Changes for next year, Round 1

[sregit]

After the Pre-Season training my eyes will be on Ross!, Stacky!!, Pickett!!!...

No Rance. That stuffs most posters starting lineups!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No Rance. That stuffs most posters starting lineups!

Looking back on the furore around my contributions in the earlier part of this thread gives me a bit of a chuckle now. I suggested the possibility of trading Rance and it is fair to say I wasn’t overwhelmed with support for the idea. Someone on another thread now joking he should have been traded to Carlton and f*ck that would have been seriously funny.

Anyway, now we have more or less our final list to work from, here are my thoughts surrounding our team for 2020.

I guess we revert to the GF backline setup as the default, and adjust from there according to form, development, injuries etc.

Broad Astbury Grimes
Short Vlastuin Houli

With Baker the 7th defender.

Balta(Astbury,) Garthwaite(Broad,Grimes) Mcintosh(Vlastuin,) Eggmolesse-Smith, Stack, Edwards(Houli, Short, Baker) look the six most obvious who can be moved into the backline as replacements. You could just about live with any of that bar Balta being the only option to play on the big bull forwards should Astbury miss matches. You would be a bit nervous at this stage of his career with him standing Hawkins, Franklin, Brown, Daniher etc if those guys were near their best.

We really needed to be bringing in another key defender in the trade period, and someone like Josh Walker as a spare might have given me a bit more reassurance. We have the SSP to identify someone there but I am struggling to think of any available player who could fulfil the role of backup key defender with any confidence. Nyuon is likely to be developed in the role but will be miles off AFL level, and the only other option I can really think of is Chol going back there, which is what I thought should have been done in 2019 when Rance was injured. Given Coleman-Jones looks ready to fill the position Chol played last year it would seem to make even more sense now but it does appear they have for some reason ruled Chol out of being a defensive option. When both Rance and Astbury missed last season v. Bulldogs, Crows and Cats opposition tall forwards Naughton, Bontempelli, Gowers, Hawkins, Ratugolea, Jenkins, Walker just feasted on us. When Rance and Grimes were missing v GWS then Cameron and Finlayson went seriously berserk. Any major injuries to Astbury OR Grimes we look in strife back there.

You would expect natural improvement from Balta and Garthwaite, and the latter should benefit also from a full pre-season, but other options are required and the loss of Rance could just straight out cost us a flag in certain scenarios.

The rest of the team looks overstocked with options and a lot might depend on how good Ross’s foot and Graham’s shoulder is.

My starting team:

Broad Astbury Grimes
Short Vlastuin Houli
Caddy Martin Bolton
Stack Riewoldt Rioli
Castagna Lynch Pickett

R: Soldo Cotchin Prestia

I/C: Lambert Nankervis Graham Edwards

Equally could slot in Ross, Baker.

Loads of other players to look forward to in 2020, Mcintosh, CCJ, RCD, Turner, Naish, Chol, Egg-Smith, Higgins, Balta, Garthwaite, the SSP/mid-season addition if we make one, and possibly some of the new draftees. God help us if we lose Astbury or Grimes though.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Without Rance we are a tad vulnerable down back now if injuries start to raise their heads...Houli's/Grimes Hammies...Arseberry's weird injuries...

 

[Marcel Proust]

Without Rance we are a tad vulnerable down back now if injuries start to raise their heads...Houli's/Grimes Hammies...Arseberry's weird injuries...

hopefully some of Chol, Naish, Baker, Balta etc.

are ready to go

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Without Rance we are a tad vulnerable down back now if injuries start to raise their heads...Houli's/Grimes Hammies...Arseberry's weird injuries...

Definitely would've taken a ready-made defender in the draft had Rance made his intentions known earlier. There were still a few there late that we overlooked.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Just kidding....enjoy!

I would like Balta to come in and play third forward. - Weritering and Jones(?) will have their hands full with Riewoldt and Lynch. Hopfully Martin forward for a lot of it too. - Balta would get away and kick 8 on who ever carltons third tall big is

Graham tagging cripps too for mine

 

[Marcel Proust]

Definitely would've taken a ready-made defender in the draft had Rance made his intentions known earlier. There were still a few there late that we overlooked.

