Prediction Changes Dogs V North 18/6/2013

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Golden_6

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Aug 15, 2014
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What's the alternative people?

  • We accept that Bruce, Jones and O'Donnell needed to be dropped and one VFL plodder over another is still better than those three.
  • Suggestions that we play the kids is off the mark. Even if their bodies were ready, their VFL form doesn't merit it, and getting their hands on it 20 times in the VFL is far better than getting their hands on it 7 times or whatever at AFL level.
  • We simply have no young and up and coming depth by simple fact of the realities of list management decisions over the last 5-10 years. A combination of winning most of our games leading to lower draft picks, recruiting players like Keath, Treloar, Bruce and Croizer, all of which were correct trades to execute, and getting two top 2 prospects, means we simply haven't had the turnover of 20+ players in the 20-50 draft range in 8 years.
  • And people have rose tinted view of how various' players past form has been. I thought Cleary was okay for 2 games last year but was still 2 games and hasn't been outstanding in VFL this year. Buku Khamis played some awful games last year.

As people have rightfully pointed out if we had brought in the whipping boys over A. Jones and O'Donnell over the last 3 weeks we would have been far more likely to win any of those 3 games even though, you know, those two have come in for far less criticism in the aftermath of each of those games compared to the usual whipping boys.
I genuinely never want to see guys like McComb or Hannan on a team sheet again. I just have no idea why we persist with older guys who have no improvement in them and simply aren’t good enough. It makes no sense.

I’m not saying that should be in the 22 but I’d much prefer to see names like Cleary, Poulter, heck even Roarke over some of those names.
 
I genuinely never want to see guys like McComb or Hannan on a team sheet again. I just have no idea why we persist with older guys who have no improvement in them and simply aren’t good enough. It makes no sense.

I’m not saying that should be in the 22 but I’d much prefer to see names like Cleary, Poulter, heck even Roarke over some of those names.
Because the theoretical impact on the difference between 14 and 13 wins or whatever this year adds far more probability in the chance of us winning a future flag (this year's) than the probability that one more game to a youngster who may or may not hack it, with VFL form that isn't deserving of a game, helps us win a flag in 2024 or in the future, because it's virtually nil.

Gifting games to some random fourth round pick for the sake of it isn't how teams build winning cultures!

Nowhere near the same sport but this theme exists everywhere. Vegas just won their second Stanley Cup in six years of existence because every other NHL team decided to keep young players many of which never made it to NHL level and Vegas were almost forced to pick older players who were fringe NHL talents. It's a mental fallacy because it's better fan communication and easier for people to keep jobs if they can sell hope in the future, even if unrealistic.
 

Charlie Bucket

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Yes, it's partly the realisation that our depth is not that good which is doing heads in. But a big part would be the lack of decent prospects coming through. The lack of something to hope for. These team selections have simply driven those two realities home.

What gets footy fans going every year, even in the darkest years, is the promise of some exciting talent emerging. The bright new hope on the horizon. Apart from maybe West and Baker (both debatable) there is nobody on that extended bench who looks like developing beyond their exposed form. And in most cases that form has been mediocre. Crozier's best form has been better than mediocre but he's 30 next year, and perhaps there's a case for Scott too but he's no spring chicken either. He's 28 already.

So it's not just the lack of depth, it's the realisation that we have nobody much coming through. We've been pumping games into our two most likely prospects - Arty Jones and James O'Donnell - but it has become obvious that they aren't doing enough right now to hold their spot. It's the yearning for hope that makes people happier if Cleary, Khamis or Busslinger get a game this week even if they produce no more than McComb, Hannan or McNeil would.

The fact is that most if not all of those picked this week have shown more than those left in the VFL. That's how it should be. Selection integrity!

Clarke and Gallagher have barely fired a shot in the VFL so far (Gallagher perhaps because of injury) so even our second and third round selections from last year aren't looking like successes. Not yet anyway. There is still plenty of time for them both. Altogether though, it's a bleak outlook.

If we're totally honest Cleary and Khamis are expendable. Cleary is contracted to 2025 so there is some hope that he'll still make it and it looks like he'll get that chance. However he is already 21 so he'll need to bulk up and start showing something pretty soon. On the other hand it wouldn't surprise to see Khamis delisted this coming off season and I can't see too many here getting greatly upset about it.

