Changes vs Carlton

[Forzaport]

Sensing a massive melt all round tonight...

Almost guaranteed.

Moore non-selection, O'Shea coming in off 1 good game, S.Gray holding his spot, Amon playing SANFL, so much potential.

 

[Janus]

Your argument is essentially:

"Young fringe players have no excuse to turn the ball over because they're not working as hard because the senior players are working harder because the young players are turning it over" - a long bow to put it lightly. Then, when presented with pretty simple facts that dispute this, your argument has turned into:

"The senior players are also working harder and are turning the ball over because they have different roles"

Why are you excusing leaders and experienced players and being savage and ruthless on the role players/kids?

Those three guys are senior (and young) players. One of them spat the chewey after getting beat all day. One gave away two goals through poor errors. One failed in his role to stop their direct opponent - albeit that was due to physical limitations.

And yet here we are, debating whether or not a loss is the fault of a kid coming in for his first game who played quite admirably - or a bunch of under performing senior players.

As an aside - those players are under performing not because of the last three guys picked causing errors, but because the game plan they're being asked to play has been fundamentally found out, thus, the game plan failing has destroyed their confidence and they are mentally shot. Port don't have an ability to change the game plan due to fundamental structural and list issues which have not been accounted for. Namely, a decent key position forward, a decent around the ground ruckman and more pace in the midfield.

My argument is that when you are selected to play for an AFL side, the thought is that you have demonstrated AFL level skills. That doesn't mean turning the ball over under little to no pressure because you can't hit a regulation pass. If you can't acknowledge the difference between playing in the midfield and playing on a half back flank when it comes to the effect that it has on disposal efficiency, I can't help you.

When Wines gets the ball and just hacks it out of the stoppage to get it out of the area, why do you think that is? Is it because he wants to work twice as hard and have the ball returned with interest? Or is it because, as I have repeatedly stated, he doesn't trust the guys around him - guys who aren't prepared to run hard, spread and do the unrewarded stuff - to make the right decision? Because they have made mistakes before?

Young players making mistakes under pressure is fine. Young players missing easy kicks and not doing the team care things in an attempt to boost their stats is not. No one is blaming an individual player. I said at the start that the problem is having to carry five average players in the side that haven't demonstrated the reason why they were selected other than getting a gold star for participation.

Colquhoun wasn't the worst, and I'll be surprised if he's dropped. But perhaps our midfield wouldn't have been so erratic had the coaches played another mid like Ah Chee who could block for them or an elite runner like Mitchell who would have at least made his mistakes forward of the ball instead of in the defensive/wing area where the midfield has to push back to cover for mistakes made when they had already pushed forward to attack.

As for our ganeplan being "found out", I just want one week where the players actually all run and spread for the entire game and do the unrewarded stuff instead of trying to boost their possession count. Do that, and if it doesn't work, then you can talk to me about it being found out. Until that time, the only thing that is being found out is our players and the lack of trust they have in each other...and that comes back to the fringe players making fundamental mistakes under minimal pressure. QED.

 

[Jonts]

I know at st kilda the colour indicates what intensity you've been told to train at(based off gps data, what your feeling ect ect)
One colour is 60-80%
The other is 80-100

 

[powermacs]

Hammer on MMM, Trengove in, Krak likely.

 

[Lefti93]

Hammer on MMM, Trengove in, Krak likely.

WHAT ABOUT MOORE???? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE MOORE!

 

[PowerBaz]

Sensing a massive melt all round tonight...

So out Wingard and In Mitchell like meltdown!

 

[Adz2332]

Out: Stewart - Clurey - S Gray - White

In: Moore - Trengove - Mitchell - Krakouer

is what i want

 

[Steve Dore]

Almost guaranteed.

Moore non-selection, O'Shea coming in off 1 good game, S.Gray holding his spot, Amon playing SANFL, so much potential.

 

[Janus]

Almost guaranteed.

Moore non-selection, O'Shea coming in off 1 good game, S.Gray holding his spot, Amon playing SANFL, so much potential.

