Coach Clarkson has left the building

[H00t]

Risk v Reward of a 4th round pick, you do the Scully and Patton trades every time.

No one was to know Scully’s family situation would deteriorate to the point that he’d retire, nor did anyone know Patton would come undone due to some unforeseen sexting/harassment scandal.

And take anything Kornes has to say about Chad with a huge grain of salt, considering the history there with him and his brother.

I think a big reason of why Patton and Scully was such a bad idea was it let GWS off the hook salary cap wise. Sure the AFL would have given them some wiggle room but if they are still on the list other players are able to shake free that we might have been able to pick up.

Though luckily it was probably a big part of us missing Cogs which turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

They were nothing pick ups and even if we got them for absolutely nothing was not the direction the club should have taken. They weren’t going to take us anywhere.

 

[Milkshaker]

Add Vickery to the mistake list as well. Its not great reading.

However, when you consider the following additions:

Burgoyne: Stuffed knees
Gilham: Moneyball
Guerra: Hawks his third club
Gibson: In an out of North side
Hale: Could not get a game at North
Frawley: Talent questioned
Lake: Question marks over fitness and desire

I can sort of see why we rolled the dice again. Big Boy was the one that I thought was a big win that came from left field. Did not have any baggage apart from being regarded as a future Saints captain.

 

[MrPremiership]

Why are these trades still being brought up?

Does any other club in 17th get so much analysis?

 

[Billyc]

Cornes is a jerk and relishing in our situation, but he's right about our list management over the last 5 years. It's why we are down the bottom on the ladder. It's hardly new ground though.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think a big reason of why Patton and Scully was such a bad idea was it let GWS off the hook salary cap wise. Sure the AFL would have given them some wiggle room but if they are still on the list other players are able to shake free that we might have been able to pick up.

Though luckily it was probably a big part of us missing Cogs which turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

They were nothing pick ups and even if we got them for absolutely nothing was not the direction the club should have taken. They weren’t going to take us anywhere.

So easy to say in hindsight.

 

[MrPremiership]

So easy to say in hindsight.

These trades were well supported in the media at the time.

They're also conveniently missing that the trades of Scully/Patton were for peanuts, and leaving out the "successful" trades like Scrimshaw for a 4th rounder.

 

[H00t]

So easy to say in hindsight.

I thought it at the time also. Any player with the injuries those two had is a long shot to ever get back to what they were.

 

[TheFourPillars]

The trades for scully and patton were a no brainer at the time

 

[Lickmesocks]

Kane corned has doubled down on Clarko saying his recruiting is the reason we are where we are. He is making it out as tho Clarko overrides everyone with the clubs recruiting and decision making.
He has called-
Wingard fail
Mitchell fail- can’t believe he would think pick 15 for Mitchell was a fail.
Omeara fail
etc

imagine what he and Caro will be like tonight!!!!

 

[deanc]

These trades were well supported in the media at the time.

They're also conveniently missing that the trades of Scully/Patton were for peanuts, and leaving out the "successful" trades like Scrimshaw for a 4th rounder.

Just media pundits making comments to create content purely for contents sake - which is really no different than a group of us at the pub over a few beers debating what could of been, what was, the whys and how's...?

Case in point, I like most were astounded at the time when the club moved heaven and earth to draft a washed-up player on one leg called Burgoyne - who could of just a easily become another on Harry Hindsight's 'Vickery' list...?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Kane corned has doubled down on Clarko saying his recruiting is the reason we are where we are. He is making it out as tho Clarko overrides everyone with the clubs recruiting and decision making.
He has called-
Wingard fail
Mitchell fail- can’t believe he would think pick 15 for Mitchell was a fail.
Omeara fail
etc

imagine what he and Caro will be like tonight!!!!

I don’t know why people listen to what Cornes has to say. Same for Barrett.

People need to stop giving them clicks.

 

[Pessimistic]

Now, now fellas.. shake hands and make up ;-)

Clarko doesn't owe the Hawks a thing, yet he is resolute to honour his obligations regardless of the manner in which he is being retired.. #Respect. How many other coaches would do the same? Worsfold's rants of press conferences led me to believe he was a very angry man. Instead, Clarko, who will probably be remembered much more as a Hawk than a Roo, has publicly declared an ongoing dedication in circumstances that, well, if I were in them, I can't say I would be so honourable!