I have little doubt that whoever plays on Sunday instead of Jones and O'Donnell will give us more than those two did over the last week or two. We just have to be happy with that small mercy ... and hope there are no more injuries to any of our best 16.

Nah, I could’ve gone harder.

You’re a smart poster DW, surely you realise how ridiculous these selection melts are getting?
 

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Charlie Bucket

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2015
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Yes, it's partly the realisation that our depth is not that good which is doing heads in. But a big part would be the lack of decent prospects coming through. The lack of something to hope for. These team selections have simply driven those two realities home.

What gets footy fans going every year, even in the darkest years, is the promise of some exciting talent emerging. The bright new hope on the horizon. Apart from maybe West and Baker (both debatable) there is nobody on that extended bench who looks like developing beyond their exposed form. And in most cases that form has been mediocre. Crozier's best form has been better than mediocre but he's 30 next year, and perhaps there's a case for Scott too but he's no spring chicken either. He's 28 already.

So it's not just the lack of depth, it's the realisation that we have nobody much coming through. We've been pumping games into our two most likely prospects - Arty Jones and James O'Donnell - but it has become obvious that they aren't doing enough right now to hold their spot. It's the yearning for hope that makes people happier if Cleary, Khamis or Busslinger get a game this week even if they produce no more than McComb, Hannan or McNeil would.

The fact is that most if not all of those picked this week have shown more than those left in the VFL. That's how it should be. Selection integrity!

Clarke and Gallagher have barely fired a shot in the VFL so far (Gallagher perhaps because of injury) so even our second and third round selections from last year aren't looking like successes. Not yet anyway. There is still plenty of time for them both. Altogether though, it's a bleak outlook.

If we're totally honest Cleary and Khamis are expendable. Cleary is contracted to 2025 so there is some hope that he'll still make it and it looks like he'll get that chance. However he is already 21 so he'll need to bulk up and start showing something pretty soon. On the other hand it wouldn't surprise to see Khamis delisted this coming off season and I can't see too many here getting greatly upset about it.

I have little doubt that whoever plays on Sunday instead of Jones and O'Donnell will give us more than those two did over the last week or two. We just have to be happy with that small mercy ... and hope there are no more injuries to any of our best 16.

I’d have more sympathy for those posters if their selection concerns were warranted, but they’re not. It’s not like Bevo’s leaving English to rot in the 2’s.

Saw it with West, saw it with Sweet, seen it with others. When they end up coming in and doing sweet f**k all, Crickets. We’ll eventually see it with Khamis and Cleary, and no doubt hear more Crickets. Then who’s going to be left? Maybe they’ll lose it over Sullivan not getting a game?
 
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Doggies7

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The only one of the extended bench that would really piss me off being included would be McComb. Not an AFL player, doesn't have a spot on the field for us and is a poor ball user when he does get it. Just a good VFL player, but he doesn't need to feature again at AFL level for us IMO. Hannan meh, been playing pretty well in the VFL but I don't want him in the team, at worst hopefully only being considered as the sub.
 

BulldogMuscle

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E0EDEE77-E155-4447-AED5-ECCC949156C5.gif
 

perro_loco

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ROUND 14 TEAM

North Melbourne v Western Bulldogs
Sunday 18 June, 4.40pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Taylor Duryea, Liam Jones, Alex Keath
HB: Bailey Dale, Tim O’Brien, Laith Vandermeer
C: Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Bailey Williams
HF: Bailey Smith, Aaron Naughton, Adam Treloar
F: Cody Weightman, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Rory Lobb
R: Tim English, Caleb Daniel, Tom Liberatore
Int: Oskar Baker, Rhylee West, Anthony Scott, Mitch Hannan, Lachlan McNeil, Ryan Gardner, Hayden Crozier, Robbie McComb

IN: T. O’Brien, M. Hannan, O. Baker, L. McNeil, R. Gardner, H. Crozier, R McComb
OUT: J. Bruce (Omitted), J. O’Donnell (Omitted), A. Jones (Omitted)
With these players we cannot win a premiership: O'Brien; Hannan; Baker; McNeil; Gardner; Crozier; McComb; West; Lobb. Unless something miraculous happens and they all improve by 20%.
 

perro_loco

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Some of the criticism directed to Hannan's selection on the extended bench is over the top. I am not a big fan and I wasn't happy with his continued selection in 2021 at times but...

This guy kicked 2.2 in an elimination final, 3.2 in a Prelim final, 2 of his best performances in a bulldogs jumper, so suggestions that he'll kick goals under no pressure and go to water in big games seem fairly revisionist.