Gould would have been nice...

oh well hopefully Dow turns into a superstar

 

[Not Important]

naish a possible in anyone?

 

[Del65166]

naish a possible in anyone?

ahead of Stack, JG, Ross? I'm thinking George to the wing, Stack up fwd. Graham & Ross might have to sit the first few games out. Unless the coaches want to freshen things up and give CJ, RCD, a newbie or 2 a run

 

[Lsta062]

102 goals 110 behinds is what we conceded in our 12 game winning streak post bye. So 8.75 goals and 9.16 behinds. Teams averaged 61 points against us in that period when the backline was together and settled the whole way I think.

177 goals 131 behinds is what we scored. 14.75 goals and more or less 11 behinds. We averaged 99 points for to show scoring conditions were not especially difficult on the whole.

In 2018 with Rance in the backline in 24 matches teams scored 256.199 against us, about 72 points on average.

In 2017 with Rance there the team averaged conceding similar in the low 70's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where I am going with this is to ask has the structure of the backline worked better in 2019 without Rance once it was fully stocked from round 15 onwards? And if so, why would that be?

I personally don't think it has to do with Rance the player. I think the issue is Rance the backline general, where it might have been a little bit all about him. So my submission would be that whoever was leading that backline in Rance's absence, presumably Astbury, should continue to do so. And Rance should play a role really no more prominent in the structure and chain of command than Vlastuin or Grimes did this year.

But in for me Rance(of course) Stack(of course) and any of Graham, Ross, CCJ, Balta, Naish, and any ready made recruit/s.

Out Ellis, and after that it gets tougher.

Curve ball trade deal: Only if the players are comfortable with this...go to GCS and offer Rance, Macintosh, maybe even Markov or Moore if they want them, along with Ellis of course. The immediate influx of hardened solid senior players and leadership is what they desperately need. And the fact all of those players come from one successful club should be helpful to them as well. In return we want the bloke who won the GF sprint yesterday - King, and/or another future gun. Use draft picks to equalise the deal.

Rance should theoretically love it, he is just what they need, high profile, high quality, leadership and he has the perfect beach boy looks to suit the Gold Coast, and can get a huge pay packet. Macintosh can get a decent wedge as well.

We benefit by starting to stagger the transition between Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Astbury, Edwards, Martin, Houli and the next group of quality players who lead the team. We clear some nice cap space to help with retention of all our good youngsters.

Gold Coast benefit from getting something meaningful into their club for the inevitable loss of one of these young guns, not just more high end draft picks.

The young gun benefits from coming to a brilliant club and fitting comfortably into the overall plan for us.

Well it turns out we would have been better off trading Rance if he permanently stays retired

 

[captain cotch 9]

If it wasn't for Graham.All likelyhood we wouldn't be celebrating our 12th.Would have been 2 men down in the last.Even against an ageing geesook it may have been too much.

Agree and Dimma does too.
he basically says so after the game against Geelong in the rooms

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Agree and Dimma does too.
he basically says so after the game against Geelong in the rooms

No doubt about it.Its not as if Graham is an accumulator of the ball so we didn't suffer that much.
Enabled us to keep the rotations going at a reasonable level to over run.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Looking back on the furore around my contributions in the earlier part of this thread gives me a bit of a chuckle now. I suggested the possibility of trading Rance and it is fair to say I wasn’t overwhelmed with support for the idea. Someone on another thread now joking he should have been traded to Carlton and f*ck that would have been seriously funny.

Anyway, now we have more or less our final list to work from, here are my thoughts surrounding our team for 2020.

I guess we revert to the GF backline setup as the default, and adjust from there according to form, development, injuries etc.

Broad Astbury Grimes
Short Vlastuin Houli

With Baker the 7th defender.

Balta(Astbury,) Garthwaite(Broad,Grimes) Mcintosh(Vlastuin,) Eggmolesse-Smith, Stack, Edwards(Houli, Short, Baker) look the six most obvious who can be moved into the backline as replacements. You could just about live with any of that bar Balta being the only option to play on the big bull forwards should Astbury miss matches. You would be a bit nervous at this stage of his career with him standing Hawkins, Franklin, Brown, Daniher etc if those guys were near their best.

