Politics Centrelink

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SaintsSeptember

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The problem becomes, how can they know that the recipient is purchasing alcohol/smokes with the cash stipend rather than using it where it should go?

It's stupid, because without receipts they can't know.
True, but I've run into people i knew who were walking round a Melbourne suburban indoor shopping mall drinking from UDL can's while pushing a trolley with a single large packet of party pies.
Seems the kids were hungry and they'd run out of food.

A cashless component of the welfare would just make sure they didn't spend it ALL on booze and pokies.
 

Gethelred

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True, but I've run into people i knew who were walking round a Melbourne suburban indoor shopping mall drinking from UDL can's while pushing a trolley with a single large packet of party pies.
Seems the kids were hungry and they'd run out of food.

A cashless component of the welfare would just make sure they didn't spend it ALL on booze and pokies.
I understand the idea behind it, even as I don't agree with it. No matter how you split the payment between cash and the Indue card, you're going to butt your head against it at some point; you'll pay for what you need in cash one week, but next your car will blow out a few tires and you can't pay to get it fixed because the retreads you'd normally buy need a cash payment.

I don't know the answer, but I do not think the cashless welfare card is the solution to this problem. It's a prohibitionist, privacy invasive policy that doesn't do what it's there to do.
 

SaintsSeptember

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I understand the idea behind it, even as I don't agree with it. No matter how you split the payment between cash and the Indue card, you're going to butt your head against it at some point; you'll pay for what you need in cash one week, but next your car will blow out a few tires and you can't pay to get it fixed because the retreads you'd normally buy need a cash payment.

I don't know the answer, but I do not think the cashless welfare card is the solution to this problem. It's a prohibitionist, privacy invasive policy that doesn't do what it's there to do.
Yeah its too tricky to make work.
Would end up being way too complicated.
Its just sad that there are people who need to be coerced into caring for their family.
We already have restrictions on cash that can be withdrawn from machines in gaming venues, which is also prohibitionist. A lot of gamblers don't have a problem with that. They know they would withdraw cash in a moment of weakness and regret it later.
I don't know how a cashless card would invade privacy any more than any other credit card.

Other addictions with a physical component can be far worse.

Personally i think i could live with one so long as it worked for online transactions- ie paypal.
 

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Over The Post

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Have you not been listening for the last three years or so? People having to travel 150km to fill up their car because the local motel with petrol pumps also sells beer, and they had their accreditation pulled? Not being able to buy second-hand school uniforms or shoes or a myriad of other things on gumtree or facebook groups because that $100 cash was needed for something else, or had already gone?
 

SaintsSeptember

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Have you not been listening for the last three years or so? People having to travel 150km to fill up their car because the local motel with petrol pumps also sells beer, and they had their accreditation pulled? Not being able to buy second-hand school uniforms or shoes or a myriad of other things on gumtree or facebook groups because that $100 cash was needed for something else, or had already gone?
That's why you "trial" sh*t.
But i thought we were discussing the general concept.
That doesn't mean that i think the current system they are trialling is well thought out and executed.

Bare in mind , that for some of the cases where they want to use these sorts of cards.

They will have no money for petrol. They already spent it on booze.
They will have no money to buy school uniforms , they already spent it on booze.
The card just makes sure they don't spend it all on booze.

If you only had enough money on the card for weekly food and rent, are you suggesting they should spend that food money on petrol?
 

Over The Post

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***some***

***some***

***some***

Some campaigners drink and drive.

Some campaigners get high and drive.

Let's have a trial where we take away the car keys from everyone and give them taxi vouchers instead. You can't take an uber, or your local independent taxi driver, because we have a contract with only these specific taxi companies. What's that? It costs three times as much? Not our problem, look, the drink drive and drug driving has dropped by a few percent in our cherry picked data. It's working! What's that? You have to wait an hour for an ABC taxi to come from the next town over, instead of your bloke around the corner? Sorry, there's always edge cases. This is why we trial this. The trial has been going on long enough? No, no, we're waiting for the figures to come out on our side before we make it permanent. In the meantime our mates who own the contracted taxi companies are doing fine.


***some***

You're really happy to stigmatise, penalise and put the boot in to an awful lot of people to justify your ***some***.

The point is, people are being FORCED to buy NEW items, online or not, instead of far more affordable alternatives. Or from approved supermarkets/retailers at full price instead of local markets / roadside stalls etc. And yet it's their fault if they cannot budget or make ends meet.
 

Rotayjay

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More rumours floating around in the Canberra Press Gallery that the government is considering an insurance-based model. The idea is that a person gets up to 70% of their last wage upon becoming unemployed, for 6 months, and then goes onto $40 per day after 6 months on Jobseeker Payment. The funding would come from scrapping the superannuation increase and employers paying into an unemployment fund instead.

I'm not convinced, to say the least.
 

GreyCrow

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More rumours floating around in the Canberra Press Gallery that the government is considering an insurance-based model. The idea is that a person gets up to 70% of their last wage upon becoming unemployed, for 6 months, and then goes onto $40 per day after 6 months on Jobseeker Payment. The funding would come from scrapping the superannuation increase and employers paying into an unemployment fund instead.

I'm not convinced, to say the least.
Isn't that similar to the American model?
 

Rotayjay

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Isn't that similar to the American model?
It is, and most other OECD nations including some of the famous Nordic countries.

