Changes for the 3rd Test

[wolmeister]

There young, fergo isn't.

If you based selection on a single test Mike Hussey wouldn't have had a test career. This series is gone.....there is nothing to lose by giving him another test.

 

[bird_man]

Bancroft is averaging 17 with a top score of 22 this year... He was also very average last year until very late in the season when a couple of big scores lifted his average (despite having an average in the 40's, he only made it passed 50 three times in 17 innings for the season)

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[Voice of the G]

We could select 2 batsmen if 45-50 was the benchmark. This was the benchmark of 10 years ago when the shield was a decent competition.

Maxwell averaged 50 plus last shield season and 80 odd last week in a shield game and as for being 12th man for Victoria 1st game,what a joke.Probally when we look at averages we should also consider how many shield players missing from these games and playing for Australia in other formats of cricket to.

 

[wolmeister]

Maxwell averaged 50 plus last shield season and 80 odd last week in a shield game and as for being 12th man for Victoria 1st game,what a joke.Probally when we look at averages we should also consider how many shield players missing from these games and playing for Australia in other formats of cricket to.

Are we talking about first class averages or season averages? Pretty sure Callum Ferguson averaged 50+ last season but most want him dumped after just a single test.

 

[Marstermind]

Not sure we can pass judgement on Maxwell in regards to inventing shots losing patience etc in test cricket with the low number of test matches he has played and I would think nearly all in Sri Lanka,India.

I absolutely agree. That's why I said it's the perception.

A common remark for a few players is "He's a good Shield player but he's not Test standard" or "He's not ready yet" and a line is put through him. Can't they pick someone who isn't the finish article yet but let him refine his game at the top level. Why wait until he's too old? Why not pick someone who might be and let him learn. Ponting, Hayden, S.Waugh, Langer, Martyn etc all got picked before they were ready, showed enough but couldn't hold their spot but their game improved and they came back better for the experience. If they think a Patterson or Bancroft or Maddinson or Handscomb will be good enough, let's have a look at them. I'd rather one of those guys getting single figure scores over a 37yo or a 32yo debutant who won't ever play more than a handful of games and won't ever be any better than they are now.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

If you based selection on a single test Mike Hussey wouldn't have had a test career. This series is gone.....there is nothing to lose by giving him another test.

What did Hussey average in first class cricket before he was selected. Getting selected averaging under 40 is ludicrous.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

So difficult to get a young player in. So many planets need to align. So many variables with the timing of matches.

There needs to be a test match on

There is a form/injury vacancy

The vacancy is in the exact role the young player plays

The young player is fit and healthy themselves

There have been Shield games for him to play in the lead up

He has been making runs during this time


It's almost impossible to get everything lined up in fact.

So you're saying Marcus Harris opens?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So you're saying Marcus Harris opens?

Not following sorry?

I'm saying if there is a young player annointed by the selectors as the next test player in waiting it is nigh on impossible to pick him.

 

[eth-dog]

Smokie for the opening spot: Marcus Stoinis.

 

[Bradesmaen]

This isn't afl. You pick the best team available. There is no mythical premiership to build towards. It's just win every game possible every year. Jesus Christ the infection of youth should not extend to cricket

 

[the_interloper]

Need to play O'Keeffe over Lyon, he's very good with the pink ball. Also Sayers comes in for Mennie, bit harsh on the one test but it's horses for courses. As for the batting, where do you start?

 

[wolmeister]

What did Hussey average in first class cricket before he was selected. Getting selected averaging under 40 is ludicrous.

Not too sure, but he had a quite a few average seasons. Are you talking first class career average or season average?

 

[bird_man]

What did Hussey average in first class cricket before he was selected. Getting selected averaging under 40 is ludicrous.

So who are you suggesting we pick?

Cameron White averages 40, does that put him ahead of Handscomb?

Most of the guys that have stronger averages are the older guys that have been able to improve their average gradually. Guys like Handscomb spent their early years with averages in the low 30's, but he has averaged almost 50 since the start of the 2014/15 season, so really, why do his scores before then really matter?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Not following sorry?

I'm saying if there is a young player annointed by the selectors as the next test player in waiting it is nigh on impossible to pick him.

I was being a bit of a smart arse.

Harris has 77, 115, and 75 this Shield season. There's a vacancy at opener.

