News Changes to Next Generation Academies

[Lore]

Statement: Update on NGA Concessions, Pre-Season Supplementary Selection Period, NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft

The AFL has provided an update on Next Generation Academy Concessions, the Pre-Season Supplementary Selection Period and the NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft.

www.afl.com.au

Next Generation Academy Concessions

From 2021, Next Generation Academies (NGAs) - targeting Indigenous and multicultural players - will be overseen by the AFL Talent Pathway program with support from AFL Clubs. As part of this change, the AFL Commission determined that the concession model for NGAs be revised to reflect this.

The following changes to the NGA concession model ahead of the 2021 and 2022 NAB AFL Drafts will be as follows:

• From 2021, nominated NGA prospects will only be eligible to be matched from Pick 21 in the NAB AFL Draft. All other players selected from Pick 41 onwards can be matched by their Club using their next available selection, while undrafted players are still eligible to pre-selected on the rookie list.
• From 2022, nominated NGA prospects will only be eligible to be matched from Pick 41 onwards by their Club using their next available selection, while undrafted players are still eligible to pre-selected on the rookie list.

This model allows for elite talent to be available to all AFL Clubs while still ensuring late prospects can find their way onto an AFL list and continue their relationship with the respective Club that has been supporting them.

A summary of changes can be found in the table below:

Round	Current	2021	2022
1st Round (Pick 1 – 20)	20% discount	No access	No access
2nd Round (Pick 21 – 40)	197 points	197 points	No access
3rd Round (Pick 41 - 60)	197 points	Use next available selection	Use next available selection
4th Round (Pick 61 +)	197 points	Use next available selection	Use next available selection
Rookie List	Any undrafted player	Any undrafted player	Any undrafted player

Statement: Update on NGA Concessions, Pre-Season Supplementary Selection Period, NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft

The AFL has provided an update on Next Generation Academy Concessions, the Pre-Season Supplementary Selection Period and the NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft.

www.afl.com.au

 

[JasRulz63]

I think you'll find that clubs that are experiencing success don't have a large turnover of players. Look at Brisbane now, compared to 6 - 7 years ago. So I think your comparison is flawed.

Not to mention if the top juniors had any inkling that they might want to stay in their home state, they'd just sign for one of those clubs as a 15/16yo. In the AFL, they put themselves into a pool and could get drafted anywhere.

So the players that eventually come to the Melbourne Storm are usually the ones less likely to leave since those that are have been selected out.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

My bad, calling it a bigger advantage for smaller clubs was my mistake.

What I meant was that the big clubs are more able to offer the opportunities lure players back from interstate so they're less reliant on the draft. Whereas the smaller clubs are more reliant on the draft (while still picking up players like Boyd), but being in Victoria, they are able to largely mitigate the "go home" risk by picking from Victoria without compromising on quality.

Worth considering that Vic players we draft move to other Vic clubs, whereas I think there's only been one player from the Queensland/NSW clubs that's moved to the other club in their state (Lyons). But overall, not as much of a drawback as the low talent pool from those states.

 

[ferrisb]

I’m all for parody across the league and this helps that.

I think Gil has introduced enough parody into the AFL

 

[ferrisb]

About time this gets watered down.

The NGA only ever had one real purpose. To shut up Vic clubs whingeing about Northern academies.

This was never really about nurturing talent from minority groups. Most NGA kids have been playing footy since Auskick.

Glad this is going.

 

[dumdum]

might as well get rid of NGA system as its gonna be useless next year onwards

 

[JasRulz63]

Worth considering that Vic players we draft move to other Vic clubs, whereas I think there's only been one player from the Queensland/NSW clubs that's moved to the other club in their state (Lyons). But overall, not as much of a drawback as the low talent pool from those states.

We've lost Rischitelli, Brennan and Hanley to Gold Coast over the years, and picked up Ah Chee from them.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

We've lost Rischitelli, Brennan and Hanley to Gold Coast over the years, and picked up Ah Chee from them.

Well there you have it, I'll stop showing my ignorance now.

 

[JasRulz63]

Well there you have it, I'll stop showing my ignorance now.

Brisbane and GC have generally worked quite well together when it comes to trades (including when we fleeced them two years ago with the pick swap). It's definitely not an Adelaide/Port situation when there'd rather watch each other suffer .

 

[longdonkey]

I think Gil has introduced enough parody into the AFL

So out of the last 10 premiership 2 teams have won 6 of them.

And 2/10 have been won by the 8 teams outside of Victoria.

Surely you are joking. You are - didn't see the wink!!

