Changes vs Carlton

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

its also the horribly out of form 'stars' not performing means the young blokes playing thier first few games or coming off long term injuries need to carry the side over the line when the so called stars fail.

This seems to be the expectation set for a guy coming off a long term injury who hasnt even played 15 games...20 years old mind you....


go out there and turn this shithole around...

meanwhile...the perinial seasoned failures ...ho hum another under achieving day..

 

[PatientMental]

multiple slips because the players prefer moulds as opposed to what their coach prefers.

You are aware that the ground is too hard to successfully wear screw-ins right? They'd be slipping over more because it'd be like running on concrete in footy boots.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This seems to be the expectation set for a guy coming off a long term injury who hasnt even played 15 games...20 years old mind you....


go out there and turn this shithole around...

meanwhile...the perinial seasoned failures ...ho hum another under achieving day..

While in general I agree that we need to give kids a sustained chance to develop at AFL level, you're edging dangerously close to your old "let's drop Travis Boak and keep Matt Thomas because Matt Thomas is playing at his peak" argument.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This is rubbish....absolute rubbish excuse being put on our better players...

Our better players are just as bad sometimes worse than the newbies at stuffing up

its also the horribly out of form 'stars' not performing means the young blokes playing thier first few games or coming off long term injuries need to carry the side over the line when the so called stars fail.

That doesn't mean the guys coming into the side can just totally fail to have an impact several weeks in a row, though. Ultimately, we're trying to win football games.

Just because Travis Boak is at 80% output doesn't mean Sam Colquhoun can underperform and keep his spot. Boaky and co have some credits in the bank.

Picking Andrew Moore over the Hoon at the moment would benefit our side, because he's a big bodied blocker who can make space for our classier mids. He can perform a role even when we're struggling. Hoon and Gray offer very little when we're struggling. Neade is similar, but at least Neade offers a bit of crumbing and forwardline defensive pressure.

They just have to offer something. We've played too many guys this year who are very limited in what they offer, and because of game situations, haven't been able to fire a shot. Someone like Mitchell needs to the game to be going a certain way for him to have an impact. Gray and Hoon (at this stage of his development) are the same.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Colquhoun was lucky to come in the side based on his SANFL form but he was probably in our top half of players against the Cats, especially considering that he's a 20 year old in his first game back from a reco. Some of the crap written about his game by the 'whenever Moorey isn't in the team, all the other players should be asking Where's Moorey?' brigade is pretty disappointing. If we were adding an extra inside mid last week it would've been Ah Chee anyway.

Moore should and probably will come in this week but there are plenty of players who deserve to go out for him before Colquhoun.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Colquhoun was lucky to come in the side based on his SANFL form but he was probably in our top half of players against the Cats, especially considering that he's a 20 year old in his first game back from a reco. Some of the crap written about him by the 'whenever Moorey isn't in the team, all the other players should be asking Where's Moorey?' brigade is pretty disappointing.

He didn't do much that made him undroppable though. He just sort of existed. In terms of SANFL regulars who have been given a chance this year, he's in the middle of the scale with the likes of Mitchell and Gray. Not as poor as O'Shea or Redden, not as good as Krakouer or Clurey.

Based on that, i'd remove him for the bigger bodied Moore or Ah Chee based on the observation that we've been absolutely bullied out of the contest in every loss we've had this year bar Freo, and we look too small around the stoppages.

 

[Janus]

This is rubbish....absolute rubbish excuse being put on our better players...

Our better players are just as bad sometimes worse than the newbies

No, it's absolute rubbish that you think that the mistakes these guys make should be carried by other players. As I keep saying, when your best attribute is that you can hit a bog standard AFL pass and everyone applauds it because most of the time you kick like shit, something is seriously wrong with our selections. There is a psychology at work when guys like Sam Gray and Sam Colquhoun get selected over guys who are performing week in week out like Ah Chee. And that psychology is that it doesn't matter how poorly you play, as long as you have certain attributes that the selection committee needs, you'll be in the side.

