
I don't mind it as a concept, however it could already be obsolete.
We want low income people to be able to make the most of their money, and that means online shopping. We want people in remote area's to be able to purchase things they need without having a Bunnings or BigW on every corner. That also means online shopping.
If the card was able to work with PayPal, it wouldn't be hard for the local "Booze R Us " store to install paypal facilities and make the whole thing useless.

 

[Gethelred]

At 80% you could have as little as $100 cash per fortnight ( plenty for second hand shoes, not so much for second hand tyres or furniture ) . They would probably need to increase the cash component for it to work past a trial.
In fact it would probably need to be tailor made for each recipient so that the card really only had enough for the weekly essentials - Groceries, Rent , Utilities.
I don't mind it as a concept, however it could already be obsolete.
We want low income people to be able to make the most of their money, and that means online shopping. We want people in remote area's to be able to purchase things they need without having a Bunnings or BigW on every corner. That also means online shopping.
If the card was able to work with PayPal, it wouldn't be hard for the local "Booze R Us " store to install paypal facilities and make the whole thing useless.

The problem becomes, how can they know that the recipient is purchasing alcohol/smokes with the cash stipend rather than using it where it should go?

It's stupid, because without receipts they can't know.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The problem becomes, how can they know that the recipient is purchasing alcohol/smokes with the cash stipend rather than using it where it should go?

It's stupid, because without receipts they can't know.

True, but I've run into people i knew who were walking round a Melbourne suburban indoor shopping mall drinking from UDL can's while pushing a trolley with a single large packet of party pies.
Seems the kids were hungry and they'd run out of food.

A cashless component of the welfare would just make sure they didn't spend it ALL on booze and pokies.

 

[Gethelred]

True, but I've run into people i knew who were walking round a Melbourne suburban indoor shopping mall drinking from UDL can's while pushing a trolley with a single large packet of party pies.
Seems the kids were hungry and they'd run out of food.

A cashless component of the welfare would just make sure they didn't spend it ALL on booze and pokies.

I understand the idea behind it, even as I don't agree with it. No matter how you split the payment between cash and the Indue card, you're going to butt your head against it at some point; you'll pay for what you need in cash one week, but next your car will blow out a few tires and you can't pay to get it fixed because the retreads you'd normally buy need a cash payment.

I don't know the answer, but I do not think the cashless welfare card is the solution to this problem. It's a prohibitionist, privacy invasive policy that doesn't do what it's there to do.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I understand the idea behind it, even as I don't agree with it. No matter how you split the payment between cash and the Indue card, you're going to butt your head against it at some point; you'll pay for what you need in cash one week, but next your car will blow out a few tires and you can't pay to get it fixed because the retreads you'd normally buy need a cash payment.

I don't know the answer, but I do not think the cashless welfare card is the solution to this problem. It's a prohibitionist, privacy invasive policy that doesn't do what it's there to do.

Yeah its too tricky to make work.
Would end up being way too complicated.
Its just sad that there are people who need to be coerced into caring for their family.
We already have restrictions on cash that can be withdrawn from machines in gaming venues, which is also prohibitionist. A lot of gamblers don't have a problem with that. They know they would withdraw cash in a moment of weakness and regret it later.
I don't know how a cashless card would invade privacy any more than any other credit card.

Other addictions with a physical component can be far worse.

Personally i think i could live with one so long as it worked for online transactions- ie paypal.

 

[Over The Post]

Have you not been listening for the last three years or so? People having to travel 150km to fill up their car because the local motel with petrol pumps also sells beer, and they had their accreditation pulled? Not being able to buy second-hand school uniforms or shoes or a myriad of other things on gumtree or facebook groups because that $100 cash was needed for something else, or had already gone?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Have you not been listening for the last three years or so? People having to travel 150km to fill up their car because the local motel with petrol pumps also sells beer, and they had their accreditation pulled? Not being able to buy second-hand school uniforms or shoes or a myriad of other things on gumtree or facebook groups because that $100 cash was needed for something else, or had already gone?

That's why you "trial" shit.
But i thought we were discussing the general concept.
That doesn't mean that i think the current system they are trialling is well thought out and executed.

Bare in mind , that for some of the cases where they want to use these sorts of cards.

They will have no money for petrol. They already spent it on booze.
They will have no money to buy school uniforms , they already spent it on booze.
The card just makes sure they don't spend it all on booze.

If you only had enough money on the card for weekly food and rent, are you suggesting they should spend that food money on petrol?

 

[Over The Post]

***some***

***some***

***some***

Some campaigners drink and drive.

Some campaigners get high and drive.

Let's have a trial where we take away the car keys from everyone and give them taxi vouchers instead. You can't take an uber, or your local independent taxi driver, because we have a contract with only these specific taxi companies. What's that? It costs three times as much? Not our problem, look, the drink drive and drug driving has dropped by a few percent in our cherry picked data. It's working! What's that? You have to wait an hour for an ABC taxi to come from the next town over, instead of your bloke around the corner? Sorry, there's always edge cases. This is why we trial this. The trial has been going on long enough? No, no, we're waiting for the figures to come out on our side before we make it permanent. In the meantime our mates who own the contracted taxi companies are doing fine.


***some***

You're really happy to stigmatise, penalise and put the boot in to an awful lot of people to justify your ***some***.

The point is, people are being FORCED to buy NEW items, online or not, instead of far more affordable alternatives. Or from approved supermarkets/retailers at full price instead of local markets / roadside stalls etc. And yet it's their fault if they cannot budget or make ends meet.

 

[Kingpin]

So sick of these people whingeing about how hard they work and how the dole is too comfortable.

It's my experience, generally, that people who blither on incessantly about how hard they work generally don't work very hard at all.

 

[Rotayjay]

More rumours floating around in the Canberra Press Gallery that the government is considering an insurance-based model. The idea is that a person gets up to 70% of their last wage upon becoming unemployed, for 6 months, and then goes onto $40 per day after 6 months on Jobseeker Payment. The funding would come from scrapping the superannuation increase and employers paying into an unemployment fund instead.

I'm not convinced, to say the least.

 

[GreyCrow]

More rumours floating around in the Canberra Press Gallery that the government is considering an insurance-based model. The idea is that a person gets up to 70% of their last wage upon becoming unemployed, for 6 months, and then goes onto $40 per day after 6 months on Jobseeker Payment. The funding would come from scrapping the superannuation increase and employers paying into an unemployment fund instead.

I'm not convinced, to say the least.

Isn't that similar to the American model?

 

[Rotayjay]

Isn't that similar to the American model?

It is, and most other OECD nations including some of the famous Nordic countries.

One of the ideas behind it is that it would cushion the shock of going from working to living off Centrelink, and the six-month cliff would provide an incentive to find some sort of work before your rate drops dramatically. Does that help people who can't find stable suitable work or who employers don't seem to want (people over 55 for example)? Nope.