 

[BronCrow]

The requirements aren't different – they're allowed to recruit the sons of players who have played 100 games for their respective AFL Clubs. The 250/300 game players of their SANFL/WAFL affiliated clubs is an entering the league bonus, one that GWS and GC don't have any equivalent for at all (Bris have Roys and Syd have Souths obviously).

Yes they were. There was a requirement that those players had to have played those games for the those clubs within a certain time frame. With the Crows it was between 1970-1990, and 1977-1997 for the Power. Take Bryce Gibbs, who was a number 1 pick, the Crows couldn't select him because his father Ross hadn't played enough games for Glenelg in that time frame, despite playing enough total games for them.

 

[Lore]

Yes they were. There was a requirement that those players had to have played those games for the those clubs within a certain time frame. With the Crows it was between 1970-1990, and 1977-1997 for the Power. Take Bryce Gibbs, who was a number 1 pick, the Crows couldn't select him because his father Ross hadn't played enough games for Glenelg in that time frame, despite playing enough total games for them.

I think you've misunderstood me.

 

[BronCrow]

The development of Aussie Rules is coming a long way in Queensland (and New South Wales) with these academies, with a lot more success than the previous development programs. These clubs are incentivised by having access to these players, to reduce the "go home" factor by increasing the proportion of home grown players on their list. If you're going to take away that incentive, then the AFL can take over the funding and running of these academies (as they are with the NGAs).

Just taking an example from the Brisbane academy, Jack Payne represented Australia in discus throwing and also played rugby union growing up. He was scouted at age 13 and was invited to come and join the Lions academy, and about eight years later he was running out in a preliminary final.

Brisbane came very close to poaching Kalyn Ponga from the grasps of the NRL. He was involved with the Lions academy from age 15, and was about to sign a four year contract with Brisbane before Newcastle came along with a big bag of money. 10 years ago, I suspect playing in the AFL wouldn't have even registered on his radar.

Ponga is a unique case. He is a whizz at many different sports. At the time he was involved with Lions academy, he also had a scholarship with Brisbane Broncos and was then signed by the North Queensland Cowboys. He was also pursued by the Queensland Reds at the same time, as well as being an under age Golf champion, and quite and established hockey player.

I do take your point about Aussie Rules not being on his radar if he was growing up 10 years ago though. He was actually born in Port Headland though, as an aside.

 

[BronCrow]

I think you've misunderstood me.

In what way?

 

[BronCrow]

Look at Melbourne Storm, how many of their players are from Vic? Less of a % compared to any AFL club.

Yet they don't have an issue with it

How many born and bred Victorians have ever played in the NRL?

 

[Kwality]

Yes they were. There was a requirement that those players had to have played those games for the those clubs within a certain time frame. With the Crows it was between 1970-1990, and 1977-1997 for the Power. Take Bryce Gibbs, who was a number 1 pick, the Crows couldn't select him because his father Ross hadn't played enough games for Glenelg in that time frame, despite playing enough total games for them.

The Ross Gibbs decision remains puzzling to this day - I've often wondered about a link with the Judd deal to get the Blues relevant. Same beneficiary, similar regard for the rules.

 

[Kwality]

How many born and bred Victorians have ever played in the NRL?

Ewan McKenzie played for the Wallabies, does that count?

 

[BronCrow]

Ewan McKenzie played for the Wallabies, does that count?

I did state NRL, so probably not. Though fits the born and bred criteria.

I was trying to infer that the original post that I quoted was comparing apples and oranges as far as player retention goes.

 

[longdonkey]

The Ross Gibbs decision remains puzzling to this day - I've often wondered about a link with the Judd deal to get the Blues relevant. Same beneficiary, similar regard for the rules.

This all has to do with when the rules were devised. The AFL/VFL went to the SANFL and the WAFL and asked them how many players between these dates had played 300 games / 250 games / 200 games etc. Both leagues came back with the numbers. The AFL no doubt made the rule to be sure that WA and SA didn't get an advantage.
There were a similar amount of players who had played over 200 games in SA and 150 games in WA so they made the rule 150 games for WA and 200 games for SA.
After the rule was made it was found out that SA numbers total games played included pre-season and state games while WA numbers didn't.
The AFL then changed the rule so the state games and pre-season games are not included in the SA games total but the number of games needed did not change. Also SANFL games are not counted after the year the AFL club was formed. Anyway if the SANFL amount of games played was 150 games Bryce Gibbs would have been an Adelaide player. Brad Ebert

7

Brad Ebert

Age

35

Ht

189cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

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Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