I think you've overestimated our ability to care anymore. The time for meltdowns was last week, and they were proven true.

This week, we just accept whatever happens with a sense of resignation and a shrug of the shoulders.

 

[BornPort]

Almost guaranteed.

Moore non-selection, O'Shea coming in off 1 good game, S.Gray holding his spot, Amon playing SANFL, so much potential.

 

[DazzaTys]

Out: Stewart - Clurey - S Gray - White

In: Moore - Trengove - Mitchell - Krakouer

is what i want

What you'll get.

Out: Schulz Westhoff and hombsch
In: Mitchell Neade and Stewart.

 

[x_les_x]

Out: Stewart - Clurey - S Gray - White

In: Moore - Trengove - Mitchell - Krakouer

is what i want

I agree and that sounds sensible, however that's why it's not going to happen..

 

[ScooterBrother]

My argument is that when you are selected to play for an AFL side, the thought is that you have demonstrated AFL level skills. That doesn't mean turning the ball over under little to no pressure because you can't hit a regulation pass. If you can't acknowledge the difference between playing in the midfield and playing on a half back flank when it comes to the effect that it has on disposal efficiency, I can't help you.

I'd agree that Young fell into that category - and perhaps Gray. But no blame for that loss should be placed at the feet of Colquhoun. Nor do I believe for one second that the exact same sort of errors wouldn't occur if Moore, Ah Chee or Amon played instead of Young, Gray and Colquhoun. With those type of fringe players, it really is a case of half a dozen in one hand, 6 in the other.

The overall point is there are major issues with the senior players. They're not performing. And it's got next to nothing to do with perceived poor performances of fringe players.

When Wines gets the ball and just hacks it out of the stoppage to get it out of the area, why do you think that is? Is it because he wants to work twice as hard and have the ball returned with interest? Or is it because, as I have repeatedly stated, he doesn't trust the guys around him - guys who aren't prepared to run hard, spread and do the unrewarded stuff - to make the right decision? Because they have made mistakes before?

Sure, I'd agree there is a lack of trust. I'd also agree that this is because players have made mistakes and caused turnovers which has cost Port goals. Where we differ is that I don't think you can put that lack of trust squarely onto players 18-21 when players 1-21 are all at fault, and some of the players 1-5 are amongst the worst.

Young players making mistakes under pressure is fine. Young players missing easy kicks and not doing the team care things in an attempt to boost their stats is not. No one is blaming an individual player. I said at the start that the problem is having to carry five average players in the side that haven't demonstrated the reason why they were selected other than getting a gold star for participation.

Colquhoun wasn't the worst, and I'll be surprised if he's dropped. But perhaps our midfield wouldn't have been so erratic had the coaches played another mid like Ah Chee who could block for them or an elite runner like Mitchell who would have at least made his mistakes forward of the ball instead of in the defensive/wing area where the midfield has to push back to cover for mistakes made when they had already pushed forward to attack.

So you're saying for the Geelong game:

OUT: Young, Colquhoun, Gray
IN: Moore, Ah Chee, Mitchell

... and you honestly reckon those selection changes would've made one iota of a difference?

I reckon if Port played with those players, in three weeks time when yet another team blocked the corridor, dropped numbers behind the ball and the senior players didn't lift that you'd argue to bring in Young because Mitchell has spudded it up. And that's my point, those blokes (aside from Moore - but he's hardly Gary Ablett) have all played before - and Port have struggled to beat the Roo's midfield flood.

As an aside, Aaron Young and Sam Gray played in the Geelong thumping last year.

As for our ganeplan being "found out", I just want one week where the players actually all run and spread for the entire game and do the unrewarded stuff instead of trying to boost their possession count. Do that, and if it doesn't work, then you can talk to me about it being found out. Until that time, the only thing that is being found out is our players and the lack of trust they have in each other...and that comes back to the fringe players making fundamental mistakes under minimal pressure. QED.

Agreed. But I think it's not only the fringe players that are making fundamental mistakes under pressure, but the whole team, and I think that is mostly to do with the game plan being overly reliant on space in the midfield. A game plan which was designed as such ... because of Port's lack of marking ability in the forward line.