Is it Clarko's time at the coaching helm of Hawthorn? Well, it depends on your outlook; for me it was at the end of the 2017 season where I thought there were similarities to Sheedy at Essendon creeping in - something I hadn't thought of previously. However, if you asked me today, I may not be so sure.. Not that I don't think at the end of 2017 things weren't looking rosy, but, apart from this latest development, with his back against the wall in terms of a bottom 2 side, would it be enough to kick him into gear and get back on track?

What irks me about all of this is not that Clarko has been given his marching orders, although, as Hawthorn owes him far more than he owes Hawthorn, I would have preferred it more on his terms as to how to end it (based on what I have seen in the press.. and from c. 16,000km away, that is all I have to rely on except for this most illuminating board). It is the succession plan..

It seems, Kennett et al have got into their head Sam Mitchell is to be the next coach, come what may. If you look atr Clarko's legacy, it isn't just 4 grand finals (including the three-peat).. it is much more. His willingness to impart his knowledge and style on others, I would contend have led to at least another 5 GFs; Footscray (et. Western Bulldogs) x 1, West Coast x 1, and Richmond x 3; all coaches that are prodigees of Clarko. And Brisbane has had a decent crack.. All coaches were assistants under Clarko.. and all took personnel with them (off and on field), but importantly, they all took a bit of Clarko with them, too.

Bevo, Simpson, Dimma, and Pops were all identified as potential serious coaches outside the halls of Hawthorn. And, so too was Bolton (well, at least by Carlton). I don't see the same accolades being accorded to Mitchell (admittedly, I may be missing something). An, to be honest, I don't see him doing anything special with Box HIll.. We're an OK list and we're OK on the ladder.

My concern as a Hawks member is that, while it has been identified that Clarko's time is up (which is up for debate itself), some dipship has decided that Mitchell is the successor without due process to determine who would be the best successor. It may well be Mitchell, but it may be someone else. Cast your mind back to the race to replace Schwab (at least I think it was Schwab). It came down to Ayres (championed by Brereton from memory), and Clarko (championed by Dunstall).. It was a due process, and, although I think Ayres would have made a fantastic coach, I think the better coach won. We are denied the ability to determine who is the best, and it appears el-presidento has decided in his own mind (which seems to have some shortcomings) who is best ahead of everyone else.

My recollection of historical events may be blurred (you can thank a fine Yarra Valley wine for that tonight), but I am clear on the sentiment..

You seem to have uncovered the main flaw in succession plans. But with such plans generally, doesn’t the heir apparent have to compete with the market when the moment of truth comes?

 

[Lickmesocks]

Just media pundits making comments to create content purely for contents sake - which is really no different than a group of us at the pub over a few beers debating what could of been, what was, the whys and how's...?

Case in point, I like most were astounded at the time when the club moved heaven and earth to draft a washed player on one leg called Burgoyne - who could of just a easily become another on Harry Hindsight's 'Vickery' list...?

Scully Patton and Vickers have been massive fails.

Forget the free hits re draft picks and free agency.

All came on big coin and gave us sweet FA.

 

[Pessimistic]

Risk v Reward of a 4th round pick, you do the Scully and Patton trades every time.

No one was to know Scully’s family situation would deteriorate to the point that he’d retire, nor did anyone know Patton would come undone due to some unforeseen sexting/harassment scandal.

And take anything Kornes has to say about Chad with a huge grain of salt, considering the history there with him and his brother.

so a big part of Burgoyne coming to hawks was cliques at the power. So thanks corney kane

 

[Pessimistic]

Even with the pass fail ratio of mature recruits, which as highlighted was better just after 2010 than since 2016.
And in the same years having a circa 40% success rate with draftees - the afl average despite having bugger all elit draft picks generally.

if the club (and no on but Kane argues the coaches anywhere have the amount of influence he’s claiming Clarko has) continues i]this philosophy, and the ratios are maintained, we will be successful.

yes, I’m perfectly happy for 1-2 mature recruits via trade etc this year and next, alongside draftees.

but think on this. Cornes is using 17th spot on the ladder as ‘proof’ of poor recruiting. Don’t take omeara mitchell wingard (and henderson etc) but still lose Cyril, hill, later smith and where are th hawks right now, no matter how talented the draftees are?

still pretty much 17th

 

[Beandip]

Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

is the definition of the term "cognitive ceiling".