He only got 7 games at senior level last year despite credits in the bank from performing in big finals so I don't think he should be considered a coach's pet.

He has goal kicking form with 8 goals across two vfl games while the senior side has been struggling to convert opportunities into scores.

I think he perhaps deserves a little more respect than he's getting from the fans here.
In conclusion, Hannan is a spud who deserves our respect for being a potato!
 

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In conclusion, Hannan is a spud who deserves our respect for being a potato!
No, just that he's provably played better than the guy who he is replacing, who had literally 0 touches from running around on the ground for 70% of it.

I don't get how people can criticise the team and be doomerist and say we're not going to play final, but then at the same time not think we have to pick between a bunch of bad players. If we didn't have bad players that we had to pick between, people wouldn't be saying that our team is bad and may not make finals?
 

geoffjennings79

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Bevo has had all week to plan, and taken note of what happened in the past 3 games. He can just sit back during the game, having adjusted our style of play, and let the game take its course.

Sheezel or Wardlaw will have a night out, North will lead at half time, but we'll come storming home in the second half, kicking 4.11 or similar, to roll North by 16-17 points.

And the coach will be triumphant in his presser, with all the ins having combined for less possies and impact than any single starting mid, but will all retain their spots for the important 8-point game against the bye the following week.
 

_Cerberus_

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I don't know why people are kicking up a stink about the bench. Yes it is not that inspiring. But we have six out with injuries, including two best 22 players, and a couple borderline. Some others we thought were borderline best 22 have been dropped for this week. No VFL based favorites aside from Cleary, have been playing consistent enough, or are not as good as some talk them up to be. Busslinger is not ready to man up vs bigger bodies, Khamis has had some quiet patches. Cleary is really the only one outside of the extended bench that could probably put his hand up.

Just goes to show our depth is indeed quite poor. But we have no one else to choose from, the hands are tied. You have to reward VFL form, otherwise you send the wrong message to playing group. Even if its a whipping boy. O'Brien came back because Bruce was very poor. Hannan has kicked a few goals.

Don't get the melts given it is a massive extended bench and not the final team yet. Wait until the finals teams are announced first. Some of you are acting like we have named eight McCombs to start. You all called for 3-4 outs, and you got it.
 
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hatescaptcha

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Yeah we don’t have much cattle left that are of AFL standard. Our list isn’t as good as we thought it was.

We need a big injection of elite young talent and turn this stale list over.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
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I don't know why people are kicking up a stink about the bench. Yes it is not that inspiring. But we have six out with injuries, including two best 22 players. Others we thought were borderline best 22 have been dropped. And no, the VFL based players aside from Cleary have not been playing consistent enough, or are not as good as some talk them up to be. Busslinger is not ready to man up vs bigger bodies, Khamis has had some quiet patches. Cleary is really the only one outside of the extended bench that could put his hand up.

Just goes to show our depth is indeed quite poor, with slow, turnover heavy, low impact players. But we have no one else to choose from, the hands are tied. Plus you have to reward VFL form, otherwise you send the wrong message to playing group.

Also it is a massive extended bench, save the melts until the final team has actually been announced. Some of you are acting like we have named eight McCombs to start.
This VFL "form" you talk about is smashing an undermanned Cats outfit and really just falling in against Frankston. Not really "form" iny book
 

King Harold

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Is Poulter injured ?
If not why in the hell did we draft him ?
Played all year and can’t even make an extended bench amongst that lot ?

When‘s training next week , I’m nailing in some stops and making a comeback !
 

Dogs Rule

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Bevo has had all week to plan, and taken note of what happened in the past 3 games. He can just sit back during the game, having adjusted our style of play, and let the game take its course.

Sheezel or Wardlaw will have a night out, North will lead at half time, but we'll come storming home in the second half, kicking 4.11 or similar, to roll North by 16-17 points.

And the coach will be triumphant in his presser, with all the ins having combined for less possies and impact than any single starting mid, but will all retain their spots for the important 8-point game against the bye the following week.

Are we certain we can't lose to the Bye?

Port drop their captain and say nobody is safe, we consistently reward spuds and replace spuds with spuds. I would happily cut eight to 10 from the list at the end of the year, wouldn't care about it being too deep. The sooner it happens the better. Funnily enough all our ins this week would be first to go.
 
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