One of the ideas behind it is that it would cushion the shock of going from working to living off Centrelink, and the six-month cliff would provide an incentive to find some sort of work before your rate drops dramatically. Does that help people who can't find stable suitable work or who employers don't seem to want (people over 55 for example)? Nope.
 

GreyCrow

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It is, and most other OECD nations including some of the famous Nordic countries.

One of the ideas behind it is that it would cushion the shock of going from working to living off Centrelink, and the six-month cliff would provide an incentive to find some sort of work before your rate drops dramatically. Does that help people who can't find stable suitable work or who employers don't seem to want (people over 55 for example)? Nope.
My concern is the idea that the employer pays and the super component is scrapped

It feels like the government wants to move away from funding this idea

As to your last point it doesn't affect long term unemployed as there shouldn't be a "bill shock" component

It does put working over 55s in a "take this pay cut or else" position
 

Rotayjay

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My concern is the idea that the employer pays and the super component is scrapped

It feels like the government wants to move away from funding this idea

As to your last point it doesn't affect long term unemployed as there shouldn't be a "bill shock" component

It does put working over 55s in a "take this pay cut or else" position
The Coalition doesn't like funding anything to do with helping the unemployed or poor. Puritan American ideology that a person of working age needs to support himself or herself, and that inability to support yourself results from your own choices which you can quickly reverse. It's fantasy, but Cabinet is full of blue-bloods - the kind that bang on about 'I've never once asked for handouts, always worked hard, blah blah'
 

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SaintsSeptember

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***some***

***some***

***some***

Some campaigners drink and drive.

Some campaigners get high and drive.

Let's have a trial where we take away the car keys from everyone and give them taxi vouchers instead. You can't take an uber, or your local independent taxi driver, because we have a contract with only these specific taxi companies. What's that? It costs three times as much? Not our problem, look, the drink drive and drug driving has dropped by a few percent in our cherry picked data. It's working! What's that? You have to wait an hour for an ABC taxi to come from the next town over, instead of your bloke around the corner? Sorry, there's always edge cases. This is why we trial this. The trial has been going on long enough? No, no, we're waiting for the figures to come out on our side before we make it permanent. In the meantime our mates who own the contracted taxi companies are doing fine.


***some***

You're really happy to stigmatise, penalise and put the boot in to an awful lot of people to justify your ***some***.

The point is, people are being FORCED to buy NEW items, online or not, instead of far more affordable alternatives. Or from approved supermarkets/retailers at full price instead of local markets / roadside stalls etc. And yet it's their fault if they cannot budget or make ends meet.
What do you think should happen?
Shall we ignore the "some".
No child shall live in poverty .....except "some". That's what old Bob should have said.
Every Australian shall have the right to starve their children so they can play pokies.
Or maybe those Australians should have their children placed in better hands.....ooops best not go there.
 

DaRick

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And of course the old favourite - "i HaVeNt HaD a SiCk DaY iN tHiRdY fOoOuR yEeEeArS!" 🤤
Clowns like this fall into three categories:

1) They're the old farts who crap on about how they always managed to secure work, not realising that times have changed.

2) They're the younger types who talk tough about how they could do any work if they had to, and chide others for being too snobby and arrogant to do so, but when it comes time to walk the walk they mysteriously aren't to be found.

3) They're the younger types who think that menial job providers are like charities, wherein they'll take on any unemployed person no matter what they've been doing before.
 

Rotayjay

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Then there's the - "mate, I know me sh*t, I been in this gig for thirty five 'ken years!"
Reality - knows jack sh*t...tits on bull :tearsofjoy:
I never lived in this time, but I've heard some stories about a time when a person could walk into a business in Australia, ask for an entry-level job, and then spend thirty plus years there working their way up.
 

DaRick

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I never lived in this time, but I've heard some stories about a time when a person could walk into a business in Australia, ask for an entry-level job, and then spend thirty plus years there working their way up.
In the early 1970's, my father started out his career in Warwick (a town in SE Qld, around 150 km southwest of Brisbane) as a bank teller, and managed to become a fairly high-ranking bank manager within around 10 years.

Even in the late 1980's and early 1990's, he was earning good money (100k+) and was untouched by the early 1990's recession.

Good luck doing that nowadays. Many of the jobs in regional areas were linked to the local bank in some way, shape or form, and many (most?) of those have gone due to automation, offshoring and rationalisations.
 

eddiesmith

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DaRick

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From the "well, duhh" file:

I remember MacroBusiness speculating that JobMaker would do precisely this six months ago.

It's one of those ideas that seems reasonable enough on paper but in practice would be difficult to apply properly because it's too easy to rort as is.
 

Chief

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I remember MacroBusiness speculating that JobMaker would do precisely this six months ago.

It's one of those ideas that seems reasonable enough on paper but in practice would be difficult to apply properly because it's too easy to rort as is.
As long as the LNP can use it to funnel money to donors, it’s allllll good.
 

Rotayjay

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Drum roll please ... the Jobseeker Payment will permanently rise by $25 per week.

What an utterly disgraceful decision. This was deliberately designed to tick a box and say that 'look at us, we listened' while the actual increase is so small as to be meaningless. Twenty five bucks will pay for a few more meals or a bit of fuel, but it is almost nothing in the broader context.

******* disgusting campaigners. No care for the Australian people whatsoever.
 

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