Guy is so desperate for PA to be relevant, keep on waiting mate, one day.

 

[Pessimistic]

If we continue our strategy, not intentionally heading down the ladder, but ending up there once ever 15 years, then so be it. I’ll take that any day

 

[deanc]

Scully Patton and Vickers have been massive fails.

Forget the free hits re draft picks and free agency.

All came on big coin and gave us sweet FA.

OK, although 'big coin' is debatable - but I'll see your Vickery, Scully and Patton and raise you Guerra, Gilham, Croad, Dew, Hale, Gibson, Burgoyne, Lake, Frawley, McEvoy and Mitchell....

Vickery - drafted as fill-in/replacement for Roughy who was fighting cancer. Probably should of paid the club for wasting our time, so in terms of 'big coin' being 'any coin', I agree...

Scully - his busted ankle/s were not expected to ever fully recover and GWS just wanted to get the highest paid player they had at the time off their books. Also wanting to return to Vic, I'd be shocked if we paid him more than 500k and some petrol vouchers.

Patton - unloaded by GWS (along with about 4 others) to help reduce their TPP. Highly unlikely GWS and/or Patton were in any position to demand 'big coin' - but given he was obviously made of glass and did little when he was fit enough to actually play, see Vickery.

 

[Hawker1167]

During one of Clarko's interviews he did say that his coaching career was coming to an end at Hawthorn, but I got the feeling that there was an emphasis on the word coaching as opposed to Hawthorn. I've got a sneaking suspicion that there may be some other appointment in the Hawthorn system waiting when he hangs up the clipboard .... Has anybody else sensed this???

agree I noticed that myself

 

[Hawker1167]

I don’t know why people listen to what Cornes has to say. Same for Barrett.

People need to stop giving them clicks.

this bloke just has a negative outlook on everything, he played negative football, he bailed on his team mates to join the fire brigade but couldn’t hack that either and walked away - negative, irrelevant person actually like he entire family really

 

[Carl Spackler]

Kane corned has doubled down on Clarko saying his recruiting is the reason we are where we are. He is making it out as tho Clarko overrides everyone with the clubs recruiting and decision making.
He has called-
Wingard fail
Mitchell fail- can’t believe he would think pick 15 for Mitchell was a fail.
Omeara fail
etc

imagine what he and Caro will be like tonight!!!!

Ah, now they exact their revenge. Make them look foolish for rumour mongering and they'll make you look incompetent. Sigh.

 

[Opens positions]

"WHY HAWTHORN MUST SEPARATE ALASTAIR CLARKSON FROM THEIR LIST MANAGEMENT"

Kane's headline, well I'll say it and totally agree with this.

 

[deanc]

"WHY HAWTHORN MUST SEPARATE ALASTAIR CLARKSON FROM THEIR LIST MANAGEMENT"

Kane's headline, well I'll say it and totally agree with this.

Dear Mr Cornes,

"WHY THE MEDIA MUST STOP THIS ILLUSION THAT IT HAS EVER HAD OR WILL HAVE ANY TANGIBLE INFLUENCE ON THE AFL OR IT'S CLUB'S OPERATIONS!"

Will you and your other media buffoons ever concede that as a platform you are simply glorified spectators and more often than not merely considered by all clubs as predominantly 'outside noise'...

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Risk v Reward of a 4th round pick, you do the Scully and Patton trades every time.

No one was to know Scully’s family situation would deteriorate to the point that he’d retire, nor did anyone know Patton would come undone due to some unforeseen sexting/harassment scandal.

And take anything Kornes has to say about Chad with a huge grain of salt, considering the history there with him and his brother.

What’s the history?

 

[hawkman]

I wasn't wrong last week, everyone at Hawthorn has changed their opinion in the last week so it looks like i was wrong - Caro