Cheating versus not cheating - your call

[Carmo]

Here's some possible scenarios of cheating in the AFL, pls answer whether you think they are cheating yes or no and how does adelaide fare in respect of that aspect.

1) The fixture

Is collingwood / AFL cheating? Given a clear correlation between footy dept spending and success, the fixture that helps collingwood recieve a great deal of revenue is surely unbalancing the competition. Shouldn't the AFL actually suffer a bit of lost revenue to give the lower rating teams some exposure??

2) Free agency - given 1) surely that will negate the draft, they can buy in players.

3) Third party deals - given the majority of AFL media is based in Vic its a lot easier for the players of those clubs to get media deals. Giving motivation to leave in 2) and join a vic club. Plus there's the VISY deal to judd, how fair was that, just after it was done was said another one like it wouldnt be allowed, now its been stopped, read between the lines.

4) MCG hosting the grandfinal, advantage for vic sides much?

5) Father son rule?

6) Tanking - Melb, Carlton, Collingwood, WCE to name a few. Wasnt cheating because it never happened. Wasnt cheating cos its not against the rules, though if that's the case why even bother to investigate Melb?

7) Beneficiaries of priority picks - see part 6). If it was so fair why did we dismantle it?

8) Cost of living allowance for Sydney? Brisbanes was removed. Figures show that Sydney's living cost isnt the highest. Should only apply to the lowest paid players cos the highest can well and truly afford to live in Sydney.

9) Cyril Rioli's conduct in the draft?

10) Luke Ball conduct in the draft?

11) Ben Cousins / WCE - if nothing else the substances he was taking suppress the appetite and that little bit less weight to carry across a game of AFL and across a season would have been a help.

12) Grants to bottom clubs - if all the other clubs manage to stay afloat but these ones dont isnt that just their fault, shouldn't they dig themselves back out or leave the competition? Didnt collingwood actually get one of these handouts several years ago.?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Eating's cheating

 

[Cap]

it really doesn't matter

we got caught cheating the system

No one has ever suggested the AFL is consistent.

 

[jenny61_99]

No but I think the point trying to be made is that cheating at some level occurs by all clubs at some stage. What about players who manipulate umpires? Or umpires who unfairly umpire games? we are not a club that systematically rorts the system. If we are classed as cheaters, then we are in good company. Go over every other clubs books with forensic auditing and let's see what comes up. Haven't seen any offers from other clubs to have this done.

 

[Wright Away]

The big question is, is beating cheating? Cause if it is I've done a whole lot of cheating.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Trigg might have accidentally taken a pen home from work once and forgotten to return it.

That's like stealing

 

[Carmo]

I guess my main points are that what is and isnt cheating is not as black and white as some people would have it.

Secondly, that if we took in all the cheating in inverted commas that Adelaide's done versus what the other clubs have, then im pretty sure we are the straightlace schoolyard nerd.

 

[rayven]

one day the guy next to me in an exam leaned over and showed me what the answer was to a question i had been procrastinating over for 10 minutes. when I got my results back, he was wrong.

 

[Stripple]

None of thoes examples result in loss of draft picks and a 300k fine. The undo button on solitaire is cheating but its bit in the same leauge as saying howdy do to your neighbour while your wife is away.

 

[Geoffa32]

I have no issue with our cub cheating. I wish Trigg would own up to it and stop the embarrassment the denial carries with it.


Playing by the "rules" get you no where, we need to get better at bending the rules though. Given we are the club most hurt by the AFL's new expansion clubs (AKA Demetriou's personal vendetta against thugby), and the fact Adelaide as a city is not a desirable place for player to relocate (unless there is no other option) we need to do everything we can to keep our players.


Now of course the big clubs dont cheat do they. Just that the day to day living expenses of the players are taken care of by the club. Of course the club providing meals (to follow a strict diet of course), a work phone and lease car, overseas trips for a "training" camp and other small items are ok. When you add these small items up the money the players dont spend of these items can be considerable in a year. Is this not salary cap rorting.


The system is flawed and the only way you can get ahead is to bend (or cheat) the rules. It happens. We need to get better at it.

 

[Harris Pilton]

Cheating is inherent in the game. That's accepted. But if you get caught, you wear it. That's also accepted.