In any event, it should be pretty easy to find a spot for any "anointed ones" right now.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Have the rule changes to Shield cricket made an impact?

Teams used to be content to play for 1st innings points at times on flat wickets. Now they have to move the game forward, score faster.

Batters taking more risks impacts their bottom line but also makes it easier for bowlers to get wickets. Bowlers don't have to make things happen.

Edit - I think the rule changes have made Shield cricket a lot more interesting and enjoyable. I'm just wondering if it's helping us produce quality test performers.

 

[wolmeister]

I absolutely agree. That's why I said it's the perception.

A common remark for a few players is "He's a good Shield player but he's not Test standard" or "He's not ready yet" and a line is put through him. Can't they pick someone who isn't the finish article yet but let him refine his game at the top level. Why wait until he's too old? Why not pick someone who might be and let him learn. Ponting, Hayden, S.Waugh, Langer, Martyn etc all got picked before they were ready, showed enough but couldn't hold their spot but their game improved and they came back better for the experience. If they think a Patterson or Bancroft or Maddinson or Handscomb will be good enough, let's have a look at them. I'd rather one of those guys getting single figure scores over a 37yo or a 32yo debutant who won't ever play more than a handful of games and won't ever be any better than they are now.

If you pick them before they are ready you need to be prepared to take the highs and the lows. By that I mean not dumping them after a couple of tests. You need to be prepared to stick with them.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

So who are you suggesting we pick?

Cameron White averages 40, does that put him ahead of Handscomb?

Most of the guys that have stronger averages are the older guys that have been able to improve their average gradually. Guys like Handscomb spent their early years with averages in the low 30's, but he has averaged almost 50 since the start of the 2014/15 season, so really, why do his scores before then really matter?

Cam White is the ideal No. 6 batsman. He should have been selected years ago.

 

[bird_man]

Cam White is the ideal No. 6 batsman. He should have been selected years ago.

He's in the form of his life at the moment, but do you really believe he should have been selected years ago when he was dropped from the Victorian side? If he wasn't good enough to be playing for Victoria, what makes you think he would have done the job for Australia?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I was being a bit of a smart arse.

Harris has 77, 115, and 75 this Shield season. There's a vacancy at opener.

In any event, it should be pretty easy to find a spot for any "anointed ones" right now.

Perfect example. Players in form get picked because the selectors can justify their inclusion.

Form is temporary, class is permanent. Form should be overlooked when making long term decisions about our test line up IMO. What should matter is the underlying quality.

 

[bird_man]

It's going to be a very interesting Shield round, sounds like most if not all of the Aus guys will be having a crack

 

[Run n Spread]

As I posted above long term needs to occur:

Out Burns, Ferguson, Voges, Lyon, Neville

In: Agar, Maxwell/Faulkner, Handscomb, Bancroft, Wade

 

[Marstermind]

If you pick them before they are ready you need to be prepared to take the highs and the lows. By that I mean not dumping them after a couple of tests. You need to be prepared to stick with them.

Yes. They will do some nice things and they'll do some dumb stuff and they'll get dropped and they'll be reselected. But If you're referring to Callum Ferguson you've missed my point. He's the 32yo debutant who won't get any better than he currently is and shouldn't have been selected in the first place.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

He's in the form of his life at the moment, but do you really believe he should have been selected years ago when he was dropped from the Victorian side? If he wasn't good enough to be playing for Victoria, what makes you think he would have done the job for Australia?

In short, I think he has the same quality Smith has. Grit. I don't know why he was dropped for Victoria. I think he's probably suffered from being pigeon holed a bit as a cricketer, first as a "not good enough leggie", then as a specialist short form batsman.

 

[the_interloper]

Cam White is the ideal No. 6 batsman. He should have been selected years ago.

He was, except it was as a legspinner ha ha. Think he got Tendulkar out in a test from memory though.

 

[wolmeister]

Yes. They will do some nice things and they'll do some dumb stuff and they'll get dropped and they'll be reselected. But If you're referring to Callum Ferguson you've missed my point. He's the 32yo debutant who won't get any better than he currently is and shouldn't have been selected in the first place.

I was referring to playing youth; I meant you need to be prepared to back them in for a few tests at least. On Callum Ferguson; I agree I would not have selected him. But the selectors have.....not much harm in giving another test in a series that is gone anyway. I just can't see 5 changes made to the team.