Now this is fair enough if you want to go down the structure over skill path. And I'm sure our elite players can see the reasoning behind it. But then these same players can't even kick regulation kicks, kick out on the full, drop marks, kick to the boundary when other options are available to boost their disposal efficiency stats...it would make any player, even the most altruistic, wonder why these guys have been picked. So instead of actually following the game plan, they decide to take it on themselves and just clear the ball away from the area in the hope that something will happen, because they don't trust the players on the park anymore.

its also the horribly out of form 'stars' not performing means the young blokes playing thier first few games or coming off long term injuries need to carry the side over the line when the so called stars fail.

This isn't a creche. This is AFL football, the elite level of Australian Rules football in this country, and the guys who have been selected have all played their first game. Sam Gray? 7 games last year. Colquhoun? Played 10 games plus 2 finals games in 2013. Paul Stewart? 84 games. Aaron Young? 36 games. The only one you could make compensation for is Clurey.

If Colquhoun's injury was meant to cut him some slack, it doesn't. All it proves is that he isn't up to the standard required yet. What's easier: 17 players who are giving 95-98% effort all lifting up to finals intensity to cover for these five guys putting in 50% effort? Or those five players playing to at least 80% intensity? Why does a player, who is coming back from an ACL and has never made the top three best players this year in the SANFL as far as I'm aware, jump the queue for a position and then get a free pass while the other players have to carry them into form?

Look, if we had our best kit on the park, we could afford to carry one of these guys. We just can't carry five of them, which is why our performances are suffering. At least when you play the five next best players, and drop the ones that don't perform, there can be no dissent from within the team and everyone will just button down and give that little bit extra, as they did against Hawthorn, to make it work.

 

[PA88]

You are aware that the ground is too hard to successfully wear screw-ins right? They'd be slipping over more because it'd be like running on concrete in footy boots.

So I've heard. What are the visiting teams wearing? What is worn by the crows?

 

[Forzaport]

'whenever Moorey isn't in the team, all the other players should be asking Where's Moorey?'

Funnily enough, I think this is perfectly valid at the moment.

Was surprised to see Hoon selected but would be equally surprised if he was dropped now. Plenty of options available to make space for Moorey.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

No, it's absolute rubbish that you think that the mistakes these guys make should be carried by other players. As I keep saying, when your best attribute is that you can hit a bog standard AFL pass and everyone applauds it because most of the time you kick like shit, something is seriously wrong with our selections. There is a psychology at work when guys like Sam Gray and Sam Colquhoun get selected over guys who are performing week in week out like Ah Chee. And that psychology is that it doesn't matter how poorly you play, as long as you have certain attributes that the selection committee needs, you'll be in the side.

Now this is fair enough if you want to go down the structure over skill path. And I'm sure our elite players can see the reasoning behind it. But then these same players can't even kick regulation kicks, kick out on the full, drop marks, kick to the boundary when other options are available to boost their disposal efficiency stats...it would make any player, even the most altruistic, wonder why these guys have been picked. So instead of actually following the game plan, they decide to take it on themselves and just clear the ball away from the area in the hope that something will happen, because they don't trust the players on the park anymore.



This isn't a creche. This is AFL football, the elite level of Australian Rules football in this country, and the guys who have been selected have all played their first game. Sam Gray? 7 games last year. Colquhoun? Played 10 games plus 2 finals games in 2013. Paul Stewart? 84 games. Aaron Young? 36 games. The only one you could make compensation for is Clurey.

If Colquhoun's injury was meant to cut him some slack, it doesn't. All it proves is that he isn't up to the standard required yet. What's easier: 17 players who are giving 95-98% effort all lifting up to finals intensity to cover for these five guys putting in 50% effort? Or those five players playing to at least 80% intensity? Why does a player, who is coming back from an ACL and has never made the top three best players this year in the SANFL as far as I'm aware, jump the queue for a position and then get a free pass while the other players have to carry them into form?

Look, if we had our best kit on the park, we could afford to carry one of these guys. We just can't carry five of them, which is why our performances are suffering. At least when you play the five next best players, and drop the ones that don't perform, there can be no dissent from within the team and everyone will just button down and give that little bit extra, as they did against Hawthorn, to make it work.