 

[AdsGoNads]

Out: Stewart - Clurey - S Gray - White

In: Moore - Trengove - Mitchell - Krakouer

is what i want

THIS will happen.. and we'll absolutely pants the Blues.

 

[Janus]

I'd agree that Young fell into that category - and perhaps Gray. But no blame for that loss should be placed at the feet of Colquhoun. Nor do I believe for one second that the exact same sort of errors wouldn't occur if Moore, Ah Chee or Amon played instead of Young, Gray and Colquhoun. With those type of fringe players, it really is a case of half a dozen in one hand, 6 in the other.

The overall point is there are major issues with the senior players. They're not performing. And it's got next to nothing to do with perceived poor performances of fringe players.

Sure, I'd agree there is a lack of trust. I'd also agree that this is because players have made mistakes and caused turnovers which has cost Port goals. Where we differ is that I don't think you can put that lack of trust squarely onto players 18-21 when players 1-21 are all at fault, and some of the players 1-5 are amongst the worst.

So you're saying for the Geelong game:

OUT: Young, Colquhoun, Gray
IN: Moore, Ah Chee, Mitchell

... and you honestly reckon those selection changes would've made one iota of a difference?

I reckon if Port played with those players, in three weeks time when yet another team blocked the corridor, dropped numbers behind the ball and the senior players didn't lift that you'd argue to bring in Young because Mitchell has spudded it up. And that's my point, those blokes (aside from Moore - but he's hardly Gary Ablett) have all played before - and Port have struggled.

As an aside, Aaron Young and Sam Gray played in the Geelong thumping last year.

Agreed. But I think it's not only the fringe players that are making fundamental mistakes under pressure, but the whole team, and I think that is mostly to do with the game plan being overly reliant on space in the midfield. A game plan which was designed as such ... because of Port's lack of marking ability in the forward line.

I think we are at the point with injuries where you stop being cute with selections and just pick the next best players regardless of where they play. That way, you don't give the remaining players an excuse in thinking there is someone better because they know there isn't. Look what happened when Gray pulled out injured against Hawthorn and we didn't have Wines - you had everyone doing their job because they knew they had to. Since then, the coaches have mistakenly believed that the players can recapture that form and all they have to do is tinker around the edges. When the reality is that the only reason why they performed so well is because they wanted to prove that they weren't one or two players away...provided the next best players were selected.

Don't underestimate the psychology of selections and the problems it can cause when those selections don't prove themselves. Pick the best players who are in form, and you don't give the others an excuse to be poor.

 

[Forzaport]

I think you've overestimated our ability to care anymore. The time for meltdowns was last week, and they were proven true.

This week, we just accept whatever happens with a sense of resignation and a shrug of the shoulders.

I guess we'll find out in 40 mins.

 

[BrockBlitz]

Out: Stewart - Clurey - S Gray - White

In: Moore - Trengove - Mitchell - Krakouer

is what i want

I'll take Hoon out too plz - not fussed who comes in. Ach or neade most deservedly, O'shiz most likely

 

[PAFCsince1870]

If Mitchell comes in Ken and co are just trolling.

 

[Quadzilla]

I'll take Hoon out too plz - not fussed who comes in. Ach or neade most deservedly, O'shiz most likely

After just one week in after knee recon and rehab and 5 SANFL games?

 

[Nelso]

5 changes this week according to channel 10

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

5 changes this week according to channel 10

Interesting to see if it is true

 

[Adz2332]

Promising!

 

[John the Butcher]

5 changes this week according to channel 10

Jeepers!

 

[Quadzilla]

We need be trying to settle the team ... unless both Ryder and Jacko in ... 5 !!! faaaak

so I'll go ...

IN...Neade, Mitchell, Jacko, Moore/Ahchee, Harvey
OUT...White, Stewart, Young, Clurey, S Gray

 

[badbeats]

Ryder will not be in, club has said lots of time - after the bye

SGray, White, Stewart, Colquhoun and Young out are possible