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11.4

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HB

8.5

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4.6

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T

5.2

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G

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M

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3.8

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G

0.6

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D

12.0

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K

8.2

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HB

3.8

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.2

3star

and Shannon Hurn

25

Shannon Hurn

Age

37

Ht

187cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

15.7

5star

HB

5.2

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M

7.0

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T

1.6

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389.5

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D

16.1

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K

12.1

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HB

4.0

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M

5.3

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T

1.0

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MG

271.6

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D

19.0

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K

11.6

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HB

7.4

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M

6.8

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T

1.6

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would have been Port Adelaide players assuming they nominated. Theya re ones I can think of immediately.
This is a perfect case of what not to do as a Data Analyst - validate your data. Garbage in Garbage out

 

[briztoon]

Definitely not arguing for eradication of northern academies - Brisbane use them very well without getting ridiculous benefits like we've seen from Green, Blakey, Mills, Heeney, etc.

I just feel privileged access to the elite talent should be restricted

How does Brisbane use it very well?

We’ve the worst run academy out of the 4.

If any of “our” kids make it, it’s been largely off their own back, and not so much our academy’s doing.

Sure our academy has been able to funnel a lot of our better kids in to a better training program than what existed before, and provide them with a higher standard of competition, but there’s been some real problems and nepotism behind the scenes.

Hopefully this changes now, with a restructuring of our academy, and better development coaches joining our academy.

 

[Virgin Dog]

How does Brisbane use it very well?

We’ve the worst run academy out of the 4.

If any of “our” kids make it, it’s been largely off their own back, and not so much our academy’s doing.

Sure our academy has been able to funnel a lot of our better kids in to a better training program than what existed before, and provide them with a higher standard of competition, but there’s been some real problems and nepotism behind the scenes.

Hopefully this changes now, with a restructuring of our academy, and better development coaches joining our academy.

I'm basing it purely off results at the draft - the quality of kids coming out the back end of the draft via your academy. By comparison, Sydney have had a few stars fall in their laps (Heeney, Blakey, Mills) who would have gone among the top few picks regardless, but have little else. I won't claim to understand the inner workings otherwise, only the results

 

[briztoon]

I'm basing it purely off results at the draft - the quality of kids coming out the back end of the draft via your academy. By comparison, Sydney have had a few stars fall in their laps (Heeney, Blakey, Mills) who would have gone among the top few picks regardless, but have little else. I won't claim to understand the inner workings otherwise, only the results

Trust me, every Lions fan wants our academy pumping out a top 5 caliber mid every year.

We just don’t develop them for some reason.

 

[telsor]

Just need to find a way to keep incentivising them to develop that talent. Or at least stop the gaming of the system with points (can only match with a pick in the same round or something).

Something like this should have been brought in with the live trading of picks.

First pick used for the pts must be within 18(?) of the pick used to bid.

If you don't have such a pic, you can trade for one. (maybe allow a little bit of extra time in this case).

 

[telsor]

The requirements aren't different – they're allowed to recruit the sons of players who have played 100 games for their respective AFL Clubs. The 250/300 game players of their SANFL/WAFL affiliated clubs is an entering the league bonus, one that GWS and GC don't have any equivalent for at all (Bris have Roys and Syd have Souths obviously).

Not a 'bonus' per se, but rather an attempt to give an equivalent benefit.

The games limit was designed to provide a similar number of potential fathers to VFL clubs (so if the average Vic club had 200 players who had 100 games, they set the bar at a level that would provide around 200 players. The games limit was higher because they were including multiple 'source' clubs).

This was removed when the clubs own players started to get to the stage in life where their kids would be eligible. (really, it could have been a smoother changeover...)

 

[telsor]

The Ross Gibbs decision remains puzzling to this day - I've often wondered about a link with the Judd deal to get the Blues relevant. Same beneficiary, similar regard for the rules.

The rules were in place long before Gibbs entered the picture, so it's not like they changed it for him.

The idea with 'league' father son picks was always to provide new WA/SA clubs with a roughly equivalent number of potential father son picks to what pre existing clubs had.

If they'd had a wider timeframe (increasing the potential pool) they would have needed to increase the number of games played to qualify (to get the potential pool back to a similar number). Might that have worked out better for the crows as things turned out? Quite probably, but when the rules were made, that was the system agreed to.

Personally I think the idea was right, but the whole thing wasn't well handled. (e.g. league FS should have been gradually phased out as club FS became more likely), but the point remains that the system (and particularly Gibbs) was hardly a conspiracy by Vic clubs to keep interstaters down.

 

[JasRulz63]

Trust me, every Lions fan wants our academy pumping out a top 5 caliber mid every year.

We just don’t develop them for some reason.

I wonder if the ones that would make good midfielders get lost to other sports.