Whos carrying who janus...besides wingard hombsch bobby and R gray ....the rest of the freaking team is being carried for long perioids of the game...it absolute nonsense to put the blame squarely on the newbies to all our mistakes fumbles etc...

the only reason your going off at the hoon and its painfully obvious is because of your hissy fit during the changes thread prior to the game...and you're desperately trying to justify it.. .

hoon might play like ass next week the week after get dropped whatever...and if that happens you carry on with a song a dance how you were right and everyone else is wrong like you usually do...but this week he was far from worst.

 

[ozph1870]

No, it's absolute rubbish that you think that the mistakes these guys make should be carried by other players. As I keep saying, when your best attribute is that you can hit a bog standard AFL pass and everyone applauds it because most of the time you kick like shit, something is seriously wrong with our selections. There is a psychology at work when guys like Sam Gray and Sam Colquhoun get selected over guys who are performing week in week out like Ah Chee. And that psychology is that it doesn't matter how poorly you play, as long as you have certain attributes that the selection committee needs, you'll be in the side.

Now this is fair enough if you want to go down the structure over skill path. And I'm sure our elite players can see the reasoning behind it. But then these same players can't even kick regulation kicks, kick out on the full, drop marks, kick to the boundary when other options are available to boost their disposal efficiency stats...it would make any player, even the most altruistic, wonder why these guys have been picked. So instead of actually following the game plan, they decide to take it on themselves and just clear the ball away from the area in the hope that something will happen, because they don't trust the players on the park anymore.



This isn't a creche. This is AFL football, the elite level of Australian Rules football in this country, and the guys who have been selected have all played their first game. Sam Gray? 7 games last year. Colquhoun? Played 10 games plus 2 finals games in 2013. Paul Stewart? 84 games. Aaron Young? 36 games. The only one you could make compensation for is Clurey.

If Colquhoun's injury was meant to cut him some slack, it doesn't. All it proves is that he isn't up to the standard required yet. What's easier: 17 players who are giving 95-98% effort all lifting up to finals intensity to cover for these five guys putting in 50% effort? Or those five players playing to at least 80% intensity? Why does a player, who is coming back from an ACL and has never made the top three best players this year in the SANFL as far as I'm aware, jump the queue for a position and then get a free pass while the other players have to carry them into form?

Look, if we had our best kit on the park, we could afford to carry one of these guys. We just can't carry five of them, which is why our performances are suffering. At least when you play the five next best players, and drop the ones that don't perform, there can be no dissent from within the team and everyone will just button down and give that little bit extra, as they did against Hawthorn, to make it work.

im all for wholesale changes with underperforming stars, same with those younger that dont take the opportunity when its presented to them. dropping a 'star' isnt the end of the world, it should be a temporary thing while they get some much needed form back. not sure what game peope were watching but hoon played alright on friday night, unless you were one of those that were sitting there waiting for any mistake, all players make mistakes, all players turn the ball over, its part of the game. id make a bunch of changes this week, from seasoned players to ones who have only played a few games.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Will there be a meltdown if O'Shea leapfrogs Ah Chee and Moore as a tall on baller?

 

[*PAF]

I think not enough is being said about both Ebert and Wines being too worried about the third man up at stoppages on too many occasions. What we were really lacking is leadership and that mucked up our game.

Not the Boak type leadership, but a couple of older wise heads to remind players what their primary task is and not go into panic mode.

Singling out players or scapegoats is not going to fix anything.

 

[FishingRick04]

Compared to who/what?

Just his first come back game in general. Plenty of requests stating he should be dropped. I thought his first game back was very serviceable for his role. Which I see is that link man role always providing an option. So not really compared to anyone.

 

[RossFC]

Does anyone really believe that Kern will make 4 - 6 changes?

InB4

OUT: Clurey, Young
IN: O'Shea, Mitchell

 

[Janus]

Whos carrying who janus...besides wingard hombsch bobby and R gray ....the rest of the freaking team is being carried for long perioids of the game...it absolute nonsense to put the blame squarely on the newbies to all our mistakes fumbles etc...

the only reason your going off at the hoon and its painfully obvious is because of your hissy fit during the changes thread prior to the game...and you're desperately trying to justify it.. .

hoon might play like ass next week the week after get dropped whatever...and if that happens you carry on with a song a dance how you were right and everyone else is wrong like you usually do...but this week he was far from worst.