We really needed to be bringing in another key defender in the trade period, and someone like Josh Walker as a spare might have given me a bit more reassurance. We have the SSP to identify someone there but I am struggling to think of any available player who could fulfil the role of backup key defender with any confidence. Nyuon is likely to be developed in the role but will be miles off AFL level, and the only other option I can really think of is Chol going back there, which is what I thought should have been done in 2019 when Rance was injured. Given Coleman-Jones looks ready to fill the position Chol played last year it would seem to make even more sense now but it does appear they have for some reason ruled Chol out of being a defensive option. When both Rance and Astbury missed last season v. Bulldogs, Crows and Cats opposition tall forwards Naughton, Bontempelli, Gowers, Hawkins, Ratugolea, Jenkins, Walker just feasted on us. When Rance and Grimes were missing v GWS then Cameron and Finlayson went seriously berserk. Any major injuries to Astbury OR Grimes we look in strife back there.

You would expect natural improvement from Balta and Garthwaite, and the latter should benefit also from a full pre-season, but other options are required and the loss of Rance could just straight out cost us a flag in certain scenarios.

The rest of the team looks overstocked with options and a lot might depend on how good Ross’s foot and Graham’s shoulder is.

My starting team:

Broad Astbury Grimes
Short Vlastuin Houli
Caddy Martin Bolton
Stack Riewoldt Rioli
Castagna Lynch Pickett

R: Soldo Cotchin Prestia

I/C: Lambert Nankervis Graham Edwards

Equally could slot in Ross, Baker.

Loads of other players to look forward to in 2020, Mcintosh, CCJ, RCD, Turner, Naish, Chol, Egg-Smith, Higgins, Balta, Garthwaite, the SSP/mid-season addition if we make one, and possibly some of the new draftees. God help us if we lose Astbury or Grimes though.

sounds like Short out of the backline for Balta?

good result

 

[Football Tragic]

sounds like Short out of the backline for Balta?

good result

Don't think they would go with Grimes, Ashbury, Broad and Balta all in the same backline. They trialed Broad on the wing so its more likely they will have Broad out if Balta plays back rather than Short. I don't think Balta will play in the same backline as Astbury and Grimes atm. Broad plays a lock down defender on talls and shorts so Balta would need to offer the same level as that immediately to take his spot. Vlaustin, Houli and Short are completely different players to Balta.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Don't think they would go with Grimes, Ashbury, Broad and Balta all in the same backline. They trialed Broad on the wing so its more likely they will have Broad out if Balta plays back rather than Short. I don't think Balta will play in the same backline as Astbury and Grimes atm. Broad plays a lock down defender on talls and shorts so Balta would need to offer the same level as that immediately to take his spot. Vlaustin, Houli and Short are completely different players to Balta.

Broad on a wing seems daft

 

[Football Tragic]

Broad on a wing seems daft

Not my idea - what the coaches were trialing. I'd rather see Pickett, Rioli, C-D, McIntosh rotated through there

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Broad on a wing seems daft

Maybe not so daft when you consider his speed, height and running ability. Not a great disposer of the ball but neither is Macintosh. Could quite probably do a job on the Steeleside Bottom’s of the world. Also maybe a good wing pairing as a defensive foil to the dangerous attacking play of Caddy. I can see some sense in this one. Whether the brains trust might want to be a bit more adventurous and flexible with the wingers remains to be seen, but you could see this working ok. Balta on the second tall as understudy to Astbo, Grimes on the third tall or dangerous midget forward. Then Vlastuin, Short, Houligan. Broad could slot back there to do a job if any of the first four missed matches. Stack, Baker two of several options to replace the runners back there if needed.