Here's another hypothetical scenario. You have a required player who doesn't really want to renew his contract. His heart is elsewhere. You say to him "We think we're on the cusp of something big here, and you're an integral part of our plans. We will pay you handsomely if you sign on for another two years, and at the end of that time, if you still want to leave, we'll do whatever is in our power to get you to whichever club you want to go to." Is that legal?

 

[Geoffa32]

Would giving a player the captaincy to keep him at the club constitute cheating?

 

[magtrev]

No but I think the point trying to be made is that cheating at some level occurs by all clubs at some stage. What about players who manipulate umpires? Or umpires who unfairly umpire games? we are not a club that systematically rorts the system. If we are classed as cheaters, then we are in good company. Go over every other clubs books with forensic auditing and let's see what comes up. Haven't seen any offers from other clubs to have this done.

That's some Lance Armstrong levels of delusion right there

 

[Huntercrow]

Your only cheating if you get caught!

 

[rayven]

That's some Lance Armstrong levels of delusion right there

Armstrong didn't just cheat to win, he had a much bigger picture in mind. Hence why his doping got him further than all the other dopers.

 

[icrow32]

There is a difference between an unfair advantage and cheating. All those things listed are an unfair advantage for one reason or another, what the crows and Trigg did was cheating regardless of what Trigg sees when he looks in the mirror.

 

[FR0GGY]

Your only cheating if you get caught!

Also didn't this deal go down in a different postcode?

 

[dav3]

Would giving a player the captaincy to keep him at the club constitute cheating?

Wow..... You can't even help yourself on your own board

 

[Apsaalooke]

We did a deal to keep our own player don't forget. We didn't poach players, we didn't tank, we didn't dope our team, we didn't convince potential draftees to mislead other clubs in order to get to us, we didn't hand out brown paper bags full of cash - all of which have been done by others without punishment (except Carlton) and are worse than simply giving an incentive to your own player to stay.

Sure we got caught through being stupid and duly got punished, but its shoplifting not murder.

 

[Geoffa32]

Wow..... You can't even help yourself on your own board

Good point.

This board does not regularly take pot shots at the rival across the road. We use Bay 13 for that.


Sorry if I offended any of the regular posters of this board.

 

[cmndstab]

We did a deal to keep our own player don't forget. We didn't poach players, we didn't tank, we didn't dope our team, we didn't convince potential draftees to mislead other clubs in order to get to us, we didn't hand out brown paper bags full of cash - all of which have been done by others without punishment (except Carlton) and are worse than simply giving an incentive to your own player to stay.

Sure we got caught through being stupid and duly got punished, but its shoplifting not murder.

You're right except for the bolded point. We might not have put the cash in a brown paper bag, but we did redirect sponsorship money to Tippett, expressly for the purpose of giving him a larger contract without having to actually take all that money from our cap. It's the same thing.

 

[jenny61_99]

You're right except for the bolded point. We might not have put the cash in a brown paper bag, but we did redirect sponsorship money to Tippett, expressly for the purpose of giving him a larger contract without having to actually take all that money from our cap. It's the same thing.

No we didn't.

 

[Apsaalooke]

You're right except for the bolded point. We might not have put the cash in a brown paper bag, but we did redirect sponsorship money to Tippett, expressly for the purpose of giving him a larger contract without having to actually take all that money from our cap. It's the same thing.

Don't know that we did, but even so at least tippett had to do some stupid ads to get the extra money. Carlton dished it out for just playing footy.

Its clear that the AFL wanted to jump on us hard. The long drawn out negotiations for a largely expected outcome were all about having the penalty reduced by threatening to blow the lid on all the other clubs doing the same thing or worse.

 

[cmndstab]

No we didn't.

Well, actually, can this be cleared up for me? Because I'm still not clear on this.

As far as I'm aware, we pleaded guilty to all (nine) allegations, some of which pertained to money going from Balfours to Tippett. I assume then that we were alleged to have involved ourselves in the deal inappropriately, without receiving some kind of acceptance from the AFL first. Is that right?


Meanwhile, the media speculation has been that we arranged this sponsorship deal as part of Tippett's payment. Effectively, we pay him $X less than he wants, but then he gets a knock on the door a week later from a sponsor who just happened to have $X lying around he wants to spend on Kurt.


Now it's the stuff in between I really don't know about. Was the above part of the nine allegations? Was it thrown out altogether? I have no idea because the club hasn't even mentioned it once since the commission.

If I've mispresented them I apologise.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No we didn't.

D'oh!

Chapman: "Sorry Your Honour. I meant not guilty."