If you think this is me 'going off' at Colquhoun then you must have a really thin skin. All I'm saying is that he didn't justify his selection over other players this week. I was quite happy to get behind Ah Chee, Moore or Mitchell based on their performance in the SANFL, because they had been consistent. He's also coming back from an ACL. I never said he was the worst, I said he didn't do enough to not get dropped if the coaches want to look at someone else. But I'm not saying to drop him because you don't bring in a player for one game and that's it.

As for me trying to justify my 'hissy fit'...pretty sure our performance on Friday proved me right. The season was on the line, and we coughed it up because the coaches want to stubbornly play the same way with players that have half the talent. And yes, I'm including Andrew Moore in that. When things go wrong, you don't keep playing the same way and try to fit a smaller round peg into the gaping hole you have left behind. You throw it out and you find a square peg to fit your square hole.

Will there be a meltdown if O'Shea leapfrogs Ah Chee and Moore as a tall on baller?

Nah, I'm actually expecting it. Ken is stupidly stubborn with his 'more speed' mantra because he can't accept that he ****ed it up during preseason. Which is good in a way because it means he's got that bloody minded belief in his game plan. And he won't let it go until the players actually play the way he wants them to so he can see that it doesn't work. That's what his '7 out of 10 are getting it right' thing is all about - he's using the fact that 3 players aren't doing their job as the reason why it's falling down.

Where I come from, 7/10 would get you a pass mark. If you need to play perfect football to make it work, it's no game plan that is going to sustain under finals pressure.

 

[Forzaport]

Will there be a meltdown if O'Shea leapfrogs Ah Chee and Moore as a tall on baller?

There's so much meltdown potential this week.

Waiting for Sam Gray to hold his spot.

 

[simmo_bc]

I think it is time to get the 'Grunt' band back together:
2015 is not over but we got to give the following some game time

Moore IN - let him prove he is worthy of a starting midfielder. Grunt and size
Young STAYS - turn him into a half fwd/fill in mid. Grunt and a goal kicker
Ah Che IN - keep him in the side all year. Grunt and skills

Out: Gray, Stewart and White

I like it.. Keep Young in, give him some confidence.. With Moore, we need to see if he has a future at the club, has had plenty of chances.

 

[port09]

InB4

OUT: Clurey, Young
IN: O'Shea, Mitchell

If this happens then we are ****ed.

 

[FishingRick04]

There's so much meltdown potential this week.

Waiting for Sam Gray to hold his spot.

I didn't mind Sam Grays game tbh.

 

[Nemisis]

If you think this is me 'going off' at Colquhoun then you must have a really thin skin. All I'm saying is that he didn't justify his selection over other players this week. I was quite happy to get behind Ah Chee, Moore or Mitchell based on their performance in the SANFL, because they had been consistent. He's also coming back from an ACL. I never said he was the worst, I said he didn't do enough to not get dropped if the coaches want to look at someone else. But I'm not saying to drop him because you don't bring in a player for one game and that's it.

Where I come from, 7/10 would get you a pass mark. If you need to play perfect football to make it work, it's no game plan that is going to sustain under finals pressure.

Amongst all your ranting - you are actually making some sense.

 

[Janus]

I didn't mind Sam Grays game tbh.

Now you're just taking the piss.

 

[port09]

Im sick to death of the same spud ins every ****ing week....

 

[FishingRick04]

I'm not actually. He's first half was ok watching on the replay.

I'm more concerned with the inconsistent put put of Jonas, Ebert, Boak, Schulz and Westhoff to name a few.

I'm. Also more concerned with our game plan which has no continuity to the structure and method.

I'm. Also.more concerned about our fitness and lack of run.

If dropping SAM Gray will.fixed that I'm all for it but I suspect not.

 

[ozph1870]

Will there be a meltdown if O'Shea leapfrogs Ah Chee and Moore as a tall on baller?

there will be a meltdown no matter who gets dropped or who gets picked.