This type of plan would create an even greater logjam in the midfield and forward line though.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Maybe not so daft when you consider his speed, height and running ability. Not a great disposer of the ball but neither is Macintosh. Could quite probably do a job on the Steeleside Bottom’s of the world. Also maybe a good wing pairing as a defensive foil to the dangerous attacking play of Caddy. I can see some sense in this one. Whether the brains trust might want to be a bit more adventurous and flexible with the wingers remains to be seen, but you could see this working ok. Balta on the second tall as understudy to Astbo, Grimes on the third tall or dangerous midget forward. Then Vlastuin, Short, Houligan. Broad could slot back there to do a job if any of the first four missed matches. Stack, Baker two of several options to replace the runners back there if needed.

This type of plan would create an even greater logjam in the midfield and forward line though.

At 1st I was seeing your point with Broad, but then I questioned whether he could get enough ball to play wing. A winger needs to rack up possies. If you are suggesting he plays as a lock down winger, then that would definitely work. It might throw out the game plan alot though. Especially considering Ellis was the polar opposite of that role.
Broad nearly always has a possession tally in single digits. If he reduces a Gaff type from 30+ to under 20, but only gets it 7-8 times himself, with minimal impact, is that a win? It his opponent only gets 10, but again Broad has zero impact. I'd prefer Short, Stack, Edwards, Lambert, Bolton, Higgins and even Macca back before Broad.

Edit: after checking stats, he actually 50% of games had 10-20 possessions, so I may need to reassess!!!

 

[Andyy]

Don't think they would go with Grimes, Ashbury, Broad and Balta all in the same backline. They trialed Broad on the wing so its more likely they will have Broad out if Balta plays back rather than Short. I don't think Balta will play in the same backline as Astbury and Grimes atm. Broad plays a lock down defender on talls and shorts so Balta would need to offer the same level as that immediately to take his spot. Vlaustin, Houli and Short are completely different players to Balta.

I disagree, given that Grimes and Broad can play small comfortably.
Grimes, Astbury, Broad
Houli, Balta, Vlastuin

Baker and Short to rotate through.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Expect Garth to step up and take Broads spot soon. Couple of big Marsh games hopefully.

edwards grimes houli
garthwaite astbury vlastuin
short cotchin stack
costagna reiwoldt rioli
pickett lynch bolton
soldo martin prestia
baker lambert caddy nankervis

 

[Grechy]

Expect Garth to step up and take Broads spot soon. Couple of big Marsh games hopefully.

edwards grimes houli
garthwaite astbury vlastuin
short cotchin stack
costagna reiwoldt rioli
pickett lynch bolton
soldo martin prestia
baker lambert caddy nankervis

Garth punches the ball and offers virtually nothing after that. Can't kick, can't run with the football, can't do anything Broad can do besides spoil and intercept.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

At 1st I was seeing your point with Broad, but then I questioned whether he could get enough ball to play wing. A winger needs to rack up possies. If you are suggesting he plays as a lock down winger, then that would definitely work. It might throw out the game plan alot though. Especially considering Ellis was the polar opposite of that role.
Broad nearly always has a possession tally in single digits. If he reduces a Gaff type from 30+ to under 20, but only gets it 7-8 times himself, with minimal impact, is that a win? It his opponent only gets 10, but again Broad has zero impact. I'd prefer Short, Stack, Edwards, Lambert, Bolton, Higgins and even Macca back before Broad.

Edit: after checking stats, he actually 50% of games had 10-20 possessions, so I may need to reassess!!!

Not really thinking he plays 22 matches as a lock down winger. More like he is there as an option if you want to take a Hill, Sideginger or similarly important player out of circulation. Broad would likely monster those type of players in contests and could run with them. Who knows if he could also develop a bit more of a counter attacking game as well. The club is probably exploring all these sorts of possibilities given the surplus of players qualified to play existing roles.

 

[Vassp]

Centre...Rioli, Pickett, Edwards.
HF...Bolton, Riewoldt, Stack.
FF...Caddy, Lynch, Martin.

with some interchanging. How devastating that forward line will be.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Centre...Rioli, Pickett, Edwards.
HF...Bolton, Riewoldt, Stack.
FF...Caddy, Lynch, Martin.

with some interchanging. How devastating that forward line will be.

where does Lambert go

 

[Vassp]

where does Lambert go

Lambert can go to half